Thanks Demba. A very detail defense. In fact a very close friend of mine, a childhood friend was an Alkalo there. The write up delibarately picked the apples that carry the Armitage reputation, the good qualities got drown out. I am grateful for this analysis you provided. Much respect. Suntou On 28 Jul 2013 22:01, "Demba Baldeh" <[log in to unmask]> wrote: > Suntou, great write up but clearly a miss opportunity to do a broader > research on Armitage and its culture. It appears that you spoke to some ex > students and picked a negative narration of the institution and make it > look like "a breeding ground for Alcoholism and prostitution" aka girls > dressing badly. > > There are certainly thousands of Ex Armitage students on this forum who > will vehemently disagree with your assertions. I am not interested in > defending Armitage as my Alma-mata, but simply setting the records straight > or broadening the discussion. First, the section of students you referenced > who frequents or make the "Mansuwan Kunda" a habitual place represent a > very small section of the student population. In fact if your sources were > open to you, they would have told you that these are mostly students who > struggle in their academics and many of them end up failing and repeating > their classes, some expelled, some transfer to freer schools. This is the > same group that runs away from regular five day prayers, night studies and > against rules of staying on campus. This group does not reflect the larger > student body who are overwhelmingly pious and hardworking... > > Second, if you research Armitage and the institutional set up, you would > have realized that there were strict rules separating boys quarters with > girls' dormitories. In fact some spent five years in Armitage without ever > visiting the girls quarters which was locked 24/7... So were the girls > restricted in visiting boys quarters. Of course as a co-eduational > institution students were allowed to have musical nights were girls and > boys mixed. But to characterize girls in Armitage as flouting or dressing > sexual is to not know about Armitage and probably never visited the > school... > > Clearly, you missed a great opportunity to touch on the strict religious > schedules and teachings at Armitage where students are woken up at 5am to > pray dawn every single day 7 days a week. The five daily prayers were > stricter than that of Mecca if you ask me. This includes both boys and > girls. Girls are locked during prayers... (almost like Sariah law).. This > is something that even parents cannot maintain for their kids. By the way > students who were Christians were also forced to go to Church on Sundays... > You should have seen Friday prayer time when the whole school will assemble > and march to the Juma prayers without deviation. > > Finally, the discipline the Armitage institution teaches its students is a > classic example that our regular transitional families teaches their > children at home. Almost 95% of Armitage students greatly benefits from > this routines and are greatly appreciative of being part of a culture that > treats every student equally. At Armitage during my days of course, it > doesn't matter what your family background was. We all ate the same food, > wear the same clothes and of course bitten by the same mosquitoes.. > > In short, I think in terms of religious training, academic rigor, social > norm of respect for seniors and the elderly, restriction on gender > commingling, and routine schedules, Armitage is a classic example. In fact > students who spent five years at Armitage will forever appreciate being > part of an institution that never discriminates and teaches basic > fundamentals of social upbringing... > > I hope you will have another chance to do more research on Armitage and > the idea of these institutions being breeding grounds for secularism. > > Keep up the good work.. > > Demba > > > On Sun, Jul 28, 2013 at 8:11 AM, suntou touray <[log in to unmask]> wrote: > >> A great response Joe. Thanks. Actually, it in the spirit of examining a >> collective mindset and how the collective body embrace the secular >> construct. I am providing a small examination as per some discussions I >> heard with former students of this two institution. >> I agree, many within the Gambia elites patronize the Julbrew, this a >> fact. However, the discussion is relevant in highlighting a road some >> deemed as the catalyst for framing offspring. I know, Armitage former >> students are overwhelming tag with the 'mansuwan kunda' wine brewing thing. >> With the 'Dry Dance' i heard of the ring leaders who use to organise the >> night dance 'party' which came under attack from students, it was later >> stop. But many other institutions played a major role..you did well by >> highlighting some interesting stuffs. Thanks >> Suntou >> >> >> On Sun, Jul 28, 2013 at 2:44 PM, Joe Joe <[log in to unmask]> wrote: >> >>> Suntou, thanks for your take on the issue. However, don't you think you >>> are according more blame on the two insitutions and sparing the rest of >>> Gambian high schools, secondary schools, and the University as well? >>> Julbrew/Banjul Breweries has been known to run out of stock in a country >>> that is 85% to 90% Muslim. Who is drinking all that alcohol? Certainly not >>> the 10% with almost 100% not knowing where Armitage is located. The output >>> of Julbrew far out number the combined Daakaa output in the country. So, >>> who has contributed more to the consumption of alcohol in the country? >>> Also, have you not seen the students of SAHS, GHS, Muslim High, Nusrat, >>> etc. at the clubs and beaches tilting the bottle and smoking weed among >>> other things? How about the rate of teenage pregnancies in the urban areas? >>> I would venture that what happened/is happening in the urban areas far >>> outweigh what went/or is going on at say, Amitage. SAHS used to go to >>> Armitage every year and at the time the place was quite restrictive for >>> some of us. When we have a dance, it ended up being attended by the >>> outsiders for the most part and we played cat and mouse with the Principals >>> trying to play around the curfew, with the local student heads to report >>> local students that ventured out pass the deadline or tried to join the >>> party. >>> >>> Let us also not forget that the Gambian state is a secular state and the >>> constitution is the people. I do not think secularity is the issue. Are you >>> trying to push for a Theocracy? Because due to our multi religion, tribe, >>> and other persuasions I think a secular state is best for us and each to be >>> free to practice their religion without hindrance. You live in the UK, do >>> you know how many Gambians who are Muslims drink alcohol for instance and >>> they did not pick up the habit in the Gambia or an Armitage? And so, like >>> many of our affairs, we are masters at looking the other way. >>> >>> I will extend the conversation to venture into prostitution in the >>> Gambia. Our target of choice for blame is "The Foreigners" (Sierra >>> Leoneans, Senegalese, Nigerians, Bissau Guineans, etc.). We all know that a >>> great deal of prostitutes in the Gambia are our fellow Gambians (you and my >>> neighbor, relative, etc.). There are various kinds of prostitutes, female, >>> male, open, covert, etc. and Gambians have the lion share. >>> >>> I will also add the case of homosexuality. Is there any place in our >>> globe that humans habitat and you do not have homosexuals? There isn't. So, >>> why do Africans pretend that we never had homosexuals in Africa, >>> and specifically, Gambia. How many of us can honestly say we do not know of >>> a homosexual, growing up in Gambia? And so, who are we fooling? Yes, the >>> culture was/is hostile to homosexuals, driving them underground. However, >>> we have some that came out even back in the 70s and 80s with their drumming >>> sessions and entertainment of their counterparts in say Senegal and to this >>> day they are homosexuals where ever they are in the world. Homosexuality is >>> not a European creation but part of humanity. There was time that white and >>> black marriages were prohibited/frowned upon in the UK, US, Rhodesia, SA, >>> and countless other places around the world and many black folks were >>> murdered for it. Today interracial marriage is a fact of life, and so will >>> we come to a stage that accepting our brothers and sisters for who they are >>> will be a fact of life. A question for you, if you have a son/daughter that >>> told you they feel different from their apparent gender, what will you say >>> or do to them? Yes, you can wish it away, pray on it all you want, but you >>> had easier raise a person from the dead than make them feel otherwise. I >>> have heard Gambians that swore by the heavens that they will use their bare >>> hands and kill that child of they reveal their humanity as such. So, Yaya >>> is not the only one out there. However, I will put it to those Gambians >>> that, that is just talk. It is very hard to look your child in the face and >>> kill them just because of their sexual orientation. Those that will follow >>> through can go ahead as long as they know they will rot in jail for the >>> rest of their life and as faith would have it, if a man, may be forcefully >>> made another man's wife. That is also a fact of life in jail too. Daaw Be >>> Mbokou! :-)! >>> >>> Joe >>> >>> ------------------------------ >>> Date: Sun, 28 Jul 2013 00:33:36 +0100 >>> From: [log in to unmask] >>> Subject: [G_L] Dry dance and Alcohol : Gambia College and Armitage >>> To: [log in to unmask] >>> >>> >>> The secularising process. >>> >>> http://suntoumana.blogspot.co.uk/2013/07/bastion-of-secular-gambiadry-dance-and.html >>> >>> Suntou >>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> www.suntoumana.blogspot.com >>> 、、、、、、、、、、、、、、、、、、、、、、、、、、、、、、、、、、、、、、、、、、、、、、、、、、、、、、、、、、 To >>> unsubscribe/subscribe or view archives of postings, go to the Gambia-L Web >>> interface at: http://listserv.icors.org/archives/gambia-l.html To >>> Search in the Gambia-L archives, go to: >>> http://listserv.icors.org/SCRIPTS/WA-ICORS.EXE?S1=gambia-l To contact >>> the List Management, please send an e-mail to: >>> [log in to unmask]、、、、、、、、、、、、、、、、、、、、、、、、、、、、、、、、、、、、、、、、、、、、、、、、、、、、、、、、、、 >>> ¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤ To >>> unsubscribe/subscribe or view archives of postings, go to the Gambia-L Web >>> interface at: http://listserv.icors.org/archives/gambia-l.html >>> >>> To Search in the Gambia-L archives, go to: >>> http://listserv.icors.org/SCRIPTS/WA-ICORS.EXE?S1=gambia-l To contact >>> the List Management, please send an e-mail to: >>> [log in to unmask]¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤ >>> >> >> >> >> -- >> www.suntoumana.blogspot.com >> ¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤ To >> unsubscribe/subscribe or view archives of postings, go to the Gambia-L Web >> interface at: http://listserv.icors.org/archives/gambia-l.html >> >> To Search in the Gambia-L archives, go to: >> http://listserv.icors.org/SCRIPTS/WA-ICORS.EXE?S1=gambia-l To contact >> the List Management, please send an e-mail to: >> [log in to unmask]¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤ >> > > > > -- > *"Be the change you want to see in the World"* > ¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤ To > unsubscribe/subscribe or view archives of postings, go to the Gambia-L Web > interface at: http://listserv.icors.org/archives/gambia-l.html > > To Search in the Gambia-L archives, go to: > http://listserv.icors.org/SCRIPTS/WA-ICORS.EXE?S1=gambia-l To contact the > List Management, please send an e-mail to: > [log in to unmask]¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤ > ¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤ To unsubscribe/subscribe or view archives of postings, go to the Gambia-L Web interface at: http://listserv.icors.org/archives/gambia-l.html To Search in the Gambia-L archives, go to: http://listserv.icors.org/SCRIPTS/WA-ICORS.EXE?S1=gambia-l To contact the List Management, please send an e-mail to: [log in to unmask] ¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤