I suggest you initiate a discussion around this issue. Surely we will always have a leader - that's not the point. In fact is indispensable- no wonder we are still milling around. However where we stand today - -asking all to rally behind either Burama, Yahya, Ousainou, Halifa, Henry, etc. to first put them in office a the problem. That may not likely work well for all and the prove is in our own history. Ask Edward Singhateh today. On the other hand is easy to say I/we will coordinate but what is there to coordinate in the first place. For me there is no indifference to make Gambia a functioning democratic republic - you mentioned the elements earlier on. Who would say no those? Why then didn't we call upon those? Equally many will go for election reform agenda than an agenda promoting a candidacy of a person. We are talking the same - except I want us to rearrange the puzzle so all the pieces can be at the right place. ( its a jumbled up puzzle- we arrange it fits and we don't a heap of mess) I proposed a Natuonal Face - I don't see much need for geographic organizations besides supporting role to the national. But the national cannot be about electing someone at this point - it will not work. Not because I wouldn't want such outcome than what obtains. The current environment is not design to let that happen - so why are we fighting over it. Please initiate a national discussion Burama On Sunday, October 26, 2014, Demba Baldeh <[log in to unmask]> wrote: > Throughout history leadership has always been critical... A system cannot > be created without someone, some people leading it, equally true, leaders > cannot be effective without that system of checks and balances... We > shouldn't be afraid to lead or be willing to be led... System/leadership is > like the chicken and the egg... which one comes first... ??? > > Demba > > On Sun, Oct 26, 2014 at 3:04 PM, Burama Jammeh <[log in to unmask] > <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml',[log in to unmask]);>> wrote: > >> I agree with all you said about what is needed. I have the feeling many >> would agree too. >> >> Our problem - instead of directly go after those, we want to >> politically to elevate someone to do that for us. In theory that works but >> in practice hardly. Regardless of whether that will work or not the needed >> mobilization/organization is not likely going to happen we are all in it >> for someone or self. >> >> Creating a level playing field - a democratic republic. You already gave >> some/all what it means. This is common to us all! >> >> The more important part of your submission - how do we ensure the >> creation of that level playing field. >> >> My thought of forest counter fire comes handy. Few foresters and their >> laborers can't contain such huge fire - but can limit loses by ending it at >> some place with a counter fire. >> >> That's to say we're coming from weakness so can't directly confront >> Yahya. We have to have/develop some leverage for him to agree reform >> agenda. To do so we need to come together around an agenda. That agenda >> will dictate who is qualify enough to represent us. Surely the order in >> which we put all the pieces together may not follow as I stated but at some >> point those ingredients are needed for it to work. >> >> Am sure my views are not new to you! >> >> Burama >> >> On Sunday, October 26, 2014, Demba Baldeh <[log in to unmask] >> <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml',[log in to unmask]);>> wrote: >> >>> Organize to get our citizens actively engage in the political, social >>> and economic discourse for our country. The goal to me is once many people >>> are actively engaged the people will be able to pave a path. I am for >>> putting political pressure to force the regime to institute political >>> reform. Enfranchise the Gambian diaspora, decriminalize free speech, allow >>> active political activities without much restriction, institute term >>> limits... Your question is How Do We do this? That will be the central >>> agenda... citizens will explore the best way forward... we -the citizens - >>> will create the platform free of political patronage or affiliation... the >>> goal is to create some degree of level playing field.. >>> >>> What do you suggest? We have many people ready and willing.... >>> >>> Demba >>> >>> On Sun, Oct 26, 2014 at 2:17 PM, Burama Jammeh <[log in to unmask]> >>> wrote: >>> >>>> I like your optimist. I also like the efforts to organize. >>>> >>>> The problem though still remain what are we organizing for. I also >>>> think 'that what question' makes organizing elude us over the last 20 >>>> years. By and large we all clinched on to an interest and each assumes that >>>> interest is the best route to the ultimate goal. That's a possibility but >>>> not guaranteed- and if African/Gambian politics is any measure that's not a >>>> likely outcome. >>>> >>>> Am for direct organization against that ultimate goal while every >>>> interest group can remain you use the new found level playing field to your >>>> advantage freely and fairly. >>>> >>>> Am always ready - if for nothing but self. Am packed to go back home >>>> but couldn't for fear of my life. So I've skin in the game beyond >>>> simply being a citizen. >>>> >>>> Hope to play my part and continue to share my views as I see it. >>>> >>>> Burama >>>> >>>> On Sunday, October 26, 2014, Demba Baldeh <[log in to unmask]> wrote: >>>> >>>>> Yeap Burama. All the signs are there we just need to organize and >>>>> organize. Let's get the ball rolling. I think a lot of Gambians have come >>>>> to terms that we need change and if we don't bring that change through our >>>>> actions, change will be imposed on us again. Changing a government of any >>>>> kind which has grip on power is a difficult task... So again, I encourage >>>>> you to take a lead, let's not wait for someone to lead us, let's call for >>>>> discussions and actions... currently there is citizens again rallying >>>>> around a common purpose - mobilizing resources and fight at a position of >>>>> strength. We need the resources and the organization to get something >>>>> done... Are you up to a challenge to start organizing now? It is going to >>>>> take several attempts to get the right forces to take off but as long as we >>>>> don't stop we can make way... I look forward to joining like minded folks >>>>> to organize and organize... >>>>> >>>>> Demba >>>>> >>>>> On Sun, Oct 26, 2014 at 1:29 PM, Burama Jammeh < >>>>> [log in to unmask]> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> That's exactly part of that technique - those fighting forest fires >>>>>> know wind direction and intensity. >>>>>> >>>>>> Burama >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> On Sunday, October 26, 2014, Malanding Jaiteh <[log in to unmask]> >>>>>> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> Interesting way to counter fire but wise to check where the wind is >>>>>>> blowing before starting the back fire. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Says an old forester >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -------- Original message -------- >>>>>>> From: Burama Jammeh >>>>>>> Date:26/10/2014 12:40 (GMT-05:00) >>>>>>> To: [log in to unmask] >>>>>>> Subject: Re: [G_L] What Should We Do? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Would you be surprised if/when Yahya decreed marriage/divorce and >>>>>>> their terms? Would that be a trigger for you? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> What would you do then, if anything? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> When I worked at Forestry - we used back firing as a technique to >>>>>>> counter an advancing wildfire. Just a thought - how can we counter Yahya >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Burama >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On Saturday, October 25, 2014, Burama Jammeh < >>>>>>> [log in to unmask]> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Yahya overthrew our government - we didn't stop and some even >>>>>>>> rejoice over it! Probably they never like Yahya but their hate for Jawara >>>>>>>> was overriding. The same such traits are in our midst with our so called >>>>>>>> struggle. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Yahya illegality humiliated our people in the streets of Banjul and >>>>>>>> his kangaroo courts! >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Yahya unlawfully fired/hired our people from their earned >>>>>>>> government jobs! >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Some killed, other disappeared mysteriously and some in exile - no >>>>>>>> one is brought to justice over any or most of these events and our national >>>>>>>> security budget is larger than agriculture and health combined. For who's >>>>>>>> security all our meager tax dalasis are paying? >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Yahya has put public and private real estate to his name all across >>>>>>>> the country? Great leaders are measured for how much they improve the >>>>>>>> quality of livelihood of their people. If Yahya thinks Gambians buying ram, >>>>>>>> sugar and bread from one of his many outlets and/or turn the lands I his so >>>>>>>> called farms is development - we are probably taken aback pre-colonial era. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Recently Yahya ordered his arms men to stopped Muslims from praying >>>>>>>> at their chosen dates, time and places. By accepting such or fold behind >>>>>>>> our house doors - I question national commitment to faith. Although am >>>>>>>> probably the least moral Gambian but how about the teaching of Islam. I >>>>>>>> thought that should have been his last day in office if in fact he still >>>>>>>> hold alive. Oh my/our Gambia. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> What is left before we take our land? Waiting for so called >>>>>>>> triggers? Who're we that we can't seem to see the real problem? Each of us >>>>>>>> owe it to our people to take that nation forward - what have you done? >>>>>>>> Isn't it a shame with all the quality behind the names of people that come >>>>>>>> to mind in a second? Why are we so divided over the only thing that define >>>>>>>> us as a citizen of a nation? Why insisting over matters that are naturally >>>>>>>> divisive world over? >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Fellows lets come up with ideas/solutions of the REAL ISSUE! >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> We will never agree on the presidency of anyone person, no matter >>>>>>>> how idealistic we justify such a first step. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> However, regardless of who is in power, we as citizens have >>>>>>>> legitimate claims to make of our republic - with the right organization and >>>>>>>> mobilization we can push any government behind the laws of our people. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> A democratic republic regardless Yahya or Burama is the president >>>>>>>> or anyone else for that matter. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Although not our intent but our current strategies, if works, will >>>>>>>> result to removal of one dictate to be replace by another, even if that new >>>>>>>> guy/gal is Burama Jammeh. Our problem is one individual but a systemic >>>>>>>> problem. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Let's make our legitimate claim and never avoid it because is hard. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Burama >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On Friday, October 24, 2014, Burama Jammeh <[log in to unmask]> >>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Are you counting on next elections to remove Yahya? >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Are you hoping that Yahya will evaporate in thin-air? >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Are you hoping that venting frustration about him will bring him >>>>>>>>> to sanity to give up his grip over state? >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Are you hoping/wishing somebody will remove Yahya for us? Who's >>>>>>>>> s/he? >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Even if all or any of these happen- what's the best likely >>>>>>>>> outcome? Those that outcome meet your goal? In fact what's your/our goal? >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Please tell us one thing we could do that will lead us to what you >>>>>>>>> thing is the goal. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Burama >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> ¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤ To >>>>>>> unsubscribe/subscribe or view archives of postings, go to the Gambia-L Web >>>>>>> interface at: http://listserv.icors.org/archives/gambia-l.html >>>>>>> >>>>>>> To Search in the Gambia-L archives, go to: >>>>>>> http://listserv.icors.org/SCRIPTS/WA-ICORS.EXE?S1=gambia-l To >>>>>>> contact the List Management, please send an e-mail to: >>>>>>> [log in to unmask] >>>>>>> ¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤ >>>>>>> ¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤ To >>>>>>> unsubscribe/subscribe or view archives of postings, go to the Gambia-L Web >>>>>>> interface at: http://listserv.icors.org/archives/gambia-l.html >>>>>>> >>>>>>> To Search in the Gambia-L archives, go to: >>>>>>> http://listserv.icors.org/SCRIPTS/WA-ICORS.EXE?S1=gambia-l To >>>>>>> contact the List Management, please send an e-mail to: >>>>>>> [log in to unmask] >>>>>>> ¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤ >>>>>>> >>>>>> ¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤ To >>>>>> unsubscribe/subscribe or view archives of postings, go to the Gambia-L Web >>>>>> interface at: http://listserv.icors.org/archives/gambia-l.html >>>>>> >>>>>> To Search in the Gambia-L archives, go to: >>>>>> http://listserv.icors.org/SCRIPTS/WA-ICORS.EXE?S1=gambia-l To >>>>>> contact the List Management, please send an e-mail to: >>>>>> [log in to unmask] >>>>>> ¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤ >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> *"Be the change you want to see in the World"* >>>>> ¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤ To >>>>> unsubscribe/subscribe or view archives of postings, go to the Gambia-L Web >>>>> interface at: http://listserv.icors.org/archives/gambia-l.html >>>>> >>>>> To Search in the Gambia-L archives, go to: >>>>> http://listserv.icors.org/SCRIPTS/WA-ICORS.EXE?S1=gambia-l To contact >>>>> the List Management, please send an e-mail to: >>>>> [log in to unmask] >>>>> ¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤ >>>>> >>>> ¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤ To >>>> unsubscribe/subscribe or view archives of postings, go to the Gambia-L Web >>>> interface at: http://listserv.icors.org/archives/gambia-l.html >>>> >>>> To Search in the Gambia-L archives, go to: >>>> http://listserv.icors.org/SCRIPTS/WA-ICORS.EXE?S1=gambia-l To contact >>>> the List Management, please send an e-mail to: >>>> [log in to unmask] >>>> ¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤ >>>> >>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> *"Be the change you want to see in the World"* >>> ¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤ To >>> unsubscribe/subscribe or view archives of postings, go to the Gambia-L Web >>> interface at: http://listserv.icors.org/archives/gambia-l.html >>> >>> To Search in the Gambia-L archives, go to: >>> http://listserv.icors.org/SCRIPTS/WA-ICORS.EXE?S1=gambia-l To contact >>> the List Management, please send an e-mail to: >>> [log in to unmask] >>> ¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤ >>> >> ¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤ To >> unsubscribe/subscribe or view archives of postings, go to the Gambia-L Web >> interface at: http://listserv.icors.org/archives/gambia-l.html >> >> To Search in the Gambia-L archives, go to: >> http://listserv.icors.org/SCRIPTS/WA-ICORS.EXE?S1=gambia-l To contact >> the List Management, please send an e-mail to: >> [log in to unmask] >> <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml',[log in to unmask]);> >> ¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤ >> > > > > -- > *"Be the change you want to see in the World"* > ¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤ To > unsubscribe/subscribe or view archives of postings, go to the Gambia-L Web > interface at: http://listserv.icors.org/archives/gambia-l.html > > To Search in the Gambia-L archives, go to: > http://listserv.icors.org/SCRIPTS/WA-ICORS.EXE?S1=gambia-l To contact the > List Management, please send an e-mail to: > [log in to unmask] > <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml',[log in to unmask]);> > ¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤ > ¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤ To unsubscribe/subscribe or view archives of postings, go to the Gambia-L Web interface at: http://listserv.icors.org/archives/gambia-l.html To Search in the Gambia-L archives, go to: http://listserv.icors.org/SCRIPTS/WA-ICORS.EXE?S1=gambia-l To contact the List Management, please send an e-mail to: [log in to unmask] ¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤