Hmmm! Chuckles as usual to our Gambian-L drag.


On Wed, Aug 7, 2013 at 8:45 AM, Demba Baldeh <[log in to unmask]> wrote:

> Interesting... well, now that we dealt with everybody from the PhD's;
> Imams to the street beggars; it is about time we look in the mirror and
> deal with ourselves... Just saying...
>
> Eid Mubarak in advance...
>
> Demba
>
>
> On Tue, Aug 6, 2013 at 6:02 PM, Joe Joe <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>
>> Khaleel, thanks for your response and clarification. That was my take and
>> since you reiterated that, that is not where you were headed, that is
>> sufficient for me. Now, you have been around and know that we have dealt
>> with the Supreme Islamic Council, BAR Association, opposition leaders,
>> Priests, Village Heads, and I can go on and on and the who is who in
>> Gambian society. So, it baffles me that with all that background you will
>> think that only a few PhDs are put on the chopping block or to bear our
>> weight. We cannot talk about all of them in one sitting, but nonetheless,
>> we shall discuss all those found wanting and in time. Unfortunately, ours
>> is like trying to fill a basket with water - there are too many of such
>> characters to last us a lifetime, but it is a fight we must continue as we
>> fight to take back Gambia.
>>
>> Joe
>>
>> ------------------------------
>> Date: Tue, 6 Aug 2013 19:45:58 -0400
>>
>> From: [log in to unmask]
>> Subject: Re: [G_L] Khaleel and co under attack: Gambian Drs and PhD
>> holders not the solution then: Who is David Bansama
>> To: [log in to unmask]
>>
>>  Joe,
>>
>>
>>
>> You are absolutely entitled to your opinion especially your
>> interpretation of any literature. I read what David wrote and you read it
>> as well. It is not uncommon for both of us to come to a different
>> conclusion. I understand the issues you have with them and I share some of
>> your sentiments.
>>
>> It is wrong by any measure for anyone to chase fame and fortune while
>> sacrificing personal courage, integrity and basic human decency and then
>> turn around to attempt to lead a crusade against someone you decided to get
>> cozy with and serve.
>>
>> My conscience cannot let me condone to that but we can't make a mistake
>> though, to narrow that conversation to a few PHD/DR holders “so called
>> intellectuals” in our society.
>>
>> There are many things wrong in our society and a whole lot of people are
>> contributing to what is wrong in the Gambia, a lot more than the few
>> so-called intellectuals. That doesn’t make it ok by any means for them
>> to add salt to the wound either.
>>
>> How many positions are in Yaya’s government? Compare that to the few held
>> by these PHD/DRs and you will have a lot more positions left filled by our
>> brothers and sisters.
>>
>> Joe I am not in the business of defending a grown man/woman who can do
>> that better for themselves. I gain nothing from that brother. I write and
>> speak with conviction just like you and I am not too big to render apology
>> when I am wrong. Please read my posting earlier today in response to David.
>> Below is an extract from his article we are talking about:
>>
>>
>>
>> “He did not think of the average man who sees him and his Ph. D as a
>> savior. He let them down. He did not see the poor farmer in Njain Sanjal,
>> Badibu, Niumi, Jarra and Kiang looking up to them (the intellectuals/ *Borom
>> Hamham yi*) to save our small Gambia from the disaster it has already
>> slid into. *Our intellectuals indeed!!!”.*
>>
>> * *
>>
>> I am not in the business of endorsing people or provide them lukewarm
>> excuses but I respect people for their views and opinions. I wrote about
>> this particular article exactly how I understood it. I follow your postings
>> here and I know you are a very opinionated person, a quality we share. I
>> guess we will just have a difference in opinion on this one. Stay blessed.
>>
>>
>> Khaleel
>>
>>
>>
>> Date: Tue, 6 Aug 2013 17:25:36 -0500
>> From: [log in to unmask]
>> Subject: Re: [G_L] Khaleel and co under attack: Gambian Drs and PhD
>> holders not the solution then: Who is David Bansama
>> To: [log in to unmask]
>>
>> Khaleel, I think there is a slight difference between the gist of your
>> write-up against what David said with respect to expectations we have
>> regarding PhDs. None is giving them one more pond of any load to carry much
>> more total responsibility of our burden. Myissue with these guys is they
>> sold their soul, got kicked out, and then have the nerve to portray
>> themselves as our libertors, to which some of us told them to get lost. How
>> is that expecting them to shoulder our responsibility? We are dwelling on
>> the behavior of these guys for their attempts on us and the lies they carry
>> with them. The issue is not whether they are human and circumstance, but
>> talking about their character and behavior just like we do daily with Yaya.
>> There are no sacred cows here and if there are any left then a notice is
>> being served, for we will expose them. Your main gist is what threw me a
>> curve ball, because it can be viewed as a lukewarm defense or left hand
>> endorsement of some of these characters. That may not have been your
>> intent, but that is how it came across to me in the main.
>>
>> Joe
>>
>> ------------------------------
>> Date: Tue, 6 Aug 2013 12:38:15 -0400
>> From: [log in to unmask]
>> Subject: Re: [G_L] Khaleel and co under attack: Gambian Drs and PhD
>> holders not the solution then: Who is David Bansama
>> To: [log in to unmask]
>>
>>
>> Thanks Sountou for sharing yet another piece from David.  I know David
>> is reading, below is my response:
>>
>> David,
>>
>> Thanks for taking the time out whether to elaborate more on your points
>> or to repeat/clarify points previously made that I obviously missed. I
>> still stand by what my interpretation of your article was and I am certain
>> you will do the same as well. Words have meanings and meanings can be
>> flexible at times depending on who is reading or writing. To me, your list
>> associated those individuals to a high degree of responsibility or lack of
>> to our national development. While you, the readers and I may have some
>> minor differences on use of words, concept and interpretation which won’t
>> go away, I will like to focus on what we agree on if that’s ok with you.
>>
>> I think we are saying the same thing here for the most part David. We
>> both don’t expect the PHD/DRs to be the agent of change in our country; we
>> both agree that given their intellectual capacity, they should play a role
>> worthy of emulation in this time of despair. We also agree that the
>> responsibility of our nation building rests in the hands of many not few.
>>  These are pretty significant things we agree on and I pray that our
>> deeds match our words for the most rather than the few who will shoulder
>> this crusade to lead our nation in the near future. I also pray for all of
>> us to be steadfast, humble, respect one another and reason well with each
>> other. I look forward to reading more from you. Have a blessed day and
>> happy eid in advance.
>>
>> Khaleel
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>> Date: Tue, 6 Aug 2013 12:15:29 +0100
>> From: [log in to unmask]
>> Subject: [G_L] Khaleel and co under attack: Gambian Drs and PhD holders
>> not the solution then: Who is David Bansama
>> To: [log in to unmask]
>>
>>  Gambian intellectuals Are Not Agents of Change<http://kibaaro.com/gambian-intellectuals-are-not-agents-of-change/>
>> Reads :274
>>  *OURS IS A CRUSADE TO CLEANSE* *OUR SOCIETY OF THESE PARASITES
>> *
>>
>>
>>
>> *By David Bansama*
>> *“David is over stretching their role……. The expectation that less than
>> one percent of our population should shoulder the responsibility to lead
>> and effect change because they attained the highest level of education is
>> not real” – Says Khaleel Jameel on Gambia L*
>>
>> When I wrote my piece last week, I knew (and expected) it would generate
>> a lot of discourse because it is not the norm (to talk in less favourable
>> terms about people held in reverence) in our milieu. What I did not expect,
>> however, was an attempt (whether by design or default) to infer meanings
>> into my piece which I have not inferred. Thank God, I am still alive, I
>> will go back to re-iterate my position.
>>
>> Learning from history, I have never expected the Gambian Ph. Ds (or
>> intellectuals) to be the agents of change in our country (even though they
>> can) and I have never expected them to “shoulder the responsibility”. We
>> learnt from history that in societies where change was effected, it was
>> usually the common man who took the lead. For instance, the popular French
>> Revolution was led by the common man; the American war of Independence was
>> not led by the Ph.Ds; the Russian revolt against the Czars was led by the
>> common man; coming home, one of the Fathers of Gambia’s Independence, Sir
>> Dawda Jawara; was first identified and chosen by the common man to
>> represent them. Even at that, he hesitated and contemplated possible
>> financial losses especially as a family man (stated by Sir Dawda in his own
>> book). Some of the members that attended the Marlborough Conference to
>> discuss Gambia’s independence were barely literate. In recent times, the
>> change that Brazil, one of the emerging markets (BRICS), is experiencing
>> was initiated by Lula Da Silva who is not a Ph.D but a common Trade
>> Unionist from the masses; Hugo Chavez (despite Western vilification)
>> brought immense changes to his country for the common man and he did it
>> without attaining a Ph.D. The man that everybody loves (Nelson Mandela)
>> changed the course of history in South Africa without attaining a Ph. D.
>> Likewise, all the Gambian Liberation Movements (as numerous as they are)
>> were not initiated by Gambian Ph.Ds. Please correct me if I am wrong. These
>> “intellectuals” are usually the comfortable lot who like lording it over
>> the rest after the battle had been fought and won. Let me just give a
>> casual example here: isn’t it interesting to see on Maafanta, the FB
>> exchanges between our former Honourable Foreign Minister, Sidi Sanneh, who
>> did not attend the events in Raleigh and Stockholm but wants quick results
>> (in terms of reports) and is so brazen about it? He even trivializes the
>> matter rather unwittingly (just like he did with Yahya Jammeh’s underpants)
>> by zooming on the latest gadgets brought to the meetings, interestingly
>> putting it in this rather de-meaning fashion “…*I did not attend either
>> of the meetings but I was told about the fancy gadgets”.*Isn’t this
>> cheap and petty for Sidi himself? Where were his brain and conscience at
>> the time of penning this particular line? When I read it, I was tempted to
>> ask: Was it gadgets that concerned you most about the meetings or the
>> substance? How trivial and petty could one be?
>>
>> Having said the above, what I (and the majority of the poverty-stricken
>> Gambians) do not, however, expect from our Ph.Ds and other “intellectuals”
>> is *the aiding and abetting of the current Gambian dictatorship in
>> brutalising our people because of their own selfish interest*. By the
>> way, do you know there are some of these “intellectuals” who still
>> clandestinely work with the Dictatorship in Banjul even after Jammeh had
>> shown them the way out in the most cavalier manner?  We have full dossiers
>> on most of them and, at the opportune time, will share it with the rest of
>> our compatriots to buttress our point on how cheap but dangerous some of
>> our “intellectuals” can be. It is not a threat. *Ours is a crusade in
>> which we are determined to cleanse our society of these parasites*. All
>> of the people I mentioned in my write-up joined the regime after Gambians
>> have seen enough PHYSICAL EVIDENCE OF JAMMEH’s BRUTALITY. What more lessons
>> did they need to understand that Jammeh is deranged and derailed, and
>> therefore did not mean well for our people? With their supposed exposure
>> and level of “education”, they ought to have known better. This was the
>> thrust of my message and I thought it was crystal clear to even the most
>> casual reader.
>>
>> Now flipping the debate in Khaleel’s way, even if we assumed “less than
>> one percent of our population should shoulder the responsibility to lead
>> and effect change because they attained the highest level of education”,
>> this cannot still be considered an “over-stretching” of their role,
>> especially if we take education as a means to better our societies. This is
>> aptly conveyed to you at the point of getting your degrees for it is said
>> you have been found “*worthy in learning and character*” to be conferred
>> a Bachelors, Masters or a Ph.D. as the case may be. I believe, 50 Gambian
>> PH.Ds (less than one percent of the Gambian population but with the right
>> mindset and strength of character) selflessly working together, can bring
>> immense benefit to our people. It is all about honesty, principles and
>> patriotism (not the narrow and twisted definition as coined by our
>> Professor in Banjul).
>>
>> With regards to the rest of what Khaleel said and emphasised “*Let’s not
>> forget that these PHD/Doctorate holders are Gambians, they are packed with
>> all flaws each and every Gambian of us has*”, I have already belaboured
>> on this fact in both my opening and concluding paragraphs, so I need not
>> repeat that. I would just refer you to these paragraphs to confirm for
>> yourself what I have already said.
>>
>> I believe we should all be held accountable for our actions especially
>> during these trying times.
>>
>>
>> [image: Print Friendly]<http://www.printfriendly.com/print?url=http://kibaaro.com/gambian-intellectuals-are-not-agents-of-change/>
>>   Share this:
>>
>>    -
>>     <http://kibaaro.com/gambian-intellectuals-are-not-agents-of-change/#>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> www.suntoumana.blogspot.com¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤ To
>> unsubscribe/subscribe or view archives of postings, go to the Gambia-L Web
>> interface at: http://listserv.icors.org/archives/gambia-l.html To Search
>> in the Gambia-L archives, go to:
>> http://listserv.icors.org/SCRIPTS/WA-ICORS.EXE?S1=gambia-l To contact
>> the List Management, please send an e-mail to:
>> [log in to unmask]¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤
>>  ¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤ To
>> unsubscribe/subscribe or view archives of postings, go to the Gambia-L Web
>> interface at: http://listserv.icors.org/archives/gambia-l.html To Search
>> in the Gambia-L archives, go to:
>> http://listserv.icors.org/SCRIPTS/WA-ICORS.EXE?S1=gambia-l To contact
>> the List Management, please send an e-mail to:
>> [log in to unmask]¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤
>> ¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤ To
>> unsubscribe/subscribe or view archives of postings, go to the Gambia-L Web
>> interface at: http://listserv.icors.org/archives/gambia-l.html To Search
>> in the Gambia-L archives, go to:
>> http://listserv.icors.org/SCRIPTS/WA-ICORS.EXE?S1=gambia-l To contact
>> the List Management, please send an e-mail to:
>> [log in to unmask]¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤
>>  ¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤ To
>> unsubscribe/subscribe or view archives of postings, go to the Gambia-L Web
>> interface at: http://listserv.icors.org/archives/gambia-l.html To Search
>> in the Gambia-L archives, go to:
>> http://listserv.icors.org/SCRIPTS/WA-ICORS.EXE?S1=gambia-l To contact
>> the List Management, please send an e-mail to:
>> [log in to unmask]¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤
>> ¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤ To
>> unsubscribe/subscribe or view archives of postings, go to the Gambia-L Web
>> interface at: http://listserv.icors.org/archives/gambia-l.html
>>
>> To Search in the Gambia-L archives, go to:
>> http://listserv.icors.org/SCRIPTS/WA-ICORS.EXE?S1=gambia-l To contact
>> the List Management, please send an e-mail to:
>> [log in to unmask]¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤
>>
>
>
>
> --
> *"Be the change you want to see in the World"*
> ¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤ To
> unsubscribe/subscribe or view archives of postings, go to the Gambia-L Web
> interface at: http://listserv.icors.org/archives/gambia-l.html
>
> To Search in the Gambia-L archives, go to:
> http://listserv.icors.org/SCRIPTS/WA-ICORS.EXE?S1=gambia-l To contact the
> List Management, please send an e-mail to:
> [log in to unmask]¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤
>


¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤
To unsubscribe/subscribe or view archives of postings, go to the Gambia-L Web interface
at: http://listserv.icors.org/archives/gambia-l.html

To Search in the Gambia-L archives, go to: http://listserv.icors.org/SCRIPTS/WA-ICORS.EXE?S1=gambia-l
To contact the List Management, please send an e-mail to:
[log in to unmask]
¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤