There is no doubt that removing an entrenched Dictator peacefully is never going to be a walk in the park, but also remember that the only thing he has going for him is the threat or willingness to use violence. Now, like Nyang, I have always held the belief that to pose a threat electorally starts with alliance of all political parties. Obviously, an alliance without the basic reforms, or making it very clear to Jammeh that we are willing to go the distance to make sure that elections are going to be at a minimum free and fair, cannot be compromised. The opposition will have to be able to reassure Gambians that not only can they win, but willing to stand with them and fight for their rights. The APRC cannot be seen as dictating the kind of elections that re going to be held, and that the opposition will have to use their massive numbers to demonstrate that this is a different ball game and all of us will have to play by the rules, or else. At no time can the opposition be seen as divided, consume by their own differences or weak in the eyes of the electorate. The majority of Gambians is ready for change, but they are yet to be convinced that there is a force out there that they can hang their hopes. If the opposition are willing, ready and take the fight to Jammeh, Gambians will rally behind them to bring down the APRC government. Now, Jammeh will never allow himself to be defeated electorally without a fight, but if we demonstrate to him that he does not have a monopoly on the use of violence or threat, he will have no choice but capitulate to the new realities. I am convinced that ultimately power belongs to the people, and the opposition should seize that opportunity and bring power back to the people. Jammeh can be defeated electorally, but it will take a different kind of strategy/tactic that we have employed in the past. As for Burama's postulation that we do not have to remove jammeh first in order to bring democracy is delusional. We will never be able to start the building blocks of democracy with Jammeh at the helm. Of course, there is no guarantee that defeating or eliminating Jammeh will bring democracy to the shores of the Gambia, but it is a safer bet that we have a better chance without him. Thank you ----- Original Message ----- From: "Burama Jammeh" <[log in to unmask]> To: [log in to unmask] Sent: Saturday, March 22, 2014 12:21:06 PM Subject: Re: [G_L] How to Bring down Yaya and Build Democracy - My Take in contrast to Burama Jammeh's Plan Rene I agreed with the basics of your posting. The question becomes - how do we organize and mobilize what needs to be organize and mobilize? What would these organized entities do? Where do we start this organization and mobilization knowing inside Gambia is very hostile? I wouldn't relitigate NADD debacle but it's worth stating that it was falling even before it was properly formed. To suggest they have started amassing political leverage is a stretch. The same reasons that hinder NADD formation are not foreign and are still within us. To think that another attempt will produce anything different is a fantasy. Regardless give it a try and I truly wish it good luck. Our answers lie on our understanding of the core/root problem, recognition and acceptance of our weak position, accept political reality and work from there on one step at a time. Essentially putting the building block together in the right sequence. That can't be removing Yahya first - we don't have the means at this point in time. We can only work our way towards it - that's real, practical and pragmatic. I don't say these things with any comfort. I want Yahya go like anyone else. How do we do it has no straigth answer and no answer with start with his removal as the first order of business. Many things needs to be done before we can do that. I am not with the crowd that want any which way. I surely don't know what that outcomes will be but I hate taking chances with politicians/soldiers generally speaking but particularly Africa. Judging by our pass and/or that of our subregion I want us dictate these processes rather than outsource it or surrender to someone else who is very likely to furthermore abuse is. Regards Burama On Saturday, March 22, 2014, < [log in to unmask] > wrote: Demba, There are two groups who can restrain the government or force them to make concessions. The political parties and civil society organizations. The problem is none has been organized and mobilized to the level where they can amass that "political leverage". The only other exception with political parties was when NADD was formed, and it has started to amass that political leverage to the extend that former president Obasango of Nigeria has to be involved to broker a deal between the opposition parties and the government. With respect to civil society activism in the country it is almost nil. Everyone accepts the status quo as it is and life goes on. The power that is embedded within the people remains latent and unorganized, until through an unrelated and seemingly benign incident bring all their frustrations and anger to the fore and all hell break loose. Rene ----Original Message----- From: dbaldeh < [log in to unmask] > To: GAMBIA-L < [log in to unmask] > Sent: Fri, Mar 21, 2014 10:16 pm Subject: Re: [G_L] How to Bring down Yaya and Build Democracy - My Take in contrast to Burama Jammeh's Plan Exactly my assertions all along Nyang. We have to have a willing and or restrained gov't in order to achieve significant changes in governing and political level playing field.. some of these are equal access to the national media, unfettered political activities purely base on merit, separation of powers just to name a few... only then can meaningful particiption of the citizenry be achieved... One have to be in a position of influence to help formulate policies. Good night Demba From my Android phone on T-Mobile. The first nationwide 4G network. -------- Original message -------- From: Musa Jeng Date:03/21/2014 7:08 PM (GMT-08:00) To: [log in to unmask] Subject: Re: [G_L] How to Bring down Yaya and Build Democracy - My Take in contrast to Burama Jammeh's Plan Nyang: With a few tweaking, I really like the direction of some of the issues you raised. Thank you From: "Modou Nyang" & lt;[log in to unmask] > To: [log in to unmask] Sent: Tuesday, March 18, 2014 7:55:49 PM Subject: Re: [G_L] How to Bring down Yaya and Build Democracy - My Take in contrast to Burama Jammeh's Plan Burama, Thank you for the forward of the “The Working Paper”. I will not be able to read it now but hopefully in the future will manage to go through it. But anyhow, if I am to rely on what you have shared so far in this topic I am sure to be clear with what you aiming at and referring to as a “national democratic vision” aimed at institutionalizing democracy in the Gambia. I think you know that I am a student of PDOIS hence is no stranger to the ideals and near deification of democracy. What I now see as the fundamental difference between the two of us is while you rally your hopes on the way to the institutionalization of democracy in the Gambia through a non-political approach, my stance is radically different. I subscribe to the school of thought advocated by Nkrumah that declared “seek ye the political kingdom and everything shall follow”. Burama, without the control of state power – the power to make laws, design policies and implement them, one is at a disadvantage if not at a total loss to directing the affairs of a state. Remember the dictum, that the state is the legitimate monopoly of force. And what is there the need of politics if not for the management and dispensation of the force of society? Burama, the lesson is that in politics power must be accrued in order for one to be able to direct the course of society. The magic course for me is political change to be followed next by institutional reform and building to enable the flourishing of democracy among the people. You challenged me to state in chronological order on how to effect political change in the Gambia. I will oblige you. 1. Build an alliance of opposition parties on the ground in partnership with all other forces outside of the country that are opposed to the regime in Banjul for the purpose of effecting change through the ballot box. 2. With such a grand alliance in place, they can table demands for electoral reform as a condition for their participation in the elections. With or without prior reform I am of the strong conviction that a grand opposition alliance can still manage an electoral victory against Yaya. 3. Reform or no reform, and whatever the election results turn out to be in the presidential race an opposition grand alliance can easily pull off a majority in the NA elections. With a deciding majority in the house Yaya’s fate is seal. Or if we wish to consider the other side even if Yaya’s party is to get a majority in the house the alliance can still manage a sizable minority that would require their endorsement before any legislation is to be passed in the assembly. While all this is working its self out a lot of work will have been going into the agitation, mobilization and organization of the people for change. The power of the alliance will ensure the safety and right to conduct their affairs as dictated by law. Any attempt to forcibly and illegally disrupt or deny them that right should then be resisted. This is what I mean by self-defense and what you term a call for violence. I do not hear those calling for violence mentioning elections in their discussions. I am also well aware that fixing of our democratic deficiency will not be accomplished in one election cycle. But in order for such arduous task to begin the factors impeding its commencement must be uprooted. Thanks Nyang On Tuesday, March 18, 2014 6:58 PM, Burama Jammeh & lt;[log in to unmask] > wrote: Rene Sometimes it appears you see my reasoning and at times not sure clear: Let me say this - probably there will be nothing we will do and/or say that has not been said and/or done. Yet we have a very mixed-up puzzle we need to rearrange before it can fit the casing. Gambians advocating for ‘The Republic and Democracy’ - on this we seem to think is a good idea. So far though all our efforts are at some point hang to party political operation. These has both reduce our ability to think other options but also made us part of the local mudsling of retail politicking. In short we lost our legitimate distinct identity. My reasoning is for 'us not seeking political office' through the ballot should operate as neutral as we can - and our only demand will be to institutionalize democracy regardless who is in office and/or seeking office. Yet these approach excludes no one but it’s no vehicle for anyone’s aspiration to the presidency. I must say am bemused still some think some reorganization/reshuffling of the opposition is out there that will win an election against Yahya. I say good luck! Sure there are many CSO of Gambians outside of our borders. The problem with our organizations is that most are really organization by name and by friends. Most can neither show registration of any kind nor any program/intent documents. Probably is safe to say none has enough resources to do the kind of advocacy, organization and mobilization needed. Hence I suggest A National Face! My hope is such a representative body of citizens will be constituted based on our purpose and expertise. CORDEG and/or something like that can do it provided the problem is well define and the strategies to pursue. I heard over the radio, CORDEG has things like agricultural improvement as goal and/or program. Am not sure how true this is because i haven’t read such paper……but it makes one stomach begin to boil should that be true. Are they political party seeking office (manifesto), are they government with some development programs……..what’s going on? When I suggest we need a NATIONAL DEFINITION OF THE PROBLEM(S) OF OUR STRUGGLE, many suggest am out of my mind. If true, here is the answer. Home based civil activity is critical but we have to graduate our phase-in into Gambia with millstones to reduce harm to the local people. On the question of political leverage, I will submit we have zero. Unfortunate many think home base should do this - why not us outside. It doesn’t really matter where but we are more opportune to do it better, cheaper and less danger. The nation(we) have not present an alternative body that others can listen to what they stand for. The supposed leverage of the supporters of political parties are at present unusable for reasons known to all of us. A National Face will represent our position internationally. They will work with citizens within the country to organize and mobile civil resistance. They will raise funds to finance our operations. But they will not support candidacies or parties against others. Over time this process will strangulate dictatorship, forced them to the negotiation tables. Hopefully one of the matters on that table will be Constitutional Overhaul which will surely affect election laws. Also on that table will be Restructuring Government, Separation of Powers, Decentralization of Governing to Regions, District and Villages. Etc! Along side a proper civic education and the elimination of fear of state reprisal - we can expect Gambians to make a free choice at subsequent ballots. That choice could be Yahya and/or anyone. Regardless who wins s/he governs as our laws dictate or s/he gets the booth. But to keep saying……….YAHYA IS THE PROBLEM AND MUST GO FIRST……….My QUESTION to anyone with such view………TELL ME HOW YOU WILL DO THAT. I definitely want him out but don’t know how as the first order of business Disclaimer…………THIS IS A LONG TERM UNDERTAKING! I’ve not seen any viable short term solution…………Share one if you have/know Burama On Mar 18, 2014, at 5:47 PM, [log in to unmask] wrote: -----Original Message-----From: Burama Jammeh & lt;[log in to unmask] >To: GAMBIA-L & lt;[log in to unmask] >Sent: Tue, Mar 18, 2014 6:23 amSubject: Re: [G_L] How to Bring down Yaya and Build Democracy - My Take in contrast to Burama Jammeh's PlanReneMost of what you said are nicely worded.As a practical matter how do we address each one of them? Which would be the most logical to start with? How do we remove Uahya? EtcWe seem to be good at is saying what is the problem or don't like but hardly offer alternatives. If elections are what you counting on - I say good luck! I hope to live to next election to share that result.I did not say democracy before democracy. It doesn't make much reason. What I said is removing and replacing a person will not earn us democracy. A case in point is the exchange of Jawara to Yahya - isn't it worst? Burama, if you don't mind I will just comment on the quotes below."My point is there must exist a feared democracy force that argued for democracy, educate, organize and mobile citizens to expand the home base of this force. The success of this force largely depend on not associating to someone's presidency agenda. A neutral stand for the Republic and Democracy."If I understand you, what you are suggesting is that there should exist an entity or entities whose sole preoccupation is to advance the cause of democracy in the country. In order to achieve this objective such entities will educate, organize and mobilize the citizens towards this end. And once the citizens are educated, organized and mobilized they will then become a formidable force to be reckon with in their desire to have a true and genuine democracy.If this is the position that is reflected in your statement above, I have no quarrel with it. In fact, it is a very noble idea. These are the sort of things that civil society organizations can be every effective in orchestrating.What I cannot understand is the linkage of this citizen's advocacy to someone's presidential agenda. Indeed, this should not be part of anyone's presidential agenda, however, people are free to support and sympathize with any presidential agenda. That is why we have political parties."Who can or do I reason can be the nucleus of this force - me, you and many others concern with the plight of Gambia." All of the above, me, you and many others concern. "How can we do that - since we have no standing army and elections and/orelection environment too bad to win......our best alternative to amass political leverage."The political leverage is within the people themselves. They are their own armies. You have said it yourself: you educate them, you organize them and you mobilize them. They will do the rest. "What do we need to do to amass such leverage - we have to have a define cause in writing, we have to present what I call national face of concern to the powers that be, raise findings and organize and mobile forces both within and outside of the border"Civil society and advocacy groups can amass political leverage on their own. Just look at what the diaspora civil society and advocacy groups are doing. Imagine if such activities were replicated inside the country. What these groups do or can do is different from what political parties do. We have to make the distinction.Rene"How long with it take to yield result - don't know the eaxact time frame but I wouldn't hestitate to tell you a long time is need."It's unrealistic those thinking next election is our chance. Many of such chances has come and go, yet we don't seem to reason why is not happening.I hope we're not entrenched but discussing with a view to reason what come from the other end. Thanks for your thoughtsBuramaOn Tuesday, March 18, 2014, & lt;[log in to unmask] > wrote:Burama, The problem with your postulations about a functioning democracy, is that the institutional framework for democracy must first be established before a democracy can be functional. You cannot have a functioning democracy where there is no democracy. This makes the whole premise of attaining a functional democracy where all the mechanics of a democratic dispensation are absent redundant.The political structures and culture in the country has been consolidated and passed from one republic to the other; and the only way for our quest for a democratic dispensation and culture to be realized is to forge a new beginning. How to forge this new beginning is the challenge that we are grappling with at the moment.I agree with Nyang that the constitutional framework that can engender a peaceful transition to a more democratic dispensation could be present, ¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤ To unsubscribe/subscribe or view archives of postings, go to the Gambia-L Web interface at: http://listserv.icors.org/archives/gambia-l.html To Search in the Gambia-L archives, go to: http://listserv.icors.org/SCRIPTS/WA-ICORS.EXE?S1=gambia-l To contact the List Management, please send an e-mail to: [log in to unmask] ¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤ ¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤ To unsubscribe/subscribe or view archives of postings, go to the Gambia-L Web interface at: http://listserv.icors.org/archives/gambia-l.html To Search in the Gambia-L archives, go to: http://listserv.icors.org/SCRIPTS/WA-ICORS.EXE?S1=gambia-l To contact the List Management, please send an e-mail to: [log in to unmask] ¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤