Burama, you have to admit that in fact '*Yahya is the problem and a
problem'. *Are there other problems of course, will there be other problems
of course but as you often say Identify the problem before tackling the
solution... You must define* everything involving Yahya Jammeh as a
fundamenta*l *problem* before we find a solution to the other questions...
This is where the effort to find a solution will begin. I guarantee you the
fight for a functioning Democracy in Gambia and Africa in General will
outlive you and all of us here... we can only do our part to the best of
our abilities and let the next generation pick up where we left off.
Thanks to both of you for a fruitful discussion.... A journey with thousand
miles begin with a step... the restoration of the fight for democracy and
rule of law begins with elimination of Yahya Jammeh and his likes... with
or without him we will continue to fight...
Demba
On Tue, Nov 11, 2014 at 12:42 PM, Burama Jammeh <[log in to unmask]>
wrote:
> Malanding
>
> That's very clear!
>
> You're a big brother and mentor so I have no interest personalizing our
> discussion.
>
> Your rationale is problematic though! Yahya is a problem but not the
> problem. We couldnt progress because we made Yahay our goal. Because he's
> 800lbs and we are 10 lbs or less - it can't work.
>
> Our goal is and should be A Democratic Gambia. Simply digging this out
> will provide many outlets that you, me and all else can do something to
> begin the change. I will be Ben go further to predict that until we put our
> arms around this common legitimate claim ours all else will fail at some
> stage. No wonder 20 years of call to unity gone nowhere - b cause the
> agenda is not common.
>
> This notion that Yahya would/won't is self inflicted defeat. Why should we
> care Yahya when we opposed almost everything he does? Yahya is not and
> can't stop us. Yahya should In fact serve as a motivator for our cause.
>
> If you focus on message and not the messengers am confident you will see
> my view point. Is a different matter whether you agree or disagree.
>
> Burama
>
>
> On Tuesday, November 11, 2014, Malanding Jaiteh <[log in to unmask]>
> wrote:
>
>> Burama,
>> I will not question your sincerity or call you names. That is not who I
>> am. My point before and now is, little of the 6 points you listed can be
>> implemented while the proverbial "800 pound gorilla" is in the Gambia's
>> political space.
>>
>> Malanding
>>
>>
>> On 11/11/2014 1:06 PM, Burama Jammeh wrote:
>>
>> Malanding
>>
>> Good that you tell them elections against Yahya is not the way at this
>> point! I stopped a party earlier on and I also did; the party not listening
>> didn’t stop me, after all is Gambia and I have my equity.
>>
>> Not enough to stop there - because that means leaving it to divine.
>>
>> It also saddened me to hear you said "is there fight and not yours" -
>> where’re you in this? Its your fight and there is no one to do it for you.
>> This is one aspect of our problem - an enlightened like you amongst us
>> throw in the towel……….
>>
>> If you’re suggesting am pontificating and doing academic niceties - i
>> must admit I suspect that from your first respond. Instead of dwelling on
>> the merits/demerits of my posting but went to tell me there are many smart
>> Gambians. My interpretation of that is ‘am acting as smart ass’. Am not
>> bordered what you think am doing. Small or big I earned what I turned out
>> to be.
>>
>> My sincere efforts are directed to igniting interest to take on the
>> evil at home as i see it. I hope to convinced others - that’s all I can
>> task myself as an individual. If me writing down my views is pontification
>> or academic niceties - am proud to have such earned ability.
>>
>> Burama
>>
>>
>> On Nov 11, 2014, at 12:51 PM, Malanding Jaiteh <[log in to unmask]>
>> wrote:
>>
>> Burama,
>> Your question: "have you ever suggest to those busy trying for almost 20
>> years to put the opposition together for another election that Yahya is
>> calling shots in Banjul? "
>> My answer: Yes, way back in 1995. First we warned them not to participate
>> in elections with Yahya on the ballot. For that will effectively legitimize
>> his tenure and they did not heed! Then we asked them to come together as a
>> unified group (NADD), they did not heed. Now what do I say to them?
>> Nothing! It is their fight not mine.
>>
>> You see this democracy we all cherish in the United States was only
>> instituted AFTER they forced Her Majesty's British empire to reluctantly
>> give-up. And that was not done through pontification or academic niceties
>> either.
>>
>> Malanding
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On 11/11/2014 12:24 PM, Burama Jammeh wrote:
>>
>> Malanding
>>
>> Thanks!
>>
>> Now we are back to the good debate.
>>
>> Somewhere in my posting I said we can debate how this can be attain -
>> that suggests I know it will neither drop on the head of Yahya nor will he
>> be happy with our faces to embrace it.
>> In short something above, below and/or around Yahya has to happen - when
>> we did that; it will not be up to Yahya who calls shots in Banjul. We will
>> eventually call the shots
>>
>> Here is why am a bit troubled about your rationale ("Yahya will/will
>> not…")- have you ever suggest to those busy trying for almost 20 years to
>> put the opposition together for another election that Yahya is calling
>> shots in Banjul? Thought if he wouldn’t allow a constitution re-write
>> equally he wouldn’t allow anyone declare a winner in an election he’s the
>> contestant. That leaves us with nothing other than divine intervention
>>
>> My proposal was a strip-down version of my views - it only shows what
>> our end goals are to make Gambia ‘A Functioning Institutional Democracy’. I
>> didn’t put there what i think could be done to get there.
>>
>> I hope you would agree should democratic forces take over Gambia today
>> - we would need a better constitution (hence a rewrite); new rule of law
>> and due process regimes, build the capacity of our people (to sustain
>> democracy) and collect and manage basic social data for both inform
>> decision making and accountability
>>
>> I’m fully aware that we are currently at the end of weakness……our first
>> task should be to move to strength (amass political leverage) and only then
>> Yahya will have incentive to give-in to demands of a democratic movement of
>> the people of Gambia.
>>
>> This can’t and will neither be done by aliens nor by divine
>> intervention. It will be done by people of The Gambia hopefully led by
>> those you know to be smart amongst us.
>>
>> That’s my view! That’s all I share! My only one hope is to ignite
>> interest that we take another crack at it but from a different perspective.
>>
>> Burama
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Nov 11, 2014, at 11:55 AM, Malanding Jaiteh <[log in to unmask]>
>> wrote:
>>
>> Burama,
>> I am afraid I can not answer your many questions (time limitation) but
>> will assure you that I am not dismissing your proposal. All I am trying to
>> do is to put things in perspective. That "re-write of the constitution,
>> create environment and mechanisms to uphold the constitution" and the
>> like will not fly when Mr. Jammeh is calling the shots in Banjul.
>>
>> Malanding
>>
>>
>> On 11/11/2014 11:26 AM, Burama Jammeh wrote:
>>
>> Malanding
>>
>> Great biblical perspectives!
>>
>> What's wrong with what I proposed? Or shouldn't I throw that in the
>> chat room? Or did I suggest that there are short supply of smart Gambians?
>> Many questions.....
>>
>> Your take about how dictators behave is well placed. However I
>> couldn't connect it as a response to what I post. Unless you are alluding
>> to leave Yahya alone because he's too dangerous and his reactions are
>> unpredictable.
>>
>> To add - however crazy or dangerous Yahya and people like him maybe,
>> it's a problem for us to fix. No other person on the face of the earth will
>> do it for us. After 20 years and counting each of us should be able to tell
>> the other what we think is the best option. That wouldn't me the other will
>> agree but at least it shows........ That's what I did!
>>
>> To brush aside everything! Or to say no to everything! Or to hope that
>> the problem will go away by itself.....Or to rely on some devine
>> intervention! Or to wait for another coup....etc. will not happen and if it
>> does we will be trampled by the new sheriff.
>>
>> My hope is we use those histories you cited to shape our own destiny on
>> our own terms. We failed to fix the Jawara problem. Yahya came with the
>> promises to fix it and many danced - now we know he is worst.
>>
>> Where are the smart people? Are they truly smart? Why didn't they fix it?
>> Why did they create it? Maybe smart for the wrong reasons after all .......
>>
>> Are you suggesting my proposal has no merit? Are you suggesting we wait
>> for Devine intervention? Again I am not getting your point.
>>
>> Finally I will be glad we work behind close doors to come up with a
>> solution if that's the proffered approach. As there is no such efforts, at
>> least not known to me, I choose to put up my views in the public domain.
>> The purpose is to entice Gambians to begin some good work.
>>
>> Burama
>>
>>
>> On Tuesday, November 11, 2014, Malanding Jaiteh <[log in to unmask]>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Burama,
>>> It is not be about what you or I prefer, it is what the situation
>>> demands. The Gambia under Jammeh is nothing new in this world, from the
>>> "immortal" Pharoah in the people of the book to infamous mortals like
>>> Pinochet, Idi Amin, Bokassa, Samuel Doe, Mobutu, Saikou Toure, Saddam,
>>> Qadafi and now Campoare. All comes down to man consumed by urge to be
>>> alpha-dog among their peers. I am not a psycho-analyst but these people
>>> can hardly contained themselves when challenged. And history has taught us
>>> that none of these chaps wake up in morning and say they give-up or retire.
>>> In fact the contrary is true. To them each day is consumed by what can they
>>> do to last even longer, first making sure they "newlal" their hair as gray
>>> suggests mortality. In addition to maintaining their youthful image, they
>>> want to us to perceive them as daring machos who will bring down the sky if
>>> provoked! And they mean that too. Those infected by this power bug can not
>>> safe themselves, and literally have to be subdued!
>>>
>>> Subdue does not necessarily mean we must go to war. We were told the
>>> Pharoah was so powerful that the Almighty God had to be directly involved
>>> in his subdue! Our most recent mortals had to be wrestled, sometimes
>>> forcefully. The trouble is even in the dog world, a deposed alpha-dog is at
>>> best kicked out of the pack and often left to die a miserable death! Unlike
>>> you and I who do not live the life of alpha-dog, these guys know exactly
>>> what it means to lose and as such will do everything in their power to
>>> prolong their tenure! The fact is the longer these folks stay in control
>>> the more damage they do themselves, the country and people they claim to
>>> love.
>>>
>>> As to responding to you question on "how do we subdue the knife guy
>>> (Yahya) .."? The people of the book taught us that even the Almighty God
>>> conspired against the Pharoah by hiding from him the identity of "boy"
>>> (Musa) or his methods, whose destiny would be to end his rule. In other
>>> words, such methods are best discussed in backrooms and not chat rooms!
>>>
>>> Malanding
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On 11/11/2014 12:29 AM, Burama Jammeh wrote:
>>>
>>> Malanding
>>>
>>> Share how do we subdue the knife guy (Yahya) first - if that’s your
>>> preferred approach?
>>>
>>> If others preferred the various approaches you referred to - I
>>> preferred as in the original posting - where am I wrong?
>>>
>>> Burama
>>>
>>>
>>> On Nov 10, 2014, at 5:55 PM, Malanding Jaiteh <[log in to unmask]>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>> Burama,
>>> Some will argue that Mr. Jammeh's hold on the Gambia is no different
>>> from a lone guy holding hostage a bus load of passengers. It's all about
>>> "hedging one's bet". When life is threatened some prefer to "play dead"
>>> or "surrender the cash box" so to speak until they are sure what the future
>>> holds. Yes we can blame the "enablers", "collaborators" or the Almighty God
>>> who created mankind that raised the knife-wielding thug? Most people
>>> will want to first subdue the knife wielding maniac, " jump on the guy
>>> when the chance is right" before putting in place controls to avoid another
>>> incident.
>>>
>>> Malanding
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On 11/10/2014 4:35 PM, Burama Jammeh wrote:
>>>
>>> Your rationale at best is flawed and worst is wrong. You said bunch of
>>> smart people but one person (Yahya) trampled on is all. You may be right
>>> many smart people but our problem has nothing or little to do with
>>> smartness. After all of our political problems are the creation of these
>>> supposed smart people and not the farmers, vendors and tax drivers, etc.
>>> More importantly though, if your characterization of Yahya holds did you
>>> ever told other efforts such as contesting elections against Yahya is
>>> futile?
>>>
>>> I mentioned that in fact our laws weren't too bad but the
>>> implementation - that until enough requisite capacity obtain amongst our
>>> people functioning democracy will never show up at our shores.
>>> These problems started long before Yahya and likely to continue if we
>>> should succeed with the current election agenda. The only difference is -
>>> it will be another person.
>>>
>>> Let me agree with you for a moment - let the smart people come out and
>>> tell us what we can/could do. Is not enough to say Yahya is so bad that
>>> about 2 million population has not solution with all that smart people.
>>>
>>> I will submit that the supposed smart folks are our problem - they
>>> created everything that's wrong in country. Fifty years and counting - cut
>>> a check at the office of accountant general - 5 minutes later no one can
>>> trace its route with documentation.
>>>
>>> I salute the farmers, vendors, masoner, carpenters, tax drivers, etc.
>>> who pay their taxes and/or royalties and in return not loot the
>>> public coffer.
>>>
>>> This is not insinuating that every learned Gambian is bad - am only
>>> saying amongst them we grow all these problems.
>>>
>>> Burama
>>>
>>> On Monday, November 10, 2014, Malanding Jaiteh <[log in to unmask]>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Burama,
>>>> To answer your question at the end, this is pure poppycock to put it
>>>> mildly, as long as Mr. Jammeh calls the shots in Banjul! The Gambia's
>>>> problem is not about lack of smart people, or lack of good ideas or good
>>>> laws. The problem is twenty years ago someone decided to take the
>>>> government BY FORCE!! During these years he removed long-term civil
>>>> servants at will and without compensation for their service, incarcerated
>>>> citizens for refusing to give up their properties and businesses,
>>>> executed military officers for "conspiring against him" without the right
>>>> to a fair trial, and even denied the remains of opponents to be interred
>>>> in the Gambia. Go read the current constitution and tell me where such acts
>>>> are condone.
>>>>
>>>> Now how do you re-write the constitution, create environment and
>>>> mechanisms to uphold the constitution when Mr. Jammeh is calling the shots
>>>> in Banjul? Really?
>>>>
>>>> Malanding Jaiteh
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On 11/10/2014 1:32 PM, Burama Jammeh wrote:
>>>>
>>>> 1) Rewrite the constitution:
>>>>
>>>> - that recognizes The Gambia as a republic and the people have
>>>> collective responsibility to manage it (the constitution didn’t create the
>>>> republic)
>>>>
>>>> - that numerates our rights as a recognition but not creation
>>>> hence guarantee their maximum protection
>>>>
>>>> - create a limited, separated and decentralized governance
>>>> structure with clearly defined authorities
>>>>
>>>> - free the constitution of matters are should be legislated
>>>> such as parastatal divesture
>>>>
>>>> - limit the role of the presidency to half a page (font 11) and
>>>> the whole constitution 25 pages or less
>>>>
>>>> - etc
>>>>
>>>> 2) Create environment and mechanisms to uphold and defend the
>>>> constitution. This is difficult than writing one. This is where we have
>>>> always failed. Our constitution as is not terrible but the adherence is
>>>> almost 100% none existence. To ensure such will not be a one off activity
>>>> but multiple level and task efforts.
>>>>
>>>> 3) Rule of law the dictator of everything state
>>>>
>>>> 4) Due process of law dictator of everything state
>>>>
>>>> 5) Maintenance of basic social data for inform decision making and
>>>> accountability
>>>>
>>>> 6) Capacity building – a people can’t sustain democracy if they do
>>>> not acquire the requisite capacity to live a life of a democrat
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Numbers 2 is the most difficult task here. Numbers 6 is the most
>>>> important and is only possible with a tangible republican environment.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> This is the(a) only common agenda. This is the only agenda that
>>>> guaranteed equal opportunity Gambia for all of us.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Giving the current political and socioeconomic environment in The
>>>> Gambia and our disjointed struggle – how do we do this?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> The first essential step is communication…lets begin the discussion of
>>>> what really matters.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Burama
>>>> ¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤ To
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>>>>
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>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤ To
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>>>>
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>>>
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