Can democratic work because we've good men and women in government? I guess good is a relative term here! Burama On Sunday, October 26, 2014, Burama Jammeh <[log in to unmask]> wrote: > I suggest you initiate a discussion around this issue. > > Surely we will always have a leader - that's not the point. In fact is > indispensable- no wonder we are still milling around. > > However where we stand today - -asking all to rally behind either Burama, > Yahya, Ousainou, Halifa, Henry, etc. to first put them in office a the > problem. That may not likely work well for all and the prove is in our own > history. Ask Edward Singhateh today. On the other hand is easy to say I/we > will coordinate but what is there to coordinate in the first place. > > For me there is no indifference to make Gambia a functioning democratic > republic - you mentioned the elements earlier on. Who would say no those? > Why then didn't we call upon those? Equally many will go for election > reform agenda than an agenda promoting a candidacy of a person. > > > We are talking the same - except I want us to rearrange the puzzle so all > the pieces can be at the right place. ( its a jumbled up puzzle- we arrange > it fits and we don't a heap of mess) > > I proposed a Natuonal Face - I don't see much need for geographic > organizations besides supporting role to the national. But the national > cannot be about electing someone at this point - it will not work. Not > because I wouldn't want such outcome than what obtains. The current > environment is not design to let that happen - so why are we fighting > over it. > > Please initiate a national discussion > > Burama > > On Sunday, October 26, 2014, Demba Baldeh <[log in to unmask] > <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml',[log in to unmask]);>> wrote: > >> Throughout history leadership has always been critical... A system cannot >> be created without someone, some people leading it, equally true, leaders >> cannot be effective without that system of checks and balances... We >> shouldn't be afraid to lead or be willing to be led... System/leadership is >> like the chicken and the egg... which one comes first... ??? >> >> Demba >> >> On Sun, Oct 26, 2014 at 3:04 PM, Burama Jammeh <[log in to unmask]> >> wrote: >> >>> I agree with all you said about what is needed. I have the feeling many >>> would agree too. >>> >>> Our problem - instead of directly go after those, we want to >>> politically to elevate someone to do that for us. In theory that works but >>> in practice hardly. Regardless of whether that will work or not the needed >>> mobilization/organization is not likely going to happen we are all in it >>> for someone or self. >>> >>> Creating a level playing field - a democratic republic. You already gave >>> some/all what it means. This is common to us all! >>> >>> The more important part of your submission - how do we ensure the >>> creation of that level playing field. >>> >>> My thought of forest counter fire comes handy. Few foresters and their >>> laborers can't contain such huge fire - but can limit loses by ending it at >>> some place with a counter fire. >>> >>> That's to say we're coming from weakness so can't directly confront >>> Yahya. We have to have/develop some leverage for him to agree reform >>> agenda. To do so we need to come together around an agenda. That agenda >>> will dictate who is qualify enough to represent us. Surely the order in >>> which we put all the pieces together may not follow as I stated but at some >>> point those ingredients are needed for it to work. >>> >>> Am sure my views are not new to you! >>> >>> Burama >>> >>> On Sunday, October 26, 2014, Demba Baldeh <[log in to unmask]> wrote: >>> >>>> Organize to get our citizens actively engage in the political, social >>>> and economic discourse for our country. The goal to me is once many people >>>> are actively engaged the people will be able to pave a path. I am for >>>> putting political pressure to force the regime to institute political >>>> reform. Enfranchise the Gambian diaspora, decriminalize free speech, allow >>>> active political activities without much restriction, institute term >>>> limits... Your question is How Do We do this? That will be the central >>>> agenda... citizens will explore the best way forward... we -the citizens - >>>> will create the platform free of political patronage or affiliation... the >>>> goal is to create some degree of level playing field.. >>>> >>>> What do you suggest? We have many people ready and willing.... >>>> >>>> Demba >>>> >>>> On Sun, Oct 26, 2014 at 2:17 PM, Burama Jammeh <[log in to unmask] >>>> > wrote: >>>> >>>>> I like your optimist. I also like the efforts to organize. >>>>> >>>>> The problem though still remain what are we organizing for. I also >>>>> think 'that what question' makes organizing elude us over the last 20 >>>>> years. By and large we all clinched on to an interest and each assumes that >>>>> interest is the best route to the ultimate goal. That's a possibility but >>>>> not guaranteed- and if African/Gambian politics is any measure that's not a >>>>> likely outcome. >>>>> >>>>> Am for direct organization against that ultimate goal while every >>>>> interest group can remain you use the new found level playing field to your >>>>> advantage freely and fairly. >>>>> >>>>> Am always ready - if for nothing but self. Am packed to go back home >>>>> but couldn't for fear of my life. So I've skin in the game beyond >>>>> simply being a citizen. >>>>> >>>>> Hope to play my part and continue to share my views as I see it. >>>>> >>>>> Burama >>>>> >>>>> On Sunday, October 26, 2014, Demba Baldeh <[log in to unmask]> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> Yeap Burama. All the signs are there we just need to organize and >>>>>> organize. Let's get the ball rolling. I think a lot of Gambians have come >>>>>> to terms that we need change and if we don't bring that change through our >>>>>> actions, change will be imposed on us again. Changing a government of any >>>>>> kind which has grip on power is a difficult task... So again, I encourage >>>>>> you to take a lead, let's not wait for someone to lead us, let's call for >>>>>> discussions and actions... currently there is citizens again rallying >>>>>> around a common purpose - mobilizing resources and fight at a position of >>>>>> strength. We need the resources and the organization to get something >>>>>> done... Are you up to a challenge to start organizing now? It is going to >>>>>> take several attempts to get the right forces to take off but as long as we >>>>>> don't stop we can make way... I look forward to joining like minded folks >>>>>> to organize and organize... >>>>>> >>>>>> Demba >>>>>> >>>>>> On Sun, Oct 26, 2014 at 1:29 PM, Burama Jammeh < >>>>>> [log in to unmask]> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> That's exactly part of that technique - those fighting forest fires >>>>>>> know wind direction and intensity. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Burama >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On Sunday, October 26, 2014, Malanding Jaiteh <[log in to unmask]> >>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Interesting way to counter fire but wise to check where the wind is >>>>>>>> blowing before starting the back fire. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Says an old forester >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> -------- Original message -------- >>>>>>>> From: Burama Jammeh >>>>>>>> Date:26/10/2014 12:40 (GMT-05:00) >>>>>>>> To: [log in to unmask] >>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [G_L] What Should We Do? >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Would you be surprised if/when Yahya decreed marriage/divorce and >>>>>>>> their terms? Would that be a trigger for you? >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> What would you do then, if anything? >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> When I worked at Forestry - we used back firing as a technique to >>>>>>>> counter an advancing wildfire. Just a thought - how can we counter Yahya >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Burama >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On Saturday, October 25, 2014, Burama Jammeh < >>>>>>>> [log in to unmask]> wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Yahya overthrew our government - we didn't stop and some even >>>>>>>>> rejoice over it! Probably they never like Yahya but their hate for Jawara >>>>>>>>> was overriding. The same such traits are in our midst with our so called >>>>>>>>> struggle. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Yahya illegality humiliated our people in the streets of Banjul >>>>>>>>> and his kangaroo courts! >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Yahya unlawfully fired/hired our people from their earned >>>>>>>>> government jobs! >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Some killed, other disappeared mysteriously and some in exile - no >>>>>>>>> one is brought to justice over any or most of these events and our national >>>>>>>>> security budget is larger than agriculture and health combined. For who's >>>>>>>>> security all our meager tax dalasis are paying? >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Yahya has put public and private real estate to his name all >>>>>>>>> across the country? Great leaders are measured for how much they improve >>>>>>>>> the quality of livelihood of their people. If Yahya thinks Gambians buying >>>>>>>>> ram, sugar and bread from one of his many outlets and/or turn the lands I >>>>>>>>> his so called farms is development - we are probably taken aback >>>>>>>>> pre-colonial era. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Recently Yahya ordered his arms men to stopped Muslims from >>>>>>>>> praying at their chosen dates, time and places. By accepting such or fold >>>>>>>>> behind our house doors - I question national commitment to faith. Although >>>>>>>>> am probably the least moral Gambian but how about the teaching of Islam. I >>>>>>>>> thought that should have been his last day in office if in fact he still >>>>>>>>> hold alive. Oh my/our Gambia. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> What is left before we take our land? Waiting for so called >>>>>>>>> triggers? Who're we that we can't seem to see the real problem? Each of us >>>>>>>>> owe it to our people to take that nation forward - what have you done? >>>>>>>>> Isn't it a shame with all the quality behind the names of people that come >>>>>>>>> to mind in a second? Why are we so divided over the only thing that define >>>>>>>>> us as a citizen of a nation? Why insisting over matters that are naturally >>>>>>>>> divisive world over? >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Fellows lets come up with ideas/solutions of the REAL ISSUE! >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> We will never agree on the presidency of anyone person, no matter >>>>>>>>> how idealistic we justify such a first step. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> However, regardless of who is in power, we as citizens have >>>>>>>>> legitimate claims to make of our republic - with the right organization and >>>>>>>>> mobilization we can push any government behind the laws of our people. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> A democratic republic regardless Yahya or Burama is the president >>>>>>>>> or anyone else for that matter. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Although not our intent but our current strategies, if works, will >>>>>>>>> result to removal of one dictate to be replace by another, even if that new >>>>>>>>> guy/gal is Burama Jammeh. Our problem is one individual but a systemic >>>>>>>>> problem. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Let's make our legitimate claim and never avoid it because is hard. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Burama >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On Friday, October 24, 2014, Burama Jammeh < >>>>>>>>> [log in to unmask]> wrote: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Are you counting on next elections to remove Yahya? >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Are you hoping that Yahya will evaporate in thin-air? >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Are you hoping that venting frustration about him will bring him >>>>>>>>>> to sanity to give up his grip over state? >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Are you hoping/wishing somebody will remove Yahya for us? Who's >>>>>>>>>> s/he? >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Even if all or any of these happen- what's the best likely >>>>>>>>>> outcome? Those that outcome meet your goal? In fact what's your/our goal? >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Please tell us one thing we could do that will lead us to what >>>>>>>>>> you thing is the goal. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Burama >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> ¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤ To >>>>>>>> unsubscribe/subscribe or view archives of postings, go to the Gambia-L Web >>>>>>>> interface at: http://listserv.icors.org/archives/gambia-l.html >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> To Search in the Gambia-L archives, go to: >>>>>>>> http://listserv.icors.org/SCRIPTS/WA-ICORS.EXE?S1=gambia-l To >>>>>>>> contact the List Management, please send an e-mail to: >>>>>>>> [log in to unmask] >>>>>>>> ¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤ >>>>>>>> ¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤ To >>>>>>>> unsubscribe/subscribe or view archives of postings, go to the Gambia-L Web >>>>>>>> interface at: http://listserv.icors.org/archives/gambia-l.html >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> To Search in the Gambia-L archives, go to: >>>>>>>> http://listserv.icors.org/SCRIPTS/WA-ICORS.EXE?S1=gambia-l To >>>>>>>> contact the List Management, please send an e-mail to: >>>>>>>> [log in to unmask] >>>>>>>> ¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤ >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> ¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤ To >>>>>>> unsubscribe/subscribe or view archives of postings, go to the Gambia-L Web >>>>>>> interface at: http://listserv.icors.org/archives/gambia-l.html >>>>>>> >>>>>>> To Search in the Gambia-L archives, go to: >>>>>>> http://listserv.icors.org/SCRIPTS/WA-ICORS.EXE?S1=gambia-l To >>>>>>> contact the List Management, please send an e-mail to: >>>>>>> [log in to unmask] >>>>>>> ¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤ >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>>> *"Be the change you want to see in the World"* >>>>>> ¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤ To >>>>>> unsubscribe/subscribe or view archives of postings, go to the Gambia-L Web >>>>>> interface at: http://listserv.icors.org/archives/gambia-l.html >>>>>> >>>>>> To Search in the Gambia-L archives, go to: >>>>>> http://listserv.icors.org/SCRIPTS/WA-ICORS.EXE?S1=gambia-l To >>>>>> contact the List Management, please send an e-mail to: >>>>>> [log in to unmask] >>>>>> ¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤ >>>>>> >>>>> ¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤ To >>>>> unsubscribe/subscribe or view archives of postings, go to the Gambia-L Web >>>>> interface at: http://listserv.icors.org/archives/gambia-l.html >>>>> >>>>> To Search in the Gambia-L archives, go to: >>>>> http://listserv.icors.org/SCRIPTS/WA-ICORS.EXE?S1=gambia-l To contact >>>>> the List Management, please send an e-mail to: >>>>> [log in to unmask] >>>>> ¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤ >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> *"Be the change you want to see in the World"* >>>> ¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤ To >>>> unsubscribe/subscribe or view archives of postings, go to the Gambia-L Web >>>> interface at: http://listserv.icors.org/archives/gambia-l.html >>>> >>>> To Search in the Gambia-L archives, go to: >>>> http://listserv.icors.org/SCRIPTS/WA-ICORS.EXE?S1=gambia-l To contact >>>> the List Management, please send an e-mail to: >>>> [log in to unmask] >>>> ¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤ >>>> >>> ¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤ To >>> unsubscribe/subscribe or view archives of postings, go to the Gambia-L Web >>> interface at: http://listserv.icors.org/archives/gambia-l.html >>> >>> To Search in the Gambia-L archives, go to: >>> http://listserv.icors.org/SCRIPTS/WA-ICORS.EXE?S1=gambia-l To contact >>> the List Management, please send an e-mail to: >>> [log in to unmask] >>> ¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤ >>> >> >> >> >> -- >> *"Be the change you want to see in the World"* >> ¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤ To >> unsubscribe/subscribe or view archives of postings, go to the Gambia-L Web >> interface at: http://listserv.icors.org/archives/gambia-l.html >> >> To Search in the Gambia-L archives, go to: >> http://listserv.icors.org/SCRIPTS/WA-ICORS.EXE?S1=gambia-l To contact >> the List Management, please send an e-mail to: >> [log in to unmask] >> ¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤ >> > ¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤ To unsubscribe/subscribe or view archives of postings, go to the Gambia-L Web interface at: http://listserv.icors.org/archives/gambia-l.html To Search in the Gambia-L archives, go to: http://listserv.icors.org/SCRIPTS/WA-ICORS.EXE?S1=gambia-l To contact the List Management, please send an e-mail to: [log in to unmask] ¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤