Thanks Suntou, well, history major or not LJD came across as well read on these issues and that seems good enough to make a great history student... I would think there is a lot of parallel or correlation between law and history... Ain't they always dealing with XYZ case, rulings and implications.. Its hard for me to keep up with all the readings in law thus my first attempt was law school and I ran away before incurring the debt... Give me numbers in terms of money and I will deal with that NOT the scientific ones... I leave the Mathematics and calculus to Yero... On a more serious note I enjoyed LJD's analysis of the Kenya situation and it did touch on so many interesting angles including the Pan African Syndrome that many of our young African leaders claim to represent - Which is far from the truth... Thanks All for the inputs.. Demba On Thu, Mar 7, 2013 at 2:32 PM, Bolonba <[log in to unmask]> wrote: > Haruna, LJ's response is both revealing and educative. Thanks LJ for the > response. Demba a good question. I learn that, LJD's first academic love > was history. They said he graduated with flying colours with a BA honours > in history before venturing into law. I may be wrong but this is what I > heard. Suntou > > Sent from my iPhone > > On 7 Mar 2013, at 01:13, Haruna <[log in to unmask]> wrote: > > Thank you JDAM and Demba for this conversation. Very revealing. > > Haruna. > > -----Original Message----- > From: Lamin Darbo <[log in to unmask]> > To: GAMBIA-L <[log in to unmask]> > Sent: Wed, Mar 6, 2013 6:21 am > Subject: Re: [G_L] Jombo Kenyatta's son Uhuru Kenyatta Possible New > President - of Kenya??? > > Demba > > Thanks, and you do have a very searching mind yourself. > > Your query re Obama is significant in that the US President is the son > of the man who was maltreated, blacklisted, and economically starved to a > frustrating early death by the father of Uhuru Kenyattta, Kenya's potential > president. Obama is aware of his father's plight in the hands of the elder > Kenyatta, and actually included some of the narrative in his book Dreams > From my Father (1995). > > Uhuru Kenyatta, second son of Jomo Kenyatta by fourth wife and widow, > and political heir of Kenya's founding Prime Minister, and first President, > carries a lot of baggage. The Kenyatta name is well recognized and comes > with tremendous prestige. The elder Kenyatta did some good for Kenya, and > was a larger than life figure in the Africa and Kenya of the liberation > struggle and early independent era. Nkrumah and other continental > personalities were his political contemporaries. As you would guess, I am > not detained by the romantic school of Pan Africanism for if that alone > must be our source of pride, we will forever remain a childlike people > (What do you think of China building the headquarters of the AU in Addis > after some fifty years of the founding of the continental organisation? Or > Frnce keeping the 'peace' in Mali when the AU is alive and well?). > > Regrettably, he also represented everything you are fighting against in > the Gambia today. He was an autocrat who gave himself extended powers and > in the process indulged heavily in every type of repression and political > criminality, including murders of dissidents and prominent opponents. He > was utterly corrupt and encouraged the syndrome as a way of maintaining a > tight stranglehold on Kenyan public life. His family is quite wealthy and > Uhuru Kenyatta is himself reportedly worth some £350 million pounds. To > think that the son of such a person is banging at the gates of Kenya's > executive mansion is itself an exemplification of the immaturity at the > heart of African public life, not to mention the dilemma, through time, > of legitimizing the illegitimate, and legalizing the illegal. All of the > elder Kenyatta's murders, and massive corruption, are now matters of mere > academic interest. > > Life can be quite strange! > > > > LJDarbo > > > > ------------------------------ > *From:* Demba Baldeh <[log in to unmask]> > *To:* [log in to unmask] > *Sent:* Wednesday, 6 March 2013, 0:11 > *Subject:* Re: [G_L] Jombo Kenyatta's son Uhuru Kenyatta Possible New > President - of Kenya??? > > Thanks a million LJD.. excellent perspective on the potential Kenyatta > election to the Presidency... I think you nailed the major points on > this... I would further wonder how President Obama will react to the > Kenyan people who freely elects a President with fewer or no violence > clashes reported as oppose to the case five years ago... > > As you noted, his election will present a diplomatic nightmare for the > West but I think as we have seen they are very smart in ignoring > issues that favors their economic and political interest... even if > they disagree... > > It is also interesting how US could hand over someone for prosecution > to the ICC that they don't recognize their citizens to be prosecuted > in the first place. I also ask could Kenyatta in fact be a US or > British citizen... I think Kenya allows dual citizenship??? > Interesting diplomatic times for the UN governing body as well.!!!.. > > > Thanks Lamin always for the enlightening take on issues. > > Regards > > Demba > > On Tue, Mar 5, 2013 at 3:37 PM, Lamin Darbo <[log in to unmask]> > wrote: > > Demba > > > > If Uhuru Kenyatta is elected president, his ICC indictment for crimes > > against humanity will present a diplomatic minefield to the international > > community. Kenya is quite a significant country and is home to one of the > > UN's four major global office complexes, and headquarters of its > > Environment, and Habitat, programmes. > > > > It is also a vital centre of operations against international terrorism, > > meaning that the US and its European partners are likely to tread very > > carefully in the event of Kenyatta's election. Given Kenya's strategic > > location and proximity to the 'terrorist' flash points in Somalia and its > > environs, diplomatic calculations will likely take primacy in western > > national security concerns. > > > > From a purely legal perspective, the Rome Statute does not recognize > > sovereign immunity, meaning that Kenyatta can be arrested and flown to > the > > Hague to answer charges of crimes against humanity, one of the three > crimes > > currently recognized by the Court. And this notwithstanding he was > cleared > > by the Kenyan judicial system to contest the presidency! > > > > Kenyatta is unlikely to encounter any problems in Africa, the Middle > East, > > and even some parts of the Far East as far as the ICC arrest warrant. > > Witness Bashir of Sudan who is still at large notwithstanding his > indictment > > by the ICC some five years ago. The fundamental question is whether > Kenyatta > > can be an effective President if he must stay out of the EU, and the > United > > States, two regions where an ICC arrest warrant is likely be executed. > > > > If Kenyatta is elected, Kenya as a country will go against the ICC. The > AU, > > and the Arab world, are already in that bracket in light of their > opposition > > to surrendering Bashir of the Sudan. Although the law is clear that > Kenyatta > > has no immunity, I cannot see him at The Hague if only because of the > > immense and critical diplomatic issues embedded in any attempt to > transfer > > him, and his running mate, to the Netherlands. > > > > Kenya's election violence appear not to be a suitable case for the ICC, > and > > it is quite regrettable we are at this point in that unfortunate > > transaction. We are here only because of Africa's governance deficit! > > > > > > > > LJDarbo > > > > ________________________________ > > From: Demba Baldeh <[log in to unmask]> > > To: [log in to unmask] > > Sent: Tuesday, 5 March 2013, 18:09 > > Subject: [G_L] Jombo Kenyatta's son Uhuru Kenyatta Possible New > President - > > of Kenya??? > > > > Uncle Sainey, > > > > Was wondering if you or history students such as Dr. Jallow could put > some > > light on the possibility of former Kenyan leader Jombo Kenyatta's son > > becoming new President of Kenya? Any recollection of Jombo Kenyatta's > reign > > in Kenya, role in fighting for Independence in Africa and promotion for > > African Unity and Pan African-ism... > > > > It can be noted that Uhuru Kenyatta is currently allegedly indited by the > > ICC for previous crimes and killings in Kenya... Would this Jeopardize > his > > potential Presidency and what would it mean on the credibility of the > ICC... > > LJD any opinion on this???? > > > > Thanks > > > > Demba > > > > -- > > "Be the change you want to see in the World" > > ¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤ To > > unsubscribe/subscribe or view archives of postings, go to the Gambia-L > Web > > interface at: http://listserv.icors.org/archives/gambia-l.html > > To Search in the Gambia-L archives, go to: > > http://listserv.icors.org/SCRIPTS/WA-ICORS.EXE?S1=gambia-l To contact > the > > List Management, please send an e-mail to: > > [log in to unmask] > > ¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤ > > > > > > ¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤ To > > unsubscribe/subscribe or view archives of postings, go to the Gambia-L > Web > > interface at: http://listserv.icors.org/archives/gambia-l.html > > > > To Search in the Gambia-L archives, go to: > > http://listserv.icors.org/SCRIPTS/WA-ICORS.EXE?S1=gambia-l To contact > the > > List Management, please send an e-mail to: > > [log in to unmask] > > ¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤ > > > > -- > "Be the change you want to see in the World" > > ¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤ > To unsubscribe/subscribe or view archives of postings, go to the Gambia-L > Web interface > at: http://listserv.icors.org/archives/gambia-l.html > > To Search in the Gambia-L archives, go to: > http://listserv.icors.org/SCRIPTS/WA-ICORS.EXE?S1=gambia-l > To contact the List Management, please send an e-mail to: > [log in to unmask] > ¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤ > > > ¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤ To > unsubscribe/subscribe or view archives of postings, go to the Gambia-L Web > interface at: http://listserv.icors.org/archives/gambia-l.html > To Search in the Gambia-L archives, go to: > http://listserv.icors.org/SCRIPTS/WA-ICORS.EXE?S1=gambia-l To contact the > List Management, please send an e-mail to: > [log in to unmask]¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤ > ¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤ To > unsubscribe/subscribe or view archives of postings, go to the Gambia-L Web > interface at: http://listserv.icors.org/archives/gambia-l.html > > To Search in the Gambia-L archives, go to: > http://listserv.icors.org/SCRIPTS/WA-ICORS.EXE?S1=gambia-l To contact the > List Management, please send an e-mail to: > [log in to unmask]¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤ > > ¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤ To > unsubscribe/subscribe or view archives of postings, go to the Gambia-L Web > interface at: http://listserv.icors.org/archives/gambia-l.html > > To Search in the Gambia-L archives, go to: > http://listserv.icors.org/SCRIPTS/WA-ICORS.EXE?S1=gambia-l To contact the > List Management, please send an e-mail to: > [log in to unmask]¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤ > -- *"Be the change you want to see in the World"* ¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤ To unsubscribe/subscribe or view archives of postings, go to the Gambia-L Web interface at: http://listserv.icors.org/archives/gambia-l.html To Search in the Gambia-L archives, go to: http://listserv.icors.org/SCRIPTS/WA-ICORS.EXE?S1=gambia-l To contact the List Management, please send an e-mail to: [log in to unmask] ¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤