Joe, I did not know that Jolas could also be philosophers. You waxed quite philosophical there, towards the end. I don't generally agree with Jolas, especially of the AIDS-curing-claim types, but I do agree with you especially on this one. Baba On Sun, Feb 24, 2013 at 1:19 PM, Joe Joe <[log in to unmask]> wrote: > Lamin, I think as a Lawyer it is acceptable to represent the likes of > Mamburay Njie, just like a doctor would have treated him if he were > tortured. That is the professional side of persons and the oath they took > as members of a profession. As much as the world hated Idi Amin (worst case > scenerio), however, when he was sick and later comatose, doctors who were > aware of the carnage he levied on humanity treated him and even tried to > prolong his life even though he terminated the living with no sweat. Yes, > Mamburay was aware of violations of protected liberties of his fellow > citizens, but he still deserves the cover or due process under the law. > Problem is Yaya is the law in Gambia. I would even argue further that as > individuals (friends, relatives, etc.) we can sympathize with Mamburay. > > It gets dicy when we enter the realm of a liberation struggle. That is > where a concerted effort must be exercised in fighting against anyone who > consciously sided with our oppressor. If the luck for the Mamburays of this > world run out and they are now the caged, we would empathize with them as > humans, Gambians, friends, etc., but I would not incur a massive headache > over their affair. History taught us that had it not be for the change of > fortunes, they'd be right there endorsing and co-signing all sorts. So, > Lamin the activist stand on solid ground to not bat for friends or > jettisoned friends of our oppressor. However, Lamin the Legal Practitioner > should use his services to rescue the Mamburary's, despite. Good Lawyers > are not measured by taking a bunch of slam dunk cases, but those that > change lives and outcomes. If you rescue Mamburay from the jaws of the > beast, you give him a second chance at life and self determination. > > I know there are those that think your enemy's enemy should be your > friend. Not necessarily and it all depends. If your enemy's enemy has a > hidden agenda contrary to your aspirations it is ill advised to view them > as such. If that enemy also was on your side and later decided to mortgage > their soul for their wallet it is ill advised. If that enemy is still > partial to your enemy it is foolish to consider them a friend. And if that > enemy has plans to hijack an effort, they should not be allowed skew it to > their favor when we know the selfish nature of that individual. > > Joe > > ------------------------------ > Date: Sun, 24 Feb 2013 14:13:12 +0000 > From: [log in to unmask] > Subject: Re: [G_L] BAIL IN GAMBIA AND SOUTH AFRICA > To: [log in to unmask] > > Joe > > My query is more generally based, i.e., whether you consider it acceptable > for Gambian lawyers to represent the likes of Mamburay Njie whose > antecedents as employees of Professor Jammeh suggest they have no respect > for even the protected liberties of their fellow citizens. > > > > LJDarbo > > ------------------------------ > *From:* Joe Joe <[log in to unmask]> > *To:* [log in to unmask] > *Sent:* Saturday, 23 February 2013, 23:49 > *Subject:* Re: [G_L] BAIL IN GAMBIA AND SOUTH AFRICA > > Lamin, I have no doubt that Mamburay would be in good hands with your > services and I will say go for it. Lawyer Camara is doing what he could > given the situation he is put in. In a level playing field he is more than > capable of holding his own and with you representing, the sweeter. The deck > is stacked against him and it is him against what Yaya Jammeh wants. Look, > D15,000,000 bail is too damn excessive even if there was a charge against > Mamburay. We know he did not kill a fly? We also know he did not steal from > Yaya? The only thing left that they could have in store for Mamburay is > espionage, which is the "Poster Charge" in their arsenal these days. By the > time they end up wasting his time, all they would do is line up some crooks > in the shape of khelifa to organize a baalou session. This among many other > examples is the reason why Gambians need to wake up from the nonsense they > are engaged in. Where are all those that lined up daily to receive a > trickle down from Mamburay? His fellow top of the food chian gang? They > have all moved on to greener pastures or have new friends. And yes, "His > Friends in the Legal profession" that he used to patronize, where are they? > > I am sure Mamburay knows what's up. He drank Ataya with Yaya and heard all > the horror stories of what he did to people or what he can do to his > perceived enemies. Mamburay has 18 years worth of evidence to know that no > matter how long you hang around Yaya, your day will come, and it will be > either at the hands of Yaya or the Gambian people. Each one of them had > plenty of opportunity to deal with Yaya, but they had convinced themselves > they knew Yaya and mistake those Afra sessions for friendship. No, the dude > gives them plenty to eat and drink and be watching them when they are not > looking. Remember, Yaya said he can read people's minds. His insane mind > convinces him that he is really reading minds. In my neck of the woods, it > is called paranoia. It does not help when people around Yaya are paralyzed > with superstitious beliefs in Yaya's Super Natural powers. Remember the > witchcraft assault, even some political party leaders spoke as if there are > indeed witches in Gambia and couched it under the pretext that "The > Population" believes in the existence of witchcraft. My question to them > then and now is, what the hell do you believe? > > Back to the subject at hand, yes, you are more than capable of > representing Mamburay or people in similar circumstances and you should > consider that and you will have the support of everyone. Our brothers and > sisters in the legal profession need to know that they got in the > profession to be of service to the people and not only the government, or > should I say Yaya Jammeh. You got my support 100% - Go for it. That is what > it means to go and work for your people, not work for Yaya Jammeh as some > schemers want us to believe. > > Joe > > ------------------------------ > Date: Sat, 23 Feb 2013 16:45:58 +0000 > From: [log in to unmask] > Subject: Re: [G_L] BAIL IN GAMBIA AND SOUTH AFRICA > To: [log in to unmask] > > Joe > > South Africa's rectification process continues, and yes, economic ability, > i.e., mainly black-white divide, remains quite a significant factor in many > issues South African. Of course I am in complete agreement with your > assertion that "Gambians must no break their lunch for a heavy heart" for > Mamburay. > > In the instant case, my query is limited to whether a D15 million bail in > circumstances where no charge was preferred accords with the reasonableness > standard of the 1997 Constitution. Mamburay's is part of a long line of > cases and I think the issue of bail must go higher up the judicial chain of > command for a clarification of the constitutional expectations. > > Who is representing Mamburay and his ilk when they got into trouble? The > dynamic Lamin Camara of course, but I am in no doubt they kept him at a > distance when all was going well for them. This means no government briefs > for him because he would have been regarded as a troublemaker. Where are > the lawyers they used to patronise with government briefs? Like some family > and friends, they are seeking greener pastures elsewhere as, in their > calculations, Mamburay's useful life in our public space is effectively > over. They reckoned without considering the 'comeback' syndrome! > > Although I have no political sympathies for Mamburay and his ilk, I'd be > more than happy to offer him the best possible representation before a > criminal court if my services are required by people similarly situated, > including of course ...... What do you think? > > > > LJDarbo > > > > > > ------------------------------ > *From:* Joe Joe <[log in to unmask]> > *To:* [log in to unmask] > *Sent:* Saturday, 23 February 2013, 0:53 > *Subject:* Re: [G_L] BAIL IN GAMBIA AND SOUTH AFRICA > > Lamin, a good contrast indeed. In SA they have a functioning Judiaciary > but that has not always been the case, other wise Apartheid would not have > lasted that long. The Boers dictated who went in and who stayed out. Post > Apartheid, I will say that their Judiaciary is functioning for the "West" > insisted that, that be the case to support the survival of the whites. So, > the bail of 73,000 pounds I presume is according to precedent and the rest > of the world is watching. Now, I am certain that if he was black and poor > without a high flying legal team that he would have ate breakfast at home. > It is not yet a color and class blind society. > > In Gambia, a different beast in its own right, that is not the case. The > Judiciary is not functional and one man and one man alone rules - Yaya. He > says you stay and you not only stay but the enablers will intepret that you > rot in there. So, if Yaya dictates D15,000,000 then that it will be. > Remember Hassan Touray of Pristine? When the original bail amount was > easily tendered, it got jerked up. For what its worth, that is why America > and its claims of democracy, loves to deal with Dictators - they are One > Stop Shop, all you cand carry. > > Now transitioning to Mamburay. As an associate of Yaya for a long while, > he has seen many people in his current shoes and some rotted or died in > jail. Did he feel their pain? Did he stand up to defend their rights? Did > he protest the many murders, abductions, mutilations, ect.? Did he quit in > protest? Injustice by Yaya on Gambians did not just start when Mamburay was > in jail, oh no. Our people lived with it the last 18 years and he was aware > of it, yet he continued to collect a pay check. Now that he is in, must > Gambians break their lunch for a heavy heart? A people that take the daily > bread so serious that not even the murder of their loved one will stop a > family from seeking benovelence (crumbs) from their murderer - Yaya. I > don't think so. I have noticed a pattern with our folks. Mambaray being a > likeable guy as a youngster and may be ran the streets with some in Banjul > and Sere Kunda, folks tend to paint a rosy picture of him and even go to > the extent of absolving him of anything that is wrong with Yaya and his > gang. Folks, Mamburay is not a worthier son than Chief Manneh, the > students, and the countless that perished in the hands of his former > friend. Yes, an injustice to one Gambian is an injustice to all Gambians. > As they say, Mamburay warronaa soraleh neh besam di nah nyow. He also knew > that if his friend took him in all will be about their business, Com Nagne > Kor Dan Defeh Rek Bam Nekeh Chi Kerr You Baaxhi, as Ndoe Secka used to quib. > > Disclosure - Do I know Mamburay? Without a doubt. We played soccer > together and against each other and I know the family very well and it > pains me like many Gambians to see his rights abused. However, others > rights were abused too when he was in a position to have the ear of their > Abuser. Did he do anything about the countless things that happened while > he was there? It is an irony that Imam Baba Leigh's brother hung with > Mamburay and today the brother lost both a brother and a friend at the > hands of a common abuser - Yaya. No one could have predicted that in the > lives of these people. Life does not owe any of us zilch. Things are > temporal. Will Mamburay's faith persuade others behind to wake up, not a > fat chance. As we speak, Uncle Nana (to some) have stepped up his game on > the brownies. Lamin, this is between friends - Yaya and Mamburay and am > sure Kelifa Yhi are doing their rounds scheming a baalou ceremony. What > else is going on that we need to talk about? > > Joe > > ------------------------------ > Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2013 20:33:10 +0000 > From: [log in to unmask] > Subject: [G_L] BAIL IN GAMBIA AND SOUTH AFRICA > To: [log in to unmask] > > OSCAR PISTORIOUS South African > > South African sports icon > killed a human being > charged with premeditated murder > BAIL SET AT Sterling £73,000 (estimated) > > > > MAMBURAY NJIE Gambian > Cabinet Minister / senior civil servant (until recently) > allegations unknown/unspecified/speculative > charged with no offence > BAIL SET AT Sterling £300,000 (estimated) > > > Any suggestions/reactions on the bail regime in The Gambia? > > > > > LJDarbo > ¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤ To > unsubscribe/subscribe or view archives of postings, go to the Gambia-L Web > interface at: http://listserv.icors.org/archives/gambia-l.html To Search > in the Gambia-L archives, go to: > http://listserv.icors.org/SCRIPTS/WA-ICORS.EXE?S1=gambia-l To contact the > List Management, please send an e-mail to: > [log in to unmask]¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤ > ¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤ To > unsubscribe/subscribe or view archives of postings, go to the Gambia-L Web > interface at: http://listserv.icors.org/archives/gambia-l.html > To Search in the Gambia-L archives, go to: > http://listserv.icors.org/SCRIPTS/WA-ICORS.EXE?S1=gambia-l To contact the > List Management, please send an e-mail to: > [log in to unmask]¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤ > > > ¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤ To > unsubscribe/subscribe or view archives of postings, go to the Gambia-L Web > interface at: http://listserv.icors.org/archives/gambia-l.html To Search > in the Gambia-L archives, go to: > http://listserv.icors.org/SCRIPTS/WA-ICORS.EXE?S1=gambia-l To contact the > List Management, please send an e-mail to: > [log in to unmask]¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤ > ¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤ To > unsubscribe/subscribe or view archives of postings, go to the Gambia-L Web > interface at: http://listserv.icors.org/archives/gambia-l.html > To Search in the Gambia-L archives, go to: > http://listserv.icors.org/SCRIPTS/WA-ICORS.EXE?S1=gambia-l To contact the > List Management, please send an e-mail to: > [log in to unmask]¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤ > > > ¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤ To > unsubscribe/subscribe or view archives of postings, go to the Gambia-L Web > interface at: http://listserv.icors.org/archives/gambia-l.html To Search > in the Gambia-L archives, go to: > http://listserv.icors.org/SCRIPTS/WA-ICORS.EXE?S1=gambia-l To contact the > List Management, please send an e-mail to: > [log in to unmask]¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤ > ¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤ To > unsubscribe/subscribe or view archives of postings, go to the Gambia-L Web > interface at: http://listserv.icors.org/archives/gambia-l.html > > To Search in the Gambia-L archives, go to: > http://listserv.icors.org/SCRIPTS/WA-ICORS.EXE?S1=gambia-l To contact the > List Management, please send an e-mail to: > [log in to unmask]¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤ > ¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤ To unsubscribe/subscribe or view archives of postings, go to the Gambia-L Web interface at: http://listserv.icors.org/archives/gambia-l.html To Search in the Gambia-L archives, go to: http://listserv.icors.org/SCRIPTS/WA-ICORS.EXE?S1=gambia-l To contact the List Management, please send an e-mail to: [log in to unmask] ¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤