Demba

Driving right now! Promised to get back with you.

Burama

On Monday, November 17, 2014, Demba Baldeh <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
Burama, 

FYI: The latest on Burkina Faso... If anybody told you a month ago that Campaore will be history and Burkina Faso will have an opportunity to rebuild itself you wouldn't have believed it... Certainly Compaore has been in power far longer than Jammeh 27 years. So when people talk about optimism and fighting everyday for change this is what we are talking about... Nothing absolutely nothing is guarantee in this world... As they say if you praying pray as if that is your last prayer, if you living live as you will never die... This is the cross road we are on... Making any society a functional democracy is as much a dream as me hoping and fighting for Jammeh to fall TODAY!!! 

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-africa-30076907 

Thanks

Demba

On Tue, Nov 11, 2014 at 6:56 PM, Musa Jeng <[log in to unmask]');" target="_blank">[log in to unmask]> wrote:
Burama:

I know of no one  who disagrees with the queries you highlighted in your white paper, and continue to make that democracy and its institution is the ultimate 
solution to the Gambia's political evolution. In addition, you have also argued that there is lot more to the Gambia's problem way before Jammeh and definitely not Jammeh alone, and in the absence of the building blocks of democracy, we will continue with the problem... a true argument. But, what the good Doctor, Demba and lots of people would also like you to understand is that, at this political juncture we will have to start with getting rid of Jammeh, and that is not Jammeh the person per se, but everything he represents. We will never be able to begin the implementation of the good things in your white paper, if we cannot come up with a plan to remove Jammeh, by all means necessary. Like Demba said, we can only do our part in this long journey to build democracy in the Gambia and allow the future generation to continue the necessary work of building and maintaining a true democracy. But, for us we are faced with the huge task of removing Jammnd, and that has to be the very task at hand for us.

Thank you

From: "Bma Jammeh" <[log in to unmask]');" target="_blank">[log in to unmask]>
To: "and, The" <[log in to unmask]');" target="_blank">[log in to unmask]>
Sent: Tuesday, November 11, 2014 8:06:40 PM
Subject: Re: [G_L] A 10-Year Agenda (By 2024) – Make Gambia A Functioning Institutional Democracy


Demba

The mad man is our own creation.

If those countries are any better then I will contend they have a more vibrant civil population than we do.

Burama

On Tuesday, November 11, 2014, Demba Baldeh <[log in to unmask]');" target="_blank">[log in to unmask]> wrote:
Am with you Burama... Words with action.. Whether you know it or not action is being actively taken. As Dr. Jaiteh said they are not for public forums.. Agitate, agitate and agitate... And yes Burama those countries have began the path to Democracy and it will be left to their citizens to make it happen.. We have not started because of the road block. And yes those countries are better as their citizens are not disappearing in thin area, their journalists are not being murdered, their students are not being massacre... as it happened in Gambia... Their Presidents are not claiming to cure aids or barren or Ebola... We have a mad man Burama..

Thanks and good night

Demba 

On Tue, Nov 11, 2014 at 4:27 PM, Burama Jammeh <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
Demba

All the countries you mentioned are no different from Gambia - one way or another. Just because they hold election or some transition. Isn't that what Gambia did some 18 years ago.

Don't fall to rhetoric. Am not against you in this struggle - but hoping will not cut it. Am simply being realistic!

I told you this before and I will repeat it - if we are that ready, aware, inform, needy, etc. as you claimed, why wait for another leader to utilize our new capabilities- let's begin with Yahya. After all you said he's the problem. Something is missing with that logic.

We can put words together, we can convince ourselves on this or that- Demba nothing will happen on our terms until we get up and start doing something about it. Its a hard work but we can do it. I happily call you to join me in that marketing.

Burama

On Tuesday, November 11, 2014, Demba Baldeh <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
Burama,

In Guinea Conakry a junior military officer took out Captain Dada who staged a military coup... What do we have in Guinea today? In Mali there was a military take over from Tumani Toure, what do we have in Mali today - a transition to civilian. In Guinea Bissau there was a military take over several of them- they just concluded an election and a civilian is in charge... Africa of yesterday and today are different. The world have seen what military cum civilian leaders are made up and they are not standing and watching... In Burkina Faso there is attempt to instill a military dictatorship - guess what is happening ECOWAS, AU and the International community are on them..pressure for civilian rule... 

Yes, the Gambian people are desperate for change and not any change but change that will give us the chance to redirect the fight for democracy... If there is any military push against Yahya I guarantee you that military will no longer survive in Gambia or enjoy the same benefits of the doubt that was given to Yahya... we learned our lesson the hard way. Gambian families whose love ones are disappearing or being incarcerated everyday and youths who are being arrested and detained are desperate and yes, I am desperate to get rid of Yahya by all means possible.. We will then draw new battle lines with the new reality of the world... Get him outta there through a bullet or what have you... He is an enemy of the nation period..

Demba 

On Tue, Nov 11, 2014 at 3:16 PM, Burama Jammeh <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
Demba

I want to think we are not that desperate to out source The Gambia problem to another military junta. SM Dibba and his NCP in some ways told us Jawara and PPP were up to no good - our response, he was jealous and tribalist. Yahya came we dance and surprised ourselves as the revelations of the commissions were strange. Whether am loved or not we will be faced with what am selling today - so my advice is to look at the messages and not the messengers.

You are wrong tomthink a supposed coup is legitimate because is against Yahya - it's in not lawful. That's not to say if someone remove Yahya by coup I will sadden.  One thing is almost certain a military coup will only produce a dictatorship. By stretching thought line of thought ( anything but Yahya) - the whole purpose of our struggle is muddied up and worth not our fight. We are better than that! 

Please look at Gambia as your/our goal. Only use Yahya's wrong as a motivation. I believe you will find an independent legitimate goal for your/our actions/inactions bigger than Yahya. Let's reclaim our republic - that's legitimate!

My immediate problem with the Yahya-obsessive-syndrome is the inenabling effect. Now it appears we have resigned to leaving it to Godly intervention. Isnt that sad with all our smart folks?

Nonetheless if I am shown practical political ways to remove Yahya - I will join that fight. But I will not support a military efforts - I rather stay quiet in US.

Burama 

On Tuesday, November 11, 2014, Demba Baldeh <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
There is a legitimate ground to stage a coup against Yahya. He continue to celebrate an illegal unconstitutional take over of a government and he continue to violate every aspect of the law of the land. So as much as I don't trust uniform men with power, I am damn well open to fighting another uniform men with a different reality of the world today than when Yahya came. We won't be burned three times Burama! We have learned enough.. full me once, twice shame on you.. the third time is on me...

Demba

On Tue, Nov 11, 2014 at 1:50 PM, Burama Jammeh <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
Demba 

My marketing role is to try convince you that - Yahya is a problem and not the problem.

Let's go after the problem - the end result will get rid of Yahya

Burama


On Tuesday, November 11, 2014, Demba Baldeh <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
Burama, you have to admit that in fact 'Yahya is the problem and a problem'. Are there other problems of course, will there be other problems of course but as you often say Identify the problem before tackling the solution... You must define everything involving Yahya Jammeh as a fundamental problembefore we find a solution to the other questions... This is where the effort to find a solution will begin. I guarantee you the fight for a functioning Democracy in Gambia and Africa in General will outlive you and all of us here... we can only do our part to the best of our abilities and let the next generation pick up where we left off.

Thanks to both of you for a fruitful discussion.... A journey with thousand miles begin with a step... the restoration of the fight for democracy and rule of law begins with elimination of Yahya Jammeh and his likes... with or without him we will continue to fight...

Demba

On Tue, Nov 11, 2014 at 12:42 PM, Burama Jammeh <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
Malanding

That's very clear!

You're a big brother and mentor so I have no interest personalizing our discussion.

Your rationale is problematic though! Yahya is a problem but not the problem. We couldnt progress because we made Yahay our goal. Because he's 800lbs and we are 10 lbs or less - it can't work.

Our goal is and should be A Democratic Gambia. Simply digging this out will provide many outlets that you, me and all else can do something to begin the change. I will be Ben go further to predict that until we put our arms around this common legitimate claim ours all else will fail at some stage. No wonder 20 years of call to unity gone nowhere - b cause the agenda is not common.

This notion that Yahya would/won't is self inflicted defeat. Why should we care Yahya when we opposed almost everything he does? Yahya is not and can't stop us. Yahya should In fact serve as a motivator for our cause. 

If you focus on message and not the messengers am confident you will see my view point. Is a different matter whether you agree or disagree.

Burama


On Tuesday, November 11, 2014, Malanding Jaiteh <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
Burama,
I will not question your sincerity or call you names. That is not who I am. My point before and now is,  little of the 6 points you listed can be implemented while the proverbial "800 pound gorilla" is in the Gambia's political space.

Malanding
 

On 11/11/2014 1:06 PM, Burama Jammeh wrote:
Malanding

Good that you tell them elections against Yahya is not the way at this point! I stopped a party earlier on and I also did; the party not listening didn’t stop me, after all is Gambia and I have my equity. 

Not enough to stop there - because that means leaving it to divine.

It also saddened me to hear you said "is there fight and not yours" - where’re you in this? Its your fight and there is no one to do it for you. This is one aspect of our problem - an enlightened like you amongst us throw in the towel……….

If you’re suggesting am pontificating and doing academic niceties - i must admit I suspect that from your first respond. Instead of dwelling on the merits/demerits of my posting but went to tell me there are many smart Gambians. My interpretation of that is ‘am acting as smart ass’. Am not bordered what you think am doing. Small or big I earned what I turned out to be.

My sincere efforts are directed to igniting interest to take on the evil at home as i see it. I hope to convinced others - that’s all I can task myself as an individual. If me writing down my views is pontification or academic niceties - am proud to have such earned ability.

Burama


On Nov 11, 2014, at 12:51 PM, Malanding Jaiteh <[log in to unmask]> wrote:

Burama,
Your question: "have you ever suggest to those busy trying for almost 20 years to put the opposition together for another election that Yahya is calling shots in Banjul? "
My answer: Yes, way back in 1995. First we warned them not to participate in elections with Yahya on the ballot. For that will effectively legitimize his tenure and  they did not heed! Then we asked them to come together as a unified group (NADD), they did not heed. Now what do I say to them? Nothing! It is their fight not mine.

You see this democracy we all cherish in the United States was only instituted AFTER they forced Her Majesty's British empire  to reluctantly give-up. And that was not done through pontification or academic niceties either.

Malanding 

 




On 11/11/2014 12:24 PM, Burama Jammeh wrote:
Malanding

Thanks!

Now we are back to the good debate.

Somewhere in my posting I said we can debate how this can be attain - that suggests I know it will neither  drop on the head of Yahya nor will he be happy with our faces to embrace it.
In short something above, below and/or around Yahya has to happen - when we did that; it will not be up to Yahya who calls shots in Banjul. We will eventually call the shots

Here is why am a bit troubled about your rationale ("Yahya will/will not…")- have you ever suggest to those busy trying for almost 20 years to put the opposition together for another election that Yahya is calling shots in Banjul? Thought if he wouldn’t allow a constitution re-write equally he wouldn’t allow anyone declare a winner in an election he’s the contestant. That leaves us with nothing other than divine intervention

My proposal was a strip-down version of my views - it only shows what our end goals are to make Gambia ‘A Functioning Institutional Democracy’. I didn’t put there what i think could be done to get there. 

I hope you would agree should democratic forces take over Gambia today - we would need a better constitution (hence a rewrite); new rule of law and due process regimes, build the capacity of our people (to sustain democracy) and collect and manage basic social data for both inform decision making and accountability

I’m fully aware that we are currently at the end of weakness……our first task should be to move to strength (amass political leverage) and only then Yahya will have incentive to give-in to demands of a democratic movement of the people of Gambia.

This can’t and will neither be done by aliens nor by divine intervention. It will be done by people of The Gambia hopefully led by those you know to be smart amongst us.

That’s my view! That’s all I share! My only one hope is to ignite interest that we take another crack at it but from a different perspective.

Burama


 
On Nov 11, 2014, at 11:55 AM, Malanding Jaiteh <[log in to unmask]> wrote:

Burama,
I am afraid I can not answer your many questions (time limitation) but will assure you that I am not dismissing your proposal. All I am trying to do is to put things in perspective. That "re-write of the constitution, create environment and mechanisms to uphold the constitution"  and the like  will not fly when Mr. Jammeh is calling the shots in Banjul.

Malanding


  On 11/11/2014 11:26 AM, Burama Jammeh wrote:
Malanding

Great biblical perspectives! 

What's wrong with what I proposed? Or shouldn't I throw that in the chat room? Or did I suggest that there are short supply of smart Gambians? Many questions.....

Your take about how dictators behave  is well placed. However I couldn't connect it as a response to what I post. Unless you are alluding to leave Yahya alone because he's too dangerous and his reactions are unpredictable.

To add - however crazy or dangerous Yahya and people like him maybe, it's a problem for us to fix. No other person on the face of the earth will do it for us. After 20 years and counting each of us should be able to tell the other what we think is the best option. That wouldn't me the other will agree but at least it shows........ That's what I did!

To brush aside everything! Or to say no to everything! Or to hope that the problem will go away by itself.....Or to rely on some devine intervention! Or to wait for another coup....etc. will not happen and if it does we will be trampled by the new sheriff.

My hope is we use those histories you cited to shape our own destiny on our own terms. We failed to fix the Jawara problem. Yahya came with the promises to fix it and many danced - now we know he is worst. 
 
Where are the smart people? Are they truly smart? Why didn't they fix it? Why did they create it? Maybe smart for the wrong reasons after all .......

Are you suggesting my proposal has no merit? Are you suggesting we wait for Devine intervention? Again I am not getting your point.

Finally I will be glad we work behind close doors to come up with a solution if that's the proffered approach. As there is no such efforts, at least not known to me, I choose to put up my views in the public domain. The purpose is to entice Gambians to begin some good work.

Burama


On Tuesday, November 11, 2014, Malanding Jaiteh <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
Burama,
It is not be about what you or I prefer, it is what the situation demands.  The Gambia under Jammeh is nothing new in this world, from the "immortal" Pharoah in the people of the book to infamous mortals like Pinochet, Idi Amin, Bokassa, Samuel Doe, Mobutu, Saikou Toure, Saddam, Qadafi and now Campoare. All comes down to man consumed by urge to be alpha-dog among their peers.  I am  not a psycho-analyst but these people can hardly contained themselves when challenged. And history has taught us that none of these chaps wake up in morning and say they give-up or retire. In fact the contrary is true. To them each day is consumed by what can they do to last even longer, first making sure they "newlal" their hair as gray suggests mortality. In addition to maintaining their youthful image, they want to us to perceive them as daring machos who will bring down the sky if provoked! And they mean that too. Those infected by this power bug can not safe themselves, and literally have to be subdued!

Subdue does not necessarily mean we must go to war. We were told the Pharoah was so powerful that the Almighty God had to be directly involved in his subdue! Our most recent mortals had to be wrestled, sometimes forcefully. The trouble is even in the dog world, a deposed alpha-dog is at best kicked out of the pack and often left to die a miserable death! Unlike you and I who do not live the life of alpha-dog, these guys know exactly what it means to lose and as such will do everything in their power to prolong their tenure! The fact is the longer these folks stay in control the more damage they do themselves, the country and people they claim to love.

As to responding to you question on "how do we subdue the knife guy (Yahya) .."?   The people of the book taught us that even the Almighty God conspired against the Pharoah by hiding  from him the identity of "boy" (Musa) or his methods, whose destiny would be to end his rule. In other words, such methods are best discussed in backrooms and not chat rooms!

Malanding





   On 11/11/2014 12:29 AM, Burama Jammeh wrote:
Malanding

Share how do we subdue the knife guy (Yahya) first - if that’s your preferred approach? 

If others preferred the various approaches you referred to - I preferred as in the original posting - where am I wrong?

Burama


On Nov 10, 2014, at 5:55 PM, Malanding Jaiteh <[log in to unmask]> wrote:

Burama,
Some will argue that Mr. Jammeh's hold on the Gambia is no different from a lone guy holding hostage a bus load of passengers.  It's all about "hedging one's bet".  When life is threatened  some prefer  to "play dead" or "surrender the cash box" so to speak until they are sure what the future holds. Yes we can blame the "enablers", "collaborators" or the Almighty God who created  mankind that raised the knife-wielding thug?   Most people will want to first  subdue the knife wielding maniac, " jump on the guy when the chance is right" before putting in place controls to avoid another incident.

Malanding








On 11/10/2014 4:35 PM, Burama Jammeh wrote:
Your rationale at best is flawed and worst is wrong. You said bunch of smart people but one person (Yahya) trampled on is all. You may be right many smart people but our problem has nothing or little to do with smartness. After all of our political problems are the creation of these supposed smart people and not the farmers, vendors and tax drivers, etc. More importantly though, if your characterization of Yahya holds did you ever told other efforts such as contesting elections against Yahya is futile?

I mentioned that in fact our laws weren't too bad but the implementation - that until enough requisite capacity obtain amongst our people functioning democracy will never show up at our shores. These problems started long before Yahya and likely to continue if we should succeed with the current election agenda. The only difference is - it will be another person.

Let me agree with you for a moment - let the smart people come out and tell us what we can/could do. Is not enough to say Yahya is so bad that about 2 million population has not solution with all that smart people.

I will submit that the supposed smart folks are our problem - they created everything that's wrong in country. Fifty years and counting - cut a check at the office of accountant general - 5 minutes later no one can trace its route with documentation.

I salute the farmers, vendors, masoner, carpenters, tax drivers, etc. who pay their taxes and/or royalties and in return not loot the public  coffer.

This is not insinuating that every learned Gambian is bad - am only saying amongst them we grow all these problems. 

Burama

On Monday, November 10, 2014, Malanding Jaiteh <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
Burama,
To answer your question at the end, this is pure poppycock  to put it mildly, as long as Mr. Jammeh calls the shots in Banjul! The Gambia's problem is not about lack of smart people, or lack of good ideas or good laws. The problem is twenty years ago someone decided to take the government BY FORCE!! During these years he removed long-term civil servants at will and without compensation for their service, incarcerated citizens for refusing to give up their properties and businesses,   executed military officers for "conspiring against him" without the right to a fair trial, and even denied the remains of  opponents to be interred in the Gambia. Go read the current constitution and tell me where such acts are condone.

Now how do you re-write the constitution, create environment and mechanisms to uphold the constitution when Mr. Jammeh is calling the shots in Banjul? Really?

Malanding Jaiteh




On 11/10/2014 1:32 PM, Burama Jammeh wrote:

1)    Rewrite the constitution:

-        that recognizes The Gambia as a republic and the people have collective responsibility to manage it (the constitution didn’t create the republic)

-        that numerates our rights as a recognition but not creation hence guarantee their maximum protection

-        create a limited, separated and decentralized governance structure with clearly defined authorities

-        free the constitution of matters are should be legislated such as parastatal divesture

-        limit the role of the presidency to half a page (font 11) and the whole constitution 25 pages or less

-        etc

2)    Create environment and mechanisms to uphold and defend the constitution. This is difficult than writing one. This is where we have always failed. Our constitution as is not terrible but the adherence is almost 100% none existence. To ensure such will not be a one off activity but multiple level and task efforts.

3)    Rule of law the dictator of everything state

4)    Due process of law dictator of everything state

5)    Maintenance of basic social data for inform decision making and accountability

6)    Capacity building – a people can’t sustain democracy if they do not acquire the requisite capacity to live a life of a democrat

 

Numbers 2 is the most difficult task here. Numbers 6 is the most important and is only possible with a tangible republican environment.

 

This is the(a) only common agenda. This is the only agenda that guaranteed equal opportunity Gambia for all of us.

 

Giving the current political and socioeconomic environment in The Gambia and our disjointed struggle – how do we do this?

 

The first essential step is communication…lets begin the discussion of what really matters.

 

Burama

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--
"Be the change you want to see in the World"
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--
"Be the change you want to see in the World"
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--
"Be the change you want to see in the World"
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--
"Be the change you want to see in the World"
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--
"Be the change you want to see in the World"
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