Mawbeh, Thanks for responding rather promptly. I still didn't get what you were trying to convey here. If anything, you have only validated all my points. Understand the substance of your write up? The text speaks for itself. You are absolutely right that you made it much easier for me or any sound minded person to read and understand exactly what you meant. To your credit, I saved a fair amount of time in reading your piece and connected the dots. In paragraph two, you warned that we should "look at Dr. Janneh's decision at a broader perspective" Sound familiar? You bet. This has always been you argument in defense of Dr. Janneh. Is that not exactly what Dr. Saine's review provided? That is certainly what I and many have always done here. Oh, maybe the review did not meet your standard of "looking at the decision at broader perspective". Are you saying unequivocally that joining AFPRC/APRC, and working for Yaya was the only bad decision Dr. Janneh made while in the cabinet. I suggest you go back and read the review. I am not obsessed with Dr. Janneh at all. He is the least of my problems. I respect him as a human being though. Yes, I ignored the reference you made to Sir Dawda Jawara because, just as in the case of Dr. Saine, I did not see how the two are related, and frankly, I did not think it makes any sense to for me to spend a second of my time to walk you through that. I honestly do not know what you mean by Jawara standing by Yaya. Yes, Jawara was overthrown by Yaya and his gang of five, but as far as I know, Jawara has never sought, or worked for Yaya in any capcity. Maybe you should tell me more about that. In paragraph four you stated; " Dr. Saine HIMSELF a brain behind the founding of STGDP and an incredible scholar of our times was called all kinds of names on this forum for daring to stand with his friends (OJs) in the NAAD debacle". Here, you tried to hide behind the good sentiments you said about Dr. Saine, but only to turn around and say that he "himself" (Dr. Saine, the author of the review) has made the same or similar mistake when he stood up for his friends in the NAAD debacle". You further alleged that the name calling was from my camp. Do you mean the UDP camp, or my friends club. Be specific. I will very much appreciate if you can provide this forum with the references you have on record, please. I am not going to address your ridiculous charge that "me and my camp paraded partisan sentiments against Dr. Saine, not realizing that The Gambia was the bigger picture". My record stands out, when it comes to national interest. Machugo Jola, a limited autonomy doesn't mean that you are totally free from my dominion. You and I have traveled this rout many times before. You used to go for my throat when I had disagreements with some of Halifa Sillah's views. Love lost? This time around, you availed yourself to discredit anyone who makes an objective critique of Dr. Janneh's decision to go to bed with Yaya. Demba, you and I have talked about this off line, and I told you that I hold all those who chose to work for Yaya to the same standard. I have a beef with all of them. Crucify them? Certainly no. But we gonna call all of them on it. I am not surprised at all that your interactions with Dr. Saine are memorable. That is who Dr. Saine is. He has affected and changed many lives for the better. I can spend a whole year on that alone. Finally, what you consistently failed to understand is that, the only issue I and undoubtedly, most people in our struggle have with Dr. Janneh is, his conscious decision to join Yaya's regime. Not because he is Dr. Janneh. You have no idea how he ran his office, what advise(s) he gave Yaya in relation to media operation, misleading information to the general public, Deyda's hydara's assination and many more that only Dr. Janneh himself can answer. I bet you have no clue. You just chose to be his counsel, good luck with that. Yaya.Jammeh is my new uncle? I am deeply disappointed that out of the entire Gambian citizenry, yaya is the best you could find for me. Thanks. But no thanks. I will keep Dick Cheney. We'll pick this up another time. Please don't forget to provide us with the "partisan sentiments. I gotta go. THE END. Bests. Pa. S. Kujabi. ________________________________ From: Demba Baldeh <[log in to unmask]> To: [log in to unmask] Sent: Saturday, July 27, 2013 2:11 PM Subject: Re: Standing Against Injustice:Review by Professor Saine Pa Saikou, Ah-nyab- Safu? I wasn't going to respond to your "nice piece" to safe you the embarrassment of jumping onto my write up without either understanding the substance of it or simply responding with an emotional fixated made up mind on Dr. Janneh. Clearly you cannot look at this particular subject with an objective mind because of your obsession with the person involved. I would recommend that you go back and read what I wrote and how I referenced Dr. Saine and Jawara in my write up. For the record I have personally interacted with Dr. Saine at various levels and there is no Gambian Scholar who I respect more and admire for not only his scholarly work but his down to earth humbleness. (Point one) I only reference Dr. Saine to make a point that none of us can escape the petty criticism of pundits without looking at the issues from a broader or more objective view. Thus I indicated that despite all his Scholarly work and contribution as you recognized he was called all kinds of names on these forums during the NADD debate... which you were a huge part of parading partisan sentiments without recognizing that the stakes were higher than any party or individual. No where in my write up do I accused Dr. Saine of anything but only mentioned that people in fact in your camp were the ones calling him names (we can reference the records if you desire) Point two Pa Saikou, I have much respect for you and I expect that you will look at any issue from both sides before making a conclusive decision that clearly shows narrow mindedness and lack of objectivity.. I have nothing to gain by being "dishonest on this issue" I simply made an observation that I think has merits and gave examples. Dr. Janneh's decision will remain controversial and I personally disagree with it as I mentioned several times... My reference to Jawara and judging a man's legacy by a single incident got left out in your response because you cherry picked the issue you already made up your mind on. So I won't fault you for being self righteous and sloppy without objectivity... Again, I am neither a defender nor an advocate for Dr. Janneh. The man is doing that himself and I must admit he is doing a God damn good job on focusing on what matters and engaging people who are willing to be objective. Gambia's major problem at this time is not Dr. Janneh but your UNCLE Jammeh. Anything to get our eyes of that ball should not be given any attention period. I hope you open up your mind a little more.... Demba On Sat, Jul 27, 2013 at 12:09 AM, Pa. Saikou Kujabi <[log in to unmask]> wrote: Mawdo Demba, "Angkhaddi" misiku a-wellaani deh" > > >You are not only mixing coconuts and oranges, you are absolutely dishonest by equating what you call "Dr. Saine's daring to stand up with his friends (the OJs) in the NAAd debacle", whatever that means, to Dr. Janneh's well calculated, personal-ambition-driven move to join a regime that has at the time, repeatedly raped democracy in our motherland, slaughtered babies on the streets of Banjul, many others died mysteriously, or disappeared, and many more. If what you alleged Dr. Saine did was in fact true, I very proudly say Kudos to him, for that was a perfect democratic process, not a dictatorship, or a blind-dumb loyalty to an individual or ideology. You will recall that Dr. Saine has, in that same time period or thereafter, called on the opposition on a couple of times to throw their fullest support behind Ousainou Darboe to lead the coalition for various reasons that he very well articulated. So there wasn't any such thing as "friends" that Dr. Saine stood up for in the NAAD debacle. He has consistently stood up for one thing, and one thing only, a Gambia free of tyranny and oppression. > > > Besides, there are fundamental differences between Dr. Saine and Janneh in relation to your citation, which by the way, is shrouded in hypocrisy and blind-dumb allegiance to Dr. Janneh. In Dr. Saine, one will find consistency, honesty, sincerity, content, and above all, bravery and selflessness. A front line soldier who has never been tempted by Jammeh's luxurious cabinate or diplomatic positions. With the tittle in front of his name, I am convinced that it would not take Yaya a day to figure out his capabilities and accomplishments. A click of a button would take care of that. Furthermore, even if Dr. Saine had been called many names as you alleged, you will also agree with me that those critics were not calling him names for switching sides or cross-carpeting over to AFPRC/APRC. The name callers were undoubtedly from other opposition camps who would have been honored, or in fact have expected him to endorse their choice of candidate at that time(their respective party leaders). Unlike Dr. Janneh, Dr. Saine has never been part of the AFPRC/APRC regime, even though he has probably met Yaya before Dr. Janneh did. > > >You will further agree with me that Dr. Saine has always been with us in every step of the way, and has never capitulated to pressure, or succumbed to greed or personal ego, to say the least. The review, if anything, has in many ways echoed the sentiments openly and honestly expressed, and debated in this and other forums, including Gainako, I think. > > >In conclusion, I want to assure you that Dr. Saine's views on this and many other political issues surrounding The Gambia, are mostly, if not all the time, on solid grounds, such that not you or Janneh ....to borrow a line from brethren Modou Mboge " the enabler", can refute. Therefore, to suggest that Dr. Saine "made a mistake" by standing up for his friends (OJs) is just not supported by a thread of fact. On the conversely, to suggest that Dr. Janneh made a mistake by lobbying and eventually accepting Yaya's appointment does not hold an atom bit of water. He knew what he was doing ( Mens rea), sought for it and jumped (Actus reus) on it when he was provided with the opportunity. Dream come true, right? > > >"Beh Kajjum" > > >Pa. S. Kujabi. > > > >________________________________ > From: Demba Baldeh <[log in to unmask]> >To: [log in to unmask] >Sent: Friday, July 26, 2013 12:57 PM >Subject: Re: Standing Against Injustice:Review by Professor Saine > > > >All, > > >I thought Dr. Saine's review of "Standing Up for Injustice" is very good and balance. It is great to see our Professionals openly review the work of others with critical questions and observations without fear of all the sentiments that may come with it. It shows an open mature people who can look at issues objectively, opine on it without fear of being attacked. Kudos to Dr. Saine on this and LJD on Papa Faals " A week in hell". > > >Dr. Janneh's book and decision to work for Jammeh will continue to be a controversy and a lesson for many Gambians. I think the decision should be looked at from a broader perspective in that judging a man/woman by a single incident or decision in their entire life or legacy may be historically inconclusive. History teaches that great contributors to society or must admired have an ugly chapter in their life that they wish never had occurred... > > >Sir Dawda Jawara one of the most admired and respected in Gambian political history despite his shortcomings stood by Jammeh and continue to stand by him as we speak. There is certainly nothing more dishonorable than standing beside the one person who has insulted you so much, discard you so openly and ruin so much of what you have worked all your life to build. To err is human and am sure most of us would wish that we have not done or said something in our life one time or another. > >Dr. Saine himself a brain behind the founding of STGDP and an incredible scholar in our times was called all kinds of names on this forum for daring to stand up with his friends (the OJs) during the NADD debacle. It just goes to show that none of us could have a completely clean slate either in public or private life in the eyes of others. > > >So again, while I strongly disagree with Dr. Janneh's decision to work for Jammeh, history will judge him and many of us not on a single incident but what we dedicate our lives in fighting for. I admire a man/woman who see injustice, taste injustice and may even render injustice but dedicate part of his/her life to fight to correct that wrong .. History will be the ultimate judge and the jury is still out! > > >Happy Friday > > >Demba > > > >On Fri, Jul 26, 2013 at 4:36 AM, suntou touray <[log in to unmask]> wrote: > >Yero >>I will depart a bit on the Dr Saine review. It is human folly to make errors of judgement, some calculated, others accidental. Dr Janneh's error in joining Jammeh is well argued and elaborately written about. In the stage of the game we find ourselves in, his efforts are commendable today than, Dr Saine regurgitating what has been said over and over. >>The review is not radical neither unexpected. The case at hand seems to be focusing on the person of Dr Janneh and his mistakes...Dr Janneh paid the ultimate price for that. He was imprison for a long period and went through a painful ordeal, I belief that is a reconpence for giving Jammeh the benefit of the doubt. Many in his place would have kept quiet and has continued to do so. >>Dr Saine's review of Editor Mbai's book was more interesting if you ask me. That book is nearly impossible to review. I started to read it, but couldn't go anywhere. Hence when I saw Dr Saine's review of it, I was flabbergasted to be honest. Dr Janneh's continued efforts should be encouraged and others too trying to formulate agendas and organisations that can create formidable fighting point. The intellectual battles will be fought, but they are more about clashes of egos to those that will yield meaningful headway. >> >>Thanks >>Suntou >> >> >>On Fri, Jul 26, 2013 at 11:15 AM, Y Jallow <[log in to unmask]> wrote: >> >>Standing Against Injustice:Review by Professor Saine >>> >>> >>>http://gainako.com/?p=1454 >>> >>>Good folks, >>> >>>If you are like me, where you could not read all these books entirely or even partially, hanging onto reviews of experts will keep you up to date on some of these books. >>> >>>Thanks Professor Saine for your continued reviews. These reviews are very enlightening. I don't know how you guys keep up with it. I can only guess it must be a lot of work. The online media Gainako especially appreciate your generosity and sharing spirit. >>> >>>I congratulate Dr. Janneh for adding his memoir to Gambia's history. With due respect to him, it still leaves unanswered questions on why after all he decided to join the regime. To go and fight within was not only ill-advised, it also carries with it, "Guilt by association," especially after knowing the much about Jammeh's terror regime. Moreover, Dr. Janneh was already a professor in a political related discipline, an expectation to shape one's mind and country. Don't get me wrong. I champion the use of common sense and good judgment rather than making degrees a worshipping tool. I am just sharing that be that he is an educated person, it is hard to excuse him on the basis that he didn't know. I think history will find it hard to reconcile that part of it. It now lies wholly on Dr. Janneh to live with that stigma, something I believe his critics have valid points against. >>> >>>I must equally be fair to him and some of his very disciplined associates that since his release, I admired his participation and continuing to fight alongside with us to root out the dictator. >>> >>>Best for Ramadan, >>>Yero >>> >>> ¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤ To unsubscribe/subscribe or view archives of postings, go to the Gambia-L Web interface at: http://listserv.icors.org/archives/gambia-l.html >>>To Search in the Gambia-L archives, go to: http://listserv.icors.org/SCRIPTS/WA-ICORS.EXE?S1=gambia-l To contact the List Management, please send an e-mail to: [log in to unmask] ¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤ >> >> >>-- >>www.suntoumana.blogspot.com ¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤ To unsubscribe/subscribe or view archives of postings, go to the Gambia-L Web interface at: http://listserv.icors.org/archives/gambia-l.html >>To Search in the Gambia-L archives, go to: http://listserv.icors.org/SCRIPTS/WA-ICORS.EXE?S1=gambia-l To contact the List Management, please send an e-mail to: [log in to unmask] ¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤ > > > >-- >"Be the change you want to see in the World" ¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤ To unsubscribe/subscribe or view archives of postings, go to the Gambia-L Web interface at: http://listserv.icors.org/archives/gambia-l.html >To Search in the Gambia-L archives, go to: http://listserv.icors.org/SCRIPTS/WA-ICORS.EXE?S1=gambia-l To contact the List Management, please send an e-mail to: [log in to unmask] ¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤ > > >¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤ To unsubscribe/subscribe or view archives of postings, go to the Gambia-L Web interface at: http://listserv.icors.org/archives/gambia-l.html >To Search in the Gambia-L archives, go to: http://listserv.icors.org/SCRIPTS/WA-ICORS.EXE?S1=gambia-l To contact the List Management, please send an e-mail to: [log in to unmask] ¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤ -- "Be the change you want to see in the World" ¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤ To unsubscribe/subscribe or view archives of postings, go to the Gambia-L Web interface at: http://listserv.icors.org/archives/gambia-l.html To Search in the Gambia-L archives, go to: http://listserv.icors.org/SCRIPTS/WA-ICORS.EXE?S1=gambia-l To contact the List Management, please send an e-mail to: [log in to unmask] ¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤ ¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤ To unsubscribe/subscribe or view archives of postings, go to the Gambia-L Web interface at: http://listserv.icors.org/archives/gambia-l.html To Search in the Gambia-L archives, go to: http://listserv.icors.org/SCRIPTS/WA-ICORS.EXE?S1=gambia-l To contact the List Management, please send an e-mail to: [log in to unmask] ¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤