Burama I am not downplaying factor in resource utilisation. It is the publication that you reference that are giving us the only dominant narrative framing of population growth nexus natural resources causation. It becomes the only acceptable hypothesis. The resulting factor such as poverty international political economic power and power relation of resource use and control id always negated. Date: Fri, 30 May 2014 07:05:46 -0400 From: [log in to unmask] Subject: Re: What's Our Make-up & How Was/Is It Managed To: [log in to unmask] AbdouKarim You may have a point and am not disputing. Regardless increasing demand of any resources means scarcity. Population is one of the variables that with any increase will reduce either quality or quantity of a said resource. I have not seen a study that puts every blame of land degradation on population but surely a factor. Yes we are agrarian. Isn't that people in need of land for food production - hence more/faster depletion. As humans we can change from agrarian and/or improve on techniques. Isn't that management? International trade and debt, especially debt servicing for The Gambia is a problem. Again proper and inform management should ameliorate some of those problems. On the flip side trade is not only good but important. Fair trade is more a political phenomenon than it's economic. In economics trade is anchored on comparative advantage theorem. Unless you totally exclude and/or downplay the role of population increase we are in agreement. Regards Burama On Friday, May 30, 2014, abdoukarim sanneh <[log in to unmask]> wrote: Burama That is neomalthusian narrative. Population growth is always use as the cause and the results factor is negated. The results to resource degradation is beyond demographic narrative of population growth. We are an agrarian economy and so depend on natural resources for livelihoods. Poverty nexus land degradation is was negligent and population growth always take a center stage and becomes the dominant thesis. Do you look into international political economic issues such debt and its impact on mortgaging our natural resources in servicing debtors. Lack of fair trade and it's association poverty natural resources uses etc. Date: Fri, 30 May 2014 05:23:42 -0400 From: [log in to unmask] Subject: Re: What's Our Make-up & How Was/Is It Managed To: [log in to unmask] Abdoukarim Gambia is considered one of the overcrowded nation by all estimators including WHO’s Having 1.7million on about 11000 sq. km = 155 people/sq. km. Considering not all of the 11K is not land - some water, some forest, roads, etc is highly dense. Gambia at one time (some times in the 90s) used to be the fasted growing in the sub region. Not only due to natural birth but also the subregional conflicts contributed to that trench Estimates (WHO 2010) - 55% are living in the urban area - that means we are not symmetrically spread over the nation. Multi- factors contributed to resources degradation (resources in the broader sense) - some natural and others human. I can still try provide studies/sources that said so. I just stated few stats and never suggest Mathusianism, others and/or otherwise.Put it simply I never suggest we control people in favor of resources. In fact I asked question whether our poverty was a given or mismanagement. Thanks for your input. Burama On May 30, 2014, at 4:17 AM, abdoukarim sanneh <[log in to unmask]> wrote: Neo-malthusian framing of over population is very wrong. Poverty and political economy is the cause of resource degradation. Gambia is not an over populated country. Date: Thu, 29 May 2014 23:27:47 -0400 From: [log in to unmask] Subject: Re: What's Our Make-up & How Was/Is It Managed To: [log in to unmask] Demba, the Burama I know does not take no for an answer but i will advice that we narrow the focus of the discussion and take on population, land water, economy and governance separately, if we are to be effective. Some will argue that if you deal with governance the rest will fall in line. Jefferson put it nicely when he said we are all endowed with the right to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. Even China had to adopt these principles (yes in baby steps) before they became the world's factory. IMalanding Jaiteh -------- Original message -------- From: Demba Baldeh Date:29/05/2014 20:37 (GMT-05:00) To: [log in to unmask] Subject: Re: [G_L] What's Our Make-up & How Was/Is It Managed Interesting questions Burama. I guess with the land, population density, agriculture, forestry etc.. Dr. Jaiteh can help us. Him and I had a similar discussion that looked at our overpopulation, agricultural land and erosion. He is with us here and may have done some modern approach research into such data... Dr. can you help us with some insights? These are good observations... For me we are poorly managed but record keeping, reliable statistics are an epidemic problem. It would be interesting to look at population, resources vs economic development. China comes to mind with over a billion people but their economy and standard of living continue to improve.. Yet there is arguably no Democracy in China.. How do we reconcile those contradicting approaches... Does a nation have to have Democracy and them to develop? How about human rights? Interesting and stimulating questions.. Thanks Demba On Thu, May 29, 2014 at 7:52 AM, Burama Jammeh<[log in to unmask]> wrote: Estimates has it that at the dawn of independence we were less than 1/2 million people. Today extrapolated estimates put us at 1.7million people. Estimated average density of about 125 people/km Area - about 11K sq. km ¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤ To unsubscribe/subscribe or view archives of postings, go to the Gambia-L Web interface at: http://listserv.icors.org/archives/gambia-l.html To Search in the Gambia-L archives, go to: http://listserv.icors.org/SCRIPTS/WA-ICORS.EXE?S1=gambia-l To contact the List Management, please send an e-mail to: [log in to unmask] ¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤ ¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤ To unsubscribe/subscribe or view archives of postings, go to the Gambia-L Web interface at: http://listserv.icors.org/archives/gambia-l.html To Search in the Gambia-L archives, go to: http://listserv.icors.org/SCRIPTS/WA-ICORS.EXE?S1=gambia-l To contact the List Management, please send an e-mail to: [log in to unmask] ¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤ ¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤ To unsubscribe/subscribe or view archives of postings, go to the Gambia-L Web interface at: http://listserv.icors.org/archives/gambia-l.html To Search in the Gambia-L archives, go to: http://listserv.icors.org/SCRIPTS/WA-ICORS.EXE?S1=gambia-l To contact the List Management, please send an e-mail to: [log in to unmask] ¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤ ¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤ To unsubscribe/subscribe or view archives of postings, go to the Gambia-L Web interface at: http://listserv.icors.org/archives/gambia-l.html To Search in the Gambia-L archives, go to: http://listserv.icors.org/SCRIPTS/WA-ICORS.EXE?S1=gambia-l To contact the List Management, please send an e-mail to: [log in to unmask] ¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤