Buharry,
Thanks for your contribution in the debate. Strong words of sentiment brother; “That Obama who has since he became
president acted as a warmonger has been given the Nobel Peace Prize is a
bastardisation of the prize. It should be reclaimed.” Are you talking about
President Barrack Obama being a warmonger? The man who still have a difficulty in
deciding what actions to take. I believe if it weren’t the red line he established, he wouldn’t even consider any
action. Well I guess the voters got it right by not electing John Mccain. We would have already been in a full blown war by now.
I am a spokesman for neither America nor the West in general,
but you have to agree they get a lot wrong but they do get a lot right as
well. We can call them self appointed
moral police but the United States came to the aid and rescue of many nations
and made a significant difference in the world today, sacrificing both resources
and lives of its citizens. It will be an insult for those who lost their lives or whose lives have changed defending democracy around the world.
The U.S stance on chemical weapons is what may lead them in striking Syria. Why did Assad wait for five days before he let the inspectors in his country? Tamper with evidence maybe. Move remnants of chemicals into Iran? In the beginning of the Egyptian crises, U.S didn’t have any reason to intervene.
What I think they did wrong was not calling it a
military coup. When their military started killing innocent civilians,
Secretary John Kerry and many other lawmakers including the President condemned
it. If you are calling John Kerry a junior official then I guess you
underestimate his position.
Do you realize that the Assad regime is responsible for many murders of innocent civilians since the inception of this debacle? Chemical weapons have been used in Syria prior to this time. The U.S and the world turn their heads in all those instances. I made it know that I support strikes against Syria; it doesn’t matter who used the chemical weapons, the rebels or Assad regime. These weapons could fall in the wrong hands and you and I won't be ever safe wherever we are.
Chemical weapons are used against defenseless people and the
world has to stand up for them. Imagine if that trend catches on around the
world that you can do anything you want as a leader (rebel or president)
without repercussions. That is unjust. It is not that complex to make chemical
bombs especially the one used in a Japanese subway killing 30 plus people. So
imagine anyone with a technical know how, building these bombs using them
randomly on innocent people.
I acknowledge U.S. is not policing all nations equally based on national interest but I can almost guarantee you that any nation that uses chemical weapons against its people will feel the wrath of the U.S. military might. I am not all about power, guns and killing; rather I am about putting an end to small fires before they become disasters too big to fight. When was the last time these international bodies intervene in any meaningful global crises? You are entitled to believe that U.S. is being the judge, the Jury and executioner.
The Gambians in the diaspora would have been those rebels if were within the borders of the Gambia fighting for justice against a rogue government. Do you believe any of us will use chemical weapons against our families just to make Jammeh look bad to the West? I seriously doubt that.
But wherever there is persistent fighting with rebels against a ruling government, there lies a serious fundamental issue worthy of addressing. In my humble opinion, I care less who is running these scalawag nations, use of chemical weapons for mass killing should not be entertain and the worlds leading nation(s) should take a vehement stand against it protect those who can't defend themselves.
Khaleel
LJD and Saiks,
I must admit that I enjoy reading your comments. You guys are thoughtful, thorough and enlightening in your correspondence even when we disagree I can still learn something from your thoughts.
I wrote eight paragraphs on my last posting and give my opinion in most, my support in one and the last where I talked about separating men from the boys yet you consider me as having a logic of raw power. If you think what I said is the opposite of what makes U.S as great as it is today then I must not know anything about America.
When Lincoln issued the Emancipation Proclamation declaring that as of 1 January 1863, all slaves in the rebellious states, "shall be then, thenceforward, and forever free", he didn’t do it only to free African Slaves. In his first message to Congress on 4 July 1861, Lincoln declared that he had “no purpose, directly or indirectly, to interfere with slavery in the States where it exists. Instead Lincoln used it as a military strategy. This was evident as thousands of slaves fled to join the invading Northern armies.
Saiks, do you really believe that America supports more dictators than any other nation? Do you really believe that America goes to war for its economical, political and military interest? I guess you can say the U.S financed its wars by borrowing money from China; actually when the U.S. government needs to borrow money, it sells bonds and securities. These are sold in the open market and anyone can buy them. If the Chinese wants to buy them and own most of America’s debt then they inevitably finance its wars.
I am always humbled to read your opinions and perspectives in this forum. I see this situation in a different angle than you guys, but I cannot discount your take on it. This is what makes us unique and together we can form great a team just as long as we don’t let ego and pride take precedence over debating issues with substance. I just feel that if you let these things go on without being addressed, they will breed more chaos and the world will lose grip on these issues. I have to say the Iraq situation did leave a bad taste in peoples mouth around the globe. This I think is a different situation though.
Ousman, how is that critics aka the boy's corner? LOL hope it’s comfortable. You had me dying laughing when I read that. I respect your opinion though.
LJD ouch, I lost your nomination already. Thats ok I just want to be able to walk on the beach without fear of being beaten by the police or military when I go back home. By time I retire and go back, I will be too old, these young guys are as sharp as a whistle. I trust that they will lead our country in the right direction.
Khaleel
DembaThe charge is not genocide as that was never a central calculation in Assad's behaviour.Interesting your second paragraph as that is exactly what is happening in The Gambia. Why is no one coming to our aid, notwithstanding the widows, the widowers, children without parents, breadwinners unlawfully detained, imprisoned sometimes, tortured, and murdered. In broad daylight, and right under the nose of the Ambassadors, and High Commissioners of the key countries ranged against Syria. What is wrong with the international community saying that the evidence must be conclusive. As in domestic public life, the evidence must sanction punishment! In the States, Demba Baldeh will never go to prison without compelling evidence, and this architecture is built into the UN Charter under whose Chapter VII powers any action in Syria must be taken, but the UK's foreign secretary contends Security Council authorisation is not necessary.Demba, in international affairs, there are no saints, and much as I love the US, and the UK, I can appreciate the propaganda of, and for war, a mile off. Propaganda is a key component of international public life, and in any major dispute, you must always keep that in mind.LJDarboFrom: Demba Baldeh <[log in to unmask]>
To: [log in to unmask]
Sent: Thursday, 29 August 2013, 18:30
Subject: Re: [G_L] Obama considers military action against Syria
Ousman,The frustration and disappointments are understandable. However, reality dictates that there is a difference between being a candidate running for office and ACTUALLY governing... There is almost always a contradiction between these two because of the reality...Now to some of us it really shouldn't matter who used the chemical weapons at this point in the conflict. The situation that created the condition where chemical weapons would be used is the main culprit here. If Assad were to negotiate with his country men and women and device a transition or power sharing the world would probably not have seen the use of these weapons. Certainly two years into the conflict there is no end in sight to the killings of innocent civilians by their own government. The world already have enough of the killings and then the weapons... What is the solution? Sit by and watch little children being massacred.. or engage the tyrant and give the people a chance to rebuilt. I really honestly don't think this is about drumming for war but rather stopping the genocide before we have another Rwanda...............The jury is out but the world has a responsibility to stop this carnage just like we are calling for in Gambia...Thanks
Demba
On Thu, Aug 29, 2013 at 9:57 AM, Ousman Ceesay <[log in to unmask]> wrote:Candidate Obama will be critical of President Obama. This saber rattling against other countries without the consent of congress or the international community is one the things he used against his strongest opponent in 2008. If you don't believe most of the progressive community supported his candidacy because of the Iraq debacle, then I have the Kerewan bridge on the market for the highest bidder. What a change Washington does to some politicians. The same characters that advocated for invading every middle eastern country and never paid a price for it are signing letters and appearing on television telling us to strike another country based on flimsy evidence. In a civil war, such as we have in Syria, who is to say the opposition didn't use the chemical weapons to get an edge? isn't that what the united nations is investigating? Most of humanity is waiting for some evidence before even contemplating another adventure into war theater, not the sages in Washington. They are all hanged up on this nonsense that once the president drew an imaginary red line, there should be consequences, evidence be damn. I am so tired of seeing liberals who were seething with rage when Bush defied the UN and invade Iraq make ridiculous excuses for Obama.As of this writing ...Thursday morning, some Syrians will pay with their lives because America's president want to send a symbolic message. That is as outrageous as the one he purports to answer.From: Malanding Jaiteh <[log in to unmask]>
To: [log in to unmask]
Sent: Thursday, August 29, 2013 8:13 AM
Subject: Re: [G_L] Obama considers military action against Syria
¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤ To unsubscribe/subscribe or view archives of postings, go to the Gambia-L Web interface at: http://listserv.icors.org/archives/gambia-l.htmlFor much of the world and I believe many in the US its not about how bad Assad have acted over the past 2 yrs but what authority do we (the US and the rest of the world) have to "punish" him? Will "punishing" stop further bloodshed?
Malanding
On 8/29/2013 11:02 AM, Husainou wrote:Sir LBD I profoundly honor your opinion but from I read and heard the weapon used against those people was nothing more than chemical weapon.Hous
¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤ To unsubscribe/subscribe or view archives of postings, go to the Gambia-L Web interface at: http://listserv.icors.org/archives/gambia-l.htmlHousI don't know what was used against "those poor defenceless civilians", and so I await the informed verdict of UN mandated investigators.LJDarboFrom: Husainou <[log in to unmask]>
To: [log in to unmask]
Sent: Thursday, 29 August 2013, 14:04
Subject: Re: [G_L] Obama considers military action against Syria
Well somebody used chemical weapon against those poor defenseless civilians. All fingers are pointing at Assad's regime who is among few nations that still have stockpiles of such deadly weapons.Those rebels don't have the resources to maintain chemical weapons . Right now Assad is desperate , he will do anything to keep him in power.
Hous
Saiks, and AlieuYour short reactions are not doing justice to the topic, but I am with you for there is something quite profound in your takes. If time permits, you should consider full length essays on this crucial topic.The geopolitical calculations over this region are immense, and so far, there is no convincing evidence that Assad indeed used the alleged chemical weapons. A CNN anchor suggested to a so-called political science professor (Arab national) out of Dubai that it is indeed plausible for the chemical weapons to be supplied by countries such as Saudi Arabia, and others opposed to Assad. His response was that the rebels would not use such weapons against their own people. And he calls himself a political science professor!The chemical weapons issue is quite complicated and there are a number of possibilities over who could have been behind its alleged use. If chemical weapons are like bullets, I wonder if it is possible to track the origin of the type used in this alleged attack in Syria. Any views, Kejau, and Khaleel?More fundamentally, another issue for me is why so much emphasis on the alleged use of a weapon that killed 2000 max in a war where an estimated 100,000 perished. Is this not baffling, and why the huge global arsenal of chemical and nuclear weapons?I'm glad the democratic system in the UK forced a climb down by David Cameron yesterday.In the domestic arena, there is no question whatsoever that the US and the UK are among the preeminent democracies of modern times, with governmental systems based on restraint grounded in the rule of law and the separation of powers. There is no such routine respect for legality when it comes to international affairs. Over the past several days, the UK Foreign Secretary consistently argues that with or without the authorisation of the UN Security Council, they will move against Assad. This is quite troubling in the sense they set up the veto and permanent membership system of the Security Council. It is vital that they operate within the constraints of that system, and not use its awesome powers as a double-edged sword. None of these leaders would dare contemplate in the domestic sphere what they are advocating in international affairs!At the very least, the prudent thing to do is wait for the report of the UN mandated weapons inspectors, and in the words of the Secretary General, "give peace a chance" in that process.If the US goes in today, the UK will not join in for a few more days, if at all. I celebrate UK democracy for insisting on verifiable transparencyLJDarboFrom: samateh saikou <[log in to unmask]>
To: [log in to unmask]
Sent: Thursday, 29 August 2013, 12:20
Subject: Re: [G_L] Obama considers military action against Syria
K,
Just droping few Lines,East Timor and Siera leone conflicts ended not as result of militAry intervension likewise Sudan.the Un has/had a peace mission in the first two,one of which you Your self participated with A full Un mandate not only making it a legal action,but in world opinion too very ligitimate.see i Am not a pasifist ,in my response to brother khaleel i will forward the reason given by Obama as to why he need to act on Syria
Date: Thu, 29 Aug 2013 12:51:45 +0200
From: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [G_L] Obama considers military action against Syria
To: [log in to unmask]
Thanks Saiks.As brother Demba said, the results are determined mainly by the nationals and not the liberation aiders. Sierra Leone, East Timor, Sudan, came to mind as success stories.KejauSent from Samsung Mobile
-------- Original message --------
From: samateh saikou <[log in to unmask]>
Date:
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [G_L] Obama considers military action against Syria
Brother Khaleel,thanks,so much sense in what you said it will be difficult to respond to you but I will try later in the day. Kejau, what for me is liberation might be very much different from yours,which is also ok.One thing is certain,I dont believe that it is the duty and responsibility of one nation to liberate another nation,for me there will be no liberation based on the desire of the people.There is no force on earth that can resist the will of the people.The mighty fascist Soviet Union was pulled down to the ground by people without guns or bullet,if it can happen there,it can happen anywhere on this earth. I dont believe that the people of Irag,Libya or Afghanistan have been liberated.Let me tell you one thing,if the US or Senegal,or any nation offer me to liberate Gambia with results of Irag ,Libya or Afghanistan,I will say no thanks,let Jammeh rule.
For Freedom
Saiks
Date: Thu, 29 Aug 2013 07:45:55 +0200
From: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [G_L] Obama considers military action against Syria
To: [log in to unmask]
Thank you Khalleel,Sent from Samsung Mobile
-------- Original message --------
From: Khaleel Jameel <[log in to unmask]>
Date:
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [G_L] Obama considers military action against Syria
Saiks,
Asad’s guilt or innocence in the recent chemical attacks on his own people could have been determined from jump by working with the international agencies to investigate cause and responsibility for that heinous crime. But of course who is going to extend his/her hands to shake another if your hands are covered with dirt during a search for a grave digger? U.S never blessed Saddam to use chemical weapons back in 1988 or so. It could be argued that someone in that administration has to know that they were going to use it prior to them executing that mission. I would certainly not reference wikilinks in a serious conversation, and of course key word here is I.
You are right; I will never consider war to be a solution to any situation. U.S invasion of Afghanistan, Libya and Iraq did not make those countries a developed country but has arguably not made them any worst. Like Demba mentioned, these countries were liberated and given a chance. How they choose to run their country from that point have a lot to do with their concept, commitment to their people and the rule of law.
I don’t honestly see Syria being any different but would you rather the world sit back and watch the massacre and slaughter of innocent citizens of Syria? U.S. is indeed doing a lot of supporting of many organizations openly and privately however; so is many other countries in the world. Does that make it ok? Hell no. Did you see how much Saudi Arabia, Kuwait and Jordan combined gave to Egypt? Ridiculous I’m thinking.
It is my believe that there is no morality in war. When one nation comes to the conclusion to fight another nation for whatever reason, humanity and morality failed utterly. I believe that every war is futile when compared to the senseless massacre of human lives. U.S however has lost both money and lives of their brave men and women in defense of many nations across the globe and I commend them for that. It only shows their tenacity for freedom to prevail and they demonstrated time and time that they will make the ultimate sacrifice for any nation. Are they always right; no. Is it necessary at times; I will say yes but don't beat me up bad.Khaleel
Date: Wed, 28 Aug 2013 23:47:41 +0200
From: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [G_L] Obama considers military action against Syria
To: [log in to unmask]
Saiks.I wonder how you can say the US invaded those countries even after helping those countries people to remove dictatorship. Do you meant to say UK also invaded Sierra Leone?KejauSent from Samsung Mobile
-------- Original message --------
From: samateh saikou <[log in to unmask]>
Date:
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [G_L] Obama considers military action against Syria
I will be happy to know how one is certain that Asad is responsible .lets look at the following facts too.in may a un inspector claimed that it was the rebels who did the c-attact
,which was the original case, few days ago we have been reading leaks docs from weakilinks that Sadam with the blessiing of the US did use it,Now we all know what happened in Faluja,right,which means there are nations who have no right to talk about moralTo Search in the Gambia-L archives, go to: http://listserv.icors.org/SCRIPTS/WA-ICORS.EXE?S1=gambia-l To contact the List Management, please send an e-mail to: [log in to unmask] ¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤To Search in the Gambia-L archives, go to: http://listserv.icors.org/SCRIPTS/WA-ICORS.EXE?S1=gambia-l To contact the List Management, please send an e-mail to: [log in to unmask] ¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤ To unsubscribe/subscribe or view archives of postings, go to the Gambia-L Web interface at: http://listserv.icors.org/archives/gambia-l.htmlTo Search in the Gambia-L archives, go to: http://listserv.icors.org/SCRIPTS/WA-ICORS.EXE?S1=gambia-l To contact the List Management, please send an e-mail to: [log in to unmask] ¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤
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