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Date: Mon, 26 Jul 1999 12:21:35 +0200
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From: Momodou Camara <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Join us at Ndey Jobarteh's Flat for a night get together
MIME-Version: 1.0
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Greetings Ndey, Saiks and Dr. Saine,
I hope this Ceesay kunda guy didn't eat all your food before you had a
chance to during the weekend? He even decided to leave the wife behind
inorder to eat her share.
These Ceesays, Jawos, Bojangs and Tourays eat so much that Gambia still
can't be self sufficient in food production:-)
Have a great week,
Momodou Camara
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Date: Mon, 26 Jul 1999 04:50:12 PDT
Reply-To: The Gambia and related-issues mailing list
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Sender: The Gambia and related-issues mailing list
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From: peter sanyang <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Marrying your dead brothers wife/ incest or social/religious
conformity?
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed
Hi Lers
Can somebody help me out with this strange realization about people marrying
their late brothers spouses in the event of their dead. I particularly find
this practice very distasteful and unwarranted. Is it that, this practice is
in conformity of Islam/christianity or is it a practice that some ethnic
groups within the Senegambia found appropriate and conducive in keeping the
family together and pure?
In keeping the family under one uniform umbrella, i don't particularly think
that warrants the acquisition of ur brother's wife and nor does it guarantee
the stability of the family. Well, these are just my thoughts and i will
welcome any learned response to these disturbing practice in my view.
Kittos
Peter
>From: Momodou Camara <[log in to unmask]>
>Reply-To: The Gambia and related-issues mailing list
><[log in to unmask]>
>To: [log in to unmask]
>Subject: Re: Join us at Ndey Jobarteh's Flat for a night get together
>Date: Mon, 26 Jul 1999 12:21:35 +0200
>
>Greetings Ndey, Saiks and Dr. Saine,
>I hope this Ceesay kunda guy didn't eat all your food before you had a
>chance to during the weekend? He even decided to leave the wife behind
>inorder to eat her share.
>
>These Ceesays, Jawos, Bojangs and Tourays eat so much that Gambia still
>can't be self sufficient in food production:-)
>
>Have a great week,
>Momodou Camara
>
>----------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>To unsubscribe/subscribe or view archives of postings, go to the Gambia-L
>Web interface at: http://maelstrom.stjohns.edu/archives/gambia-l.html
>
>----------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
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Date: Mon, 26 Jul 1999 15:08:40 +0200
Reply-To: The Gambia and related-issues mailing list
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: The Gambia and related-issues mailing list
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From: Falankoi Janneh <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: A suggestion to Gambia - L Managers
Hi everyone,
Given the importance of some of the various issues discussed in this
forum, I wish to suggest, if this has not already been taken care of,
that selection and compilation of such issues be started by management
to serve as a reference material in the future. For instance, if someone
is writing his thesis or seeking information on any of the issues being
debated here, one could always contact the managers for access to the
document even if he/she has to pay a token amount. I think Ebrima
Ceesay's proposed directory should be considered for inclusion in the
documentation.
I believe that the forum is palying a crucial role, not only in
establishing mutual understanding among its members, but providing
enabling environment for the discussion of various burning issues about
our motherland. No one knows which of us might be lucky to be part of
future governments of the Gambia, in which he/she might need such a
reference material to help in decision making and policy formulation in
order to suit the interest of the Gambian people more adequately. What
do you think guys?
Congratulations for the invaluable services you have sacrificed to
provide for us in this Bantaba.
Falankoi Janneh
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Date: Mon, 26 Jul 1999 09:26:53 -0400
Reply-To: The Gambia and related-issues mailing list
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Sender: The Gambia and related-issues mailing list
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From: "Malanding S. Jaiteh" <[log in to unmask]>
Organization: Michigan Technological University
Subject: Re: Marrying your dead brothers wife/ incest or social/religious
conformity?
MIME-Version: 1.0
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Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Peter,
I am sure that understanding the reasons behind the phenomenon of marrying
one's dead brother's wife or dead wife's sister (though a much rarer case)
would go a long way to answering your question. While I am no expert on this
topic, I do believe that the practice, like other practices in the
institution of marriage is out of social necessity than religious.
From a social perspective, given life expectancy in some of our societies
was no more than mid-30s (perhaps lower among male soldiers), it would not
be far fetched to assume that the need to ensure unity of the family,
security of the kids and of course the wellbeing of the family (given many
hands means better), were all reasons to justify the practice. There were
also cases when tragic loss of young wive/mother led to the marriage of the
sister to ensure continuity of family tie and the care and love for the
kids.
Whether the practice is necessary or guarantees stability these days, I
would wait for experience view.
Malanding Jaiteh
----- Original Message -----
From: peter sanyang <[log in to unmask]>
To: <[log in to unmask]>
Sent: Monday, July 26, 1999 7:50 AM
Subject: Re: Marrying your dead brothers wife/ incest or social/religious
conformity?
> Hi Lers
> Can somebody help me out with this strange realization about people
marrying
> their late brothers spouses in the event of their dead. I particularly
find
> this practice very distasteful and unwarranted. Is it that, this practice
is
> in conformity of Islam/christianity or is it a practice that some ethnic
> groups within the Senegambia found appropriate and conducive in keeping
the
> family together and pure?
>
> In keeping the family under one uniform umbrella, i don't particularly
think
> that warrants the acquisition of ur brother's wife and nor does it
guarantee
> the stability of the family. Well, these are just my thoughts and i will
> welcome any learned response to these disturbing practice in my view.
>
> Kittos
> Peter
>
>
> >From: Momodou Camara <[log in to unmask]>
> >Reply-To: The Gambia and related-issues mailing list
> ><[log in to unmask]>
> >To: [log in to unmask]
> >Subject: Re: Join us at Ndey Jobarteh's Flat for a night get together
> >Date: Mon, 26 Jul 1999 12:21:35 +0200
> >
> >Greetings Ndey, Saiks and Dr. Saine,
> >I hope this Ceesay kunda guy didn't eat all your food before you had a
> >chance to during the weekend? He even decided to leave the wife behind
> >inorder to eat her share.
> >
> >These Ceesays, Jawos, Bojangs and Tourays eat so much that Gambia still
> >can't be self sufficient in food production:-)
> >
> >Have a great week,
> >Momodou Camara
> >
>
>---------------------------------------------------------------------------
-
> >
> >To unsubscribe/subscribe or view archives of postings, go to the Gambia-L
> >Web interface at: http://maelstrom.stjohns.edu/archives/gambia-l.html
> >
>
>---------------------------------------------------------------------------
-
> >
>
>
> ______________________________________________________
> Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
>
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------
--
>
> To unsubscribe/subscribe or view archives of postings, go to the Gambia-L
> Web interface at: http://maelstrom.stjohns.edu/archives/gambia-l.html
>
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------
--
>
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Date: Mon, 26 Jul 1999 18:41:24 PDT
Reply-To: The Gambia and related-issues mailing list
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From: latjor ndow <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Concert to benefit 15 yr Gambian Leukemia patient - DC
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed
Greetings:
The world reknown Rahat Nusrat Fateh Ali Khan and the Qawwali Party will
perform live at the famous Lincoln Theater, on Friday August 6, 1999 at
8:00PM.
The concert will benefit in part Rohey Jobe, a 15 year old Gambian in need
of a bone marrow transplant estimated to cost $250 000 (two hundred and
fifty thousand dollars).
Below is the Press Release for the event. Also you may visit our web site
http://www.rootsfestival.com the official site for the concert for more
information.
Latjor
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Press Release. For Immediate Release--June 22, 1999
RAHAT NUSRAT FATEH ALI KHAN TO PERFORM IN WASHINGTON DC
WASHINGTON DC - Finally! Sufi Soul is here. The long awaited concert
performance featuring the sensational artist Rahat Nusrat Fateh Ali Khan and
his Qawwali Party will take place in Washington DC. The event is scheduled
for Friday August 6, 1999 at the famous Lincoln Theater located at 1215 U
Street NW, DC.
After a nearly two-year hiatus following Nusrat's death, Rahat and the party
will resume performances outside of Pakistan beginning in the summer season
of 1999, with a debut album for Sony Music scheduled for release in the year
2000.
Rahat's distinctive, high-pitched voice can be thrilling in its mystic leaps
of passion and, at other times, soothing in the sustained warmth of its
classical progressions, effortlessly embracing the elevating aesthetic of
qawwali tradition.
Rahat is the nephew of the legendary singer Nusrat Fateh Ali Khan (1949 -
1997) who in modern times, emerged as the central figure in qawwali music,
destined to carry the music to new audiences and, for the first time, beyond
the borders of the lands of its origins.
Nusrat and 'Party' were discovered and promoted by British pop star Peter
Gabriel through Gabriel's Real World record label and WOMAD international
festival production company beginning in 1988, creating a wave of interest
among listeners in the West.
Rahat, whom Nusrat called "my eyes upon the world", was the "second voice"
in Nusrat's party of thirteen musicians from the age of fifteen. A few
weeks before Nusrat's passing, in the summer of 1997, Nusrat formally
accorded the mantle of leadership of his group to Rahat in ceremonies in
Lahore, Pakistan.
The concert promises to live up to its international billing. Come an
experience an evening of passionate, elevating music for the spirit.
Part of the proceeds derived from the concert will go to benefit a 15 year
old Gambian (West African) girl suffering from Leukemia and in need of a
bone marrow transplant.
Roots Festival International
Tel: 301-593-5844
E-Mail: [log in to unmask]
http://www.rootsfestival.com
_______________________________________________________________
Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com
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Date: Mon, 26 Jul 1999 22:19:19 -0700
Reply-To: [log in to unmask]
Sender: The Gambia and related-issues mailing list
<[log in to unmask]>
From: ceesay <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Marrying your dead brothers wife/ incest or social/religious
conformity?
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Peter,
I would like to make a reply to your question re: Marrying your dead
brother's wife.
I am a Christian and am very well versed on the Hebrew scriptures of
the Holy Bible.
In the Mosaic Law, one of the laws stated that If a Man was married and
died before he fathered any sons with his wife, it was an obligation of
a brother of his to marry his wife in order to father a son to carry on
the dead husband's family name and lineage.
Now, that's about as far as I can go. I don't know which brother got
the honor, if the deceased brother had several brothers. I do believe
though, that even if the brother had his own wife, he could still marry
his dead brother's wife to father sons for his brother.
To be honest with you, it sounds like a "Man" thing to me. But, I
don't make the rules in this world, I just have to abide by them.
PEACE! Irie Ceesay
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Date: Mon, 26 Jul 1999 22:29:54 -0400
Reply-To: [log in to unmask]
Sender: The Gambia and related-issues mailing list
<[log in to unmask]>
From: "Habib Ghanim, Sr" <[log in to unmask]>
Organization: B & H, Inc.
Subject: Re: Marrying your dead brothers wife/ incest or
social/religiousconformity?
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Peter
It is un-Islamic and not allowed in any religion I know of. If it happens it must
be something new . I do not think it is true. Maybe a distant cousin sometimes
get to be called a brother or sister- The definition of that brother or sister
may not be from the same mother and father.
Just an assumption . I may be wrong but sometimes in Africa even someone from the
same village may be referred to as a brother or sister (not blood related)
Habib Diab Ghanim,Sr
peter sanyang wrote:
> Hi Lers
> Can somebody help me out with this strange realization about people marrying
> their late brothers spouses in the event of their dead. I particularly find
> this practice very distasteful and unwarranted. Is it that, this practice is
> in conformity of Islam/christianity or is it a practice that some ethnic
> groups within the Senegambia found appropriate and conducive in keeping the
> family together and pure?
>
> In keeping the family under one uniform umbrella, i don't particularly think
> that warrants the acquisition of ur brother's wife and nor does it guarantee
> the stability of the family. Well, these are just my thoughts and i will
> welcome any learned response to these disturbing practice in my view.
>
> Kittos
> Peter
>
> >From: Momodou Camara <[log in to unmask]>
> >Reply-To: The Gambia and related-issues mailing list
> ><[log in to unmask]>
> >To: [log in to unmask]
> >Subject: Re: Join us at Ndey Jobarteh's Flat for a night get together
> >Date: Mon, 26 Jul 1999 12:21:35 +0200
> >
> >Greetings Ndey, Saiks and Dr. Saine,
> >I hope this Ceesay kunda guy didn't eat all your food before you had a
> >chance to during the weekend? He even decided to leave the wife behind
> >inorder to eat her share.
> >
> >These Ceesays, Jawos, Bojangs and Tourays eat so much that Gambia still
> >can't be self sufficient in food production:-)
> >
> >Have a great week,
> >Momodou Camara
> >
> >----------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >
> >To unsubscribe/subscribe or view archives of postings, go to the Gambia-L
> >Web interface at: http://maelstrom.stjohns.edu/archives/gambia-l.html
> >
> >----------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >
>
> ______________________________________________________
> Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> To unsubscribe/subscribe or view archives of postings, go to the Gambia-L
> Web interface at: http://maelstrom.stjohns.edu/archives/gambia-l.html
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
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Date: Mon, 26 Jul 1999 22:49:48 -0400
Reply-To: [log in to unmask]
Sender: The Gambia and related-issues mailing list
<[log in to unmask]>
From: "Habib Ghanim, Sr" <[log in to unmask]>
Organization: B & H, Inc.
Subject: Re: Concert to benefit 15 yr Gambian Leukemia patient - DC
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
It sounds great .
Maybe they should define what percentage or part will go to Rohey.
My point is 1% or 30 % .
This is a good gesture and we should be grateful for any part as the saying goes
beggars have no choice.
I hope the organizers look into that point for clarity.
Thanks for the info . I will pass it on to the MCC community.
Habib Ghanim, Sr
latjor ndow wrote:
> Greetings:
> The world reknown Rahat Nusrat Fateh Ali Khan and the Qawwali Party will
> perform live at the famous Lincoln Theater, on Friday August 6, 1999 at
> 8:00PM.
>
> The concert will benefit in part Rohey Jobe, a 15 year old Gambian in need
> of a bone marrow transplant estimated to cost $250 000 (two hundred and
> fifty thousand dollars).
>
> Below is the Press Release for the event. Also you may visit our web site
> http://www.rootsfestival.com the official site for the concert for more
> information.
>
> Latjor
> ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
> Press Release. For Immediate Release--June 22, 1999
>
> RAHAT NUSRAT FATEH ALI KHAN TO PERFORM IN WASHINGTON DC
>
> WASHINGTON DC - Finally! Sufi Soul is here. The long awaited concert
> performance featuring the sensational artist Rahat Nusrat Fateh Ali Khan and
> his Qawwali Party will take place in Washington DC. The event is scheduled
> for Friday August 6, 1999 at the famous Lincoln Theater located at 1215 U
> Street NW, DC.
>
> After a nearly two-year hiatus following Nusrat's death, Rahat and the party
> will resume performances outside of Pakistan beginning in the summer season
> of 1999, with a debut album for Sony Music scheduled for release in the year
> 2000.
>
> Rahat's distinctive, high-pitched voice can be thrilling in its mystic leaps
> of passion and, at other times, soothing in the sustained warmth of its
> classical progressions, effortlessly embracing the elevating aesthetic of
> qawwali tradition.
>
> Rahat is the nephew of the legendary singer Nusrat Fateh Ali Khan (1949 -
> 1997) who in modern times, emerged as the central figure in qawwali music,
> destined to carry the music to new audiences and, for the first time, beyond
> the borders of the lands of its origins.
>
> Nusrat and 'Party' were discovered and promoted by British pop star Peter
> Gabriel through Gabriel's Real World record label and WOMAD international
> festival production company beginning in 1988, creating a wave of interest
> among listeners in the West.
>
> Rahat, whom Nusrat called "my eyes upon the world", was the "second voice"
> in Nusrat's party of thirteen musicians from the age of fifteen. A few
> weeks before Nusrat's passing, in the summer of 1997, Nusrat formally
> accorded the mantle of leadership of his group to Rahat in ceremonies in
> Lahore, Pakistan.
>
> The concert promises to live up to its international billing. Come an
> experience an evening of passionate, elevating music for the spirit.
>
> Part of the proceeds derived from the concert will go to benefit a 15 year
> old Gambian (West African) girl suffering from Leukemia and in need of a
> bone marrow transplant.
>
> Roots Festival International
> Tel: 301-593-5844
> E-Mail: [log in to unmask]
> http://www.rootsfestival.com
>
> _______________________________________________________________
> Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> To unsubscribe/subscribe or view archives of postings, go to the Gambia-L
> Web interface at: http://maelstrom.stjohns.edu/archives/gambia-l.html
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
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Date: Mon, 26 Jul 1999 22:45:27 -0700
Reply-To: The Gambia and related-issues mailing list
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: The Gambia and related-issues mailing list
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From: Ylva Hernlund <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: WASH. Summit on Africa July 21 Meeting Report (fwd)
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=X-UNKNOWN
Content-Transfer-Encoding: QUOTED-PRINTABLE
---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Mon, 26 Jul 1999 17:37:48 -0700
From: David Mozer <[log in to unmask]>
To: Wash St. Summit on Africa/ADWA-NW List <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Summit on Africa July 21 Meeting Report
Washington State Initiative on the National Summit on Africa
Open Meeting
Wednesday, July 21, from 7:30 to 9:00 P.M.,
Miller Community Center, 330 19th E (at East John, Capital Hill), Seattle W=
A.
MEETING REPORT:
Called to order at 7:40 PM
Attendance: More than 55 people attended the meeting, including at least 44=
Washington State residence from Coupeville to Olympia and at least a dozen=
people from the USAID African Business and Trade Delegation. Washington De=
legation Officials: Jean Lenz - Co-Chair, David Mozer - Co-Chair, Nancy Far=
rell - Co-Vice-Chair, Wendy Prosser - Co-Vice-Chair.
David Mozer, co-chairperson of the Washington State Delegation to the Natio=
nal Summit on Africa, opened the meeting and welcomed everyone from the pri=
vate sector, public sector, public-interest section and the African Busines=
s and Trade Delegation. And explained that this is intended to be a very in=
clusive process so everyone is whole heartedly welcome to all the meeting.
Linkages between Washington State and Africa were identified. In addition t=
o trade linkages there are numerous other linkages, including those in educ=
ation, culture and arts, government, religious, labor and non-governmental =
activities. A list of these is being collected on the web site, http://www.=
ibike.org/africasummit/ =20
The evening's agenda was then reviewed:
Purpose of the National Summit on Africa
Short-term project: selecting and sending a delegation to the National Summ=
it on Africa, Feb 2000.
Long-term project: forming a Washington State organization to raising aware=
ness about Africa
National Policy Plan of Action description, process and thematic areas and =
report from Pacific Regional Summit, San Francisco.
Human Rights
Sustainable Development
Education and Culture
Economics and Trade
Peace and Security
Discussion on delegate selection process.
Organizing fundraising committee
Setting a six-month schedule
Everyone present was then ask to introduction himself or herself and includ=
e a few words about their connection to Africa.
Purpose of the National Summit on Africa:
The National Summit on Africa is a non-profit, non-partisan, and inclusive =
nationwide effort working for the betterment of U.S.-Africa relations by=20
a.. educating the American public about Africa;=20
b.. broadening and strengthening the network of Africa's supporters in th=
e U.S.; and=20
c.. developing a shared National Policy Plan of Action for mutually benef=
icial relations between the U.S. and the countries of Africa.
The National Summit process is a three year project funded primarily by the=
Ford Foundation. It is designed to change the way the U.S. looks at and in=
teracts with the countries of Africa. The National Summit on Africa process=
will culminate in a national summit event in Washington, D.C., held from 1=
7-20 February 2000. The year 2000 national summit event is the finale offer=
ing all people resident in the U.S. the opportunity to help develop a strat=
egy to bring about that change. The event is intended to accomplish multipl=
e goals. Among its objectives are:=20
a.. to complete the Summit's National Policy Plan of Action and plan for =
its implementation;=20
b.. to strengthen existing organizations focused on U.S.-Africa relations=
;=20
c.. to organize a broader, stronger constituency base for Africa;=20
d.. to stimulate political debate; to increase business and people-to-peo=
ple linkages; and=20
e.. to educate the American public about Africa.=20
The outcome of the national summit event is intended to be a highly motivat=
ed, well mobilized cadre of people from all sectors of U.S. society who car=
e about Africa, and who have contributed to the formulation of a concrete p=
lan for bringing about real change.
Preceding the National Summit of Africa is a series of six regional summits=
(four of which have been held) and preparatory meetings at which all inter=
ested people can participate in public education activities and engage in d=
iscussions to develop policies to guide U.S.-Africa relations.
Thus, at the conclusion of the regional summit process, there will be six r=
egional policy plans of action (Southeast, Midwest, Northeast, Pacific, Mou=
ntain/Southwest, and New England). The regional policy plans of action cove=
ring the five thematic areas will then be consolidated into one Draft Natio=
nal Policy Plan of Action for U.S.-Africa Relations. This Draft National Po=
licy Plan of Action will serve as the working document at the national summ=
it event in Washington, D.C.
In February 2000 at which National Summit on Africa delegates representing =
all 50 states will meet to discuss, amend, and vote upon the Draft National=
Policy Plan of Action. The result of these deliberations (a structured and=
formalized process) will be a National Policy Plan of Action for U.S.-Afri=
ca Relations. This Plan will then be presented to policymakers in governmen=
t and to decision-makers in the private sector, including those in non-gove=
rnmental, corporate, education, labor, religious, media, and other sectors =
=97as a guide for U.S. relations with the countries of Africa in the new mi=
llennium.
Between now and next February we can solicit further recommendations on the=
future of U.S.-Africa relations from different sectors and constituencies =
within the state. The delegation will then bring this input (in the form of=
recommendations) to the national summit event in Washington, D.C., where i=
t will be considered, along with input from other state delegations, during=
discussion of the Draft National Policy Plan of Action.
(For more information on the above see the Delegate Handbook, http://www.af=
ricasummit.org/delegate.htm, section one.)
Locally we are looking at two tasks:
Short-term project: selecting and sending a delegation to the National Summ=
it on Africa, Feb 2000.
Long-term project: forming a Washington State organization to raising aware=
ness about Africa
Just to be clear, while there exists a national organization, for all inten=
ts and purposes there currently is no Washington State organization and no =
budget. It is what we make of it!
Explanation of the Draft National Policy Plan of Action and Report from the=
Pacific Coast Regional Summit.
Expert panels wrote the Draft National Policy Plan of Action s between 1996=
and 1998. The plan is divided into five thematic areas: Human Rights, Sust=
ainable Development, Education and Culture, Economics and Trade, and Peace =
and Security. (See http://www.africasummit.org/themes.htm) The same draft d=
ocuments are used as a basis for all the regional meetings. At the regional=
meeting there was a formal process for submitting changes to the draft Pla=
n of Action. The instructions were "to amend the recommendations and the bo=
dy of the text as you see fit."
The Pacific Regional Summit got a reputation for being an activist summit, =
adopting more changes to the draft plan than the previous regional summits.=
(see http://www.ibike.org/africasummit/prppa/ )
Discussion on delegate selection process
During the course of each regional summit, time was set aside for each stat=
e to caucus and elect delegates. However, we were not able to fill our full=
slate of delegates at the regional summit. In which case state delegation'=
s instructions were "to aim to elect or appoint at least a chairperson and/=
or vice-chairperson at the regional summit." Furthermore: "If a state is un=
able to elect its full slate of delegates at the regional summit, it is the=
responsibility of the chairperson and vice-chairperson to spearhead the ef=
fort of identifying the remaining delegates."
Anyone with an interest in working for the betterment of U.S.-Africa relati=
ons is eligible to stand as a delegate to the National Summit on Africa. Th=
e only qualifications are that each delegate:=20
i. must live in the state that she or he seeks to represent;=20
ii. must be prepared to take an active role in the state delegations activi=
ties;=20
iii. must be prepared to travel to Washington, D.C. to participate in the n=
ational summit event on Africa.=20
Delegates represent their state in the National Summit on Africa process. T=
he primary responsibilities of a delegate are:=20
i. To work with other delegates to organize state meetings and activities=
for purposes of a) obtaining policy recommendations on future U.S.-Africa =
relations; b) preparing for the national summit event in Washington, D.C.; =
and c) providing public education on U.S.-Africa relations. As such delegat=
es are expected to keep themselves fully informed about current events in A=
frica. It is therefore in the best interest of each delegation to meet peri=
odically to discuss these current events and their impact on U.S.-Africa re=
lations (particularly as they relate to the Summit's five themes).=20
ii. To use the Draft Policy Plan of Action and the regional policy plans =
of action (see above) to solicit further recommendations on the future of U=
=2ES.-Africa relations from different sectors and constituencies within the=
ir state. The delegation will then bring this input (in the form of recomme=
ndations) to the national summit event in Washington, D.C., where it will b=
e considered, along with input from other state delegations, during discuss=
ion of the Draft National Policy Plan of Action.
iii. To work with other delegates to identify three (3) priority policy p=
riorities on U.S.- Africa relations that each state would like to serve as =
the anchors of the final National Policy Plan of Action for U.S.-Africa Rel=
ations that will emerge at the national summit event. Please note that thes=
e 3 policy priorities are in addition to, not instead of, general recommend=
ations made under each of the five themes.=20
iv. Delegates help to raise funds that will enable their state delegation=
to travel to Washington, D.C. to participate in the national summit event.=
=20
v. Delegates work to develop a proposed follow-up mechanism that will hel=
p to ensure the implementation of the National Policy Plan of Action. This =
follow-up mechanism, along with those from other states, will be discussed =
at the national summit event.
(For more information on the above see the Delegate Handbook, http://www.af=
ricasummit.org/delegate.htm, section two.)
Fundraising=20
It is intended that no delegate has to pay their own way to Washington DC, =
but this will depend upon our collective success at fund raising. A half do=
zen people volunteered for the fund raising committee. The first meeting wi=
ll be held Monday, July 26. Contact Wendy Prosser for more details: WProsse=
[log in to unmask], or 206-461-6973.
Charting the Future
We have two local tasks:
a.. Short-term project: selecting and sending a delegation to the Nationa=
l Summit on Africa, Feb 2000.
b.. Long-term project: forming a Washington State organization, identifyi=
ng its mission, raising awareness about Africa
It was decided that both issues needed to be addressed in a separate "brain=
storming" meeting. The meeting is tentatively set for Sunday, August 8, fr=
om 3 to 6 PM, location to be announced.
The meeting was adjourned at 9:15 PM
Additional information is available at http://www.ibike.org/africasummit/ =
=20
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Date: Tue, 27 Jul 1999 11:14:38 +0000
Reply-To: The Gambia and related-issues mailing list
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: The Gambia and related-issues mailing list
<[log in to unmask]>
From: MUHAMMED CEESAY <[log in to unmask]>
Organization: London School of Hygiene & T. M.
Subject: Re: Marrying your dead brothers wife/ incest orsocial/religiousc
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From: [log in to unmask] (Habib Ghanim, Sr)
Reply-to: [log in to unmask]
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: Marrying your dead brothers wife/ incest orsocial/religiousc
Date: 27-Jul-99 2:29:54 +0000
Brother Habib Asalamu alaikum,
I am afraid I have to disagree that it is un-islamic. The famous
example was the marriage of Uthman ibn Afan (RA) to 2 daughters of
the prophet (SAW) successively after the death of the first and the
saying of the prophet (SAW ) that had he got another daughter
(unmarried) he would have given her to Uthman in marriage. ( the 2
daughters concerned I think were Umm Kulthum and Rukhayye- need to
check on this one). Also if you look at Surat Nisa (Women) the
marrying of one's deceased brother's/sister's spouse is not among the
prohibited circle. We only label something haram or halal which
Allah (SWT) decrees.
As to the wisdom of this age- old practice social cohesion and the
maintenance of family tradition in the interest of the children and
widow may be cited.
Ma' salaam
Dr M Mansour Ceesay
LSHTM
Peter
It is un-Islamic and not allowed in any religion I know of. If it happens it must
be something new . I do not think it is true. Maybe a distant cousin sometimes
get to be called a brother or sister- The definition of that brother or sister
may not be from the same mother and father.
Just an assumption . I may be wrong but sometimes in Africa even someone from the
same village may be referred to as a brother or sister (not blood related)
Habib Diab Ghanim,Sr
peter sanyang wrote:
> Hi Lers
> Can somebody help me out with this strange realization about people marrying
> their late brothers spouses in the event of their dead. I particularly find
> this practice very distasteful and unwarranted. Is it that, this practice is
> in conformity of Islam/christianity or is it a practice that some ethnic
> groups within the Senegambia found appropriate and conducive in keeping the
> family together and pure?
>
> In keeping the family under one uniform umbrella, i don't particularly think
> that warrants the acquisition of ur brother's wife and nor does it guarantee
> the stability of the family. Well, these are just my thoughts and i will
> welcome any learned response to these disturbing practice in my view.
>
> Kittos
> Peter
>
> >From: Momodou Camara <[log in to unmask]>
> >Reply-To: The Gambia and related-issues mailing list
> ><[log in to unmask]>
> >To: [log in to unmask]
> >Subject: Re: Join us at Ndey Jobarteh's Flat for a night get together
> >Date: Mon, 26 Jul 1999 12:21:35 +0200
> >
> >Greetings Ndey, Saiks and Dr. Saine,
> >I hope this Ceesay kunda guy didn't eat all your food before you had a
> >chance to during the weekend? He even decided to leave the wife behind
> >inorder to eat her share.
> >
> >These Ceesays, Jawos, Bojangs and Tourays eat so much that Gambia still
> >can't be self sufficient in food production:-)
> >
> >Have a great week,
> >Momodou Camara
> >
> >----------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >
> >To unsubscribe/subscribe or view archives of postings, go to the Gambia-L
> >Web interface at: http://maelstrom.stjohns.edu/archives/gambia-l.html
> >
> >----------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >
>
> ______________________________________________________
> Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> To unsubscribe/subscribe or view archives of postings, go to the Gambia-L
> Web interface at: http://maelstrom.stjohns.edu/archives/gambia-l.html
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
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Date: Tue, 27 Jul 1999 09:36:11 -0400
Reply-To: [log in to unmask]
Sender: The Gambia and related-issues mailing list
<[log in to unmask]>
From: M W Payne <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Marrying your dead brothers wife/ incest or
social/religiousconformity?
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Mr. Sanyang,
Both the Levirate and the Sororate are ancient forms of marriage which were,
presumably, established to preserve social relationships between families as
corporate entities, as well as other things. The Levirate has both social as
well as religious mandates. The Sororate is a practice which has social
mandates, but I am not aware of any mandates which derive from the Talmud, Bible
or the Qur'an.
In Sororate marriage, upon the death of a wife, the deceased's sister and the
widower are obliged to marry, in order to preserve the family relationship
established by the marriage. Clearly in the past (and the not-too-distant past,
at that), marriages were seen more in terms of their political and social utility
than they are commonly seen today. Thus alliances, and common social bonds could
be acquired and maintained through marriages. In such a way, arranged marriages
were very normal, as were sororate marriages
Similarly in Levirate marriage, upon the death of a husband, the man's brother is
obliged to marry the widow in order to preserve the family relationship
established by marriage, to provide economic support for the widow and children,
which issued from the marriage, and to provide the deceased with an heir.
Unfortunately, neither inter familial relationships, economic support are
currently seen as being of much importance as they once were in the past, as
relationships between families (in a number of cases) has been minimized (while
the ideal of "rugged individualism" has been lionized); arguably women are much
more economically independent than they were in the past (although far from being
on an equal economic footing with men), and heirs are considered to be of limited
importance, although the consideration is usually reserved for a direct
biological descendant of an individual.
Among Christians and Jews the Levirate was a practice which was well recognized,
as being an aspect of Mosaic Law. One of the purposes of the Levirate was to
provide an heir for the deceased individual, if no MALE child had issued from the
union. The first instance of this is seen in the Bible as early as the first
book of the Bible called Genesis. In Genesis 38, there is discussion of the
practice, which apparently, was already part of custom at that point. The
discussion revolves around the sons of Judah and Shua, named Er, Onan, and
Shelah. Er was married, in an apparently arranged marriage, to a woman named
Tamar. However, because of his wickedness, God slew Er. Judah then commanded
the second son to "Go in t your brother's wife, and perform the duty of a
brother-in-law to her, and raise up offspring for your brother."
Onan, however, had other ideas. Knowing that the offspring from his union with
Er's wife would not be considered his own, but rather the child of Er, Onan
during his period of intimacy with Tamar "spilled his semen on the ground" so
that the wife would not become pregnant. Of course, God having seen Onan
shamelessly break the Law of Moses, slew Onan as well. This passage illustrates
the idea of its currency during this distant time period, as well as the idea
that people did not monolithically accept the practice. Certainly, Onan did
not. However, he paid the price for such wanton disregard for the Law as
received by Moses.
Sanction for the Levirate can be found in the Bible's book of Deuteronomy
25:5-10, which follows below. Note that within the passage from Deuteronomy,
there was an option for the man to refuse to marry his deceased brother's
widow. This refusal however, entailed a ritual which would sever relationships
between the two families, disgrace the reluctant brother, and allow the woman to
remarry outside of her deceased husband's family.
5 "If brothers dwell together, and one of them dies and has no son, the
widow of the dead man shall not be married to a stranger outside the family; her
husband's brother shall go in to her, take her as his wife, and perform the duty
of a husband's brother to her.
6 "And it shall be that the firstborn son which she bears will succeed to
the name of his dead brother, that his name may not be blotted out of Israel.
7 "But if the man does not want to take his brother's wife, then let his
brother's wife go up to the gate to the elders, and say, 'My husband's brother
refuses to raise up a name to his brother in Israel; he will not perform the duty
of my husband's brother.'
8 "Then the elders of his city shall call him and speak to him; and if he
stands firm and says, 'I do not want to take her,'
9 "then his brother's wife shall come to him in the presence of the elders,
remove his sandal from his foot, spit in his face, and answer and say, 'So shall
it be done to the man who will not build up his brother's house.'
10 "And his name shall be called in Israel, 'The house of him who had his
sandal removed.'
Thus, the same distaste which Mr. Sanyang expresses in his post against the
practice of the Levirate, was displayed against those who refused to uphold it.
From the above, we are shown that even the Almighty, disapproved of Onan's
disapproval of the practice (or more pointedly, his refusal to uphold his
familial obligation as cited in Law. Admittedly, none of this could reveal the
entire social and historical context of the Levirate, but it affords us an window
into the practice, as revealed in the Bible.
It should be noted that contemporary forms of Judaism have invalidated Levirate
marriage, although I have not been able to find anyone who could give me a
Talmudic reference for the cessation of this practice. I shall continue to
inquire into this, as this is a concern, which briefly summed up can be looked at
in this way "Can we ethically change that which we perceive to be the Law of God,
if our present social conditions, and mores deem specific practices socially
obsolete?" This is asked, as we are all well aware that everything which
happens, does so in very specific historical and social contexts. When the
historical and social contexts change, is there another [divine] law in
operation? If the answer to the primary question above is "yes" then what
constitutes significant social change, to warrant a change in the divinely
received law?
I must confess, however, that my initial impression concerning the Levirate with
regards to Islam was in error. I thought I had read in the Qur'an that the
Levirate was endorsed. However, if I did read it, I cannot find it now. The
closest I could get to this was the Sura Al Nisa (The Women), which mentions the
restrictions on who one could marry. In this lengthy listing of relationships
which were forbidden, the marriage between wife of one's deceased brother was not
among those mentioned.
22. Do not marry the women who were previously married to your fathers--existing
marriages are exempted and shall not be broken--for it is a gross offense, and an
abominable act.
23. Prohibited for you (in marriage) are your mothers, your daughters, your
sisters, the sisters of your fathers, the sisters of your mothers, the daughters
of your brother, the daughters of your sister, your nursing mothers, the girls
who nursed from the same woman as you, the mothers of your wives, the daughters
of your wives with whom you have consummated the marriage--if the marriage has
not been consummated, you may marry the daughter. Also prohibited for you are the
women who were married to your genetic sons. Also, you shall not be married to
two sisters at the same time--but do not break up existing marriages.
24. Also prohibited are the women who are already married, unless they flee their
disbelieving husbands who are at war with you. These are GOD's commandments to
you. All other categories are permitted for you in marriage, so long as you pay
them their due dowries. You shall maintain your morality, by not committing
adultery. Thus, whoever you like among them, you shall pay them the dowry
decreed for them. You commit no error by mutually agreeing to any
adjustments to the dowry.
Could one infer that the Levirate is sanctioned, as I believe it would
certainly have been a well known practice in the region at the time of the
revelation of the Qur'an? From my reading of the above Sura, it appears so, as
Al-Nisa notes that "All other categories are permitted for you in marriage, so
long as you pay them their due dowries." However, I am not competent in this
area, and would await the response of others, who are qualified. I am sure that
the scholars on the list will fill the void here.
M W P
peter sanyang wrote:
> Hi Lers
> Can somebody help me out with this strange realization about people marrying
> their late brothers spouses in the event of their dead. I particularly find
> this practice very distasteful and unwarranted. Is it that, this practice is
> in conformity of Islam/christianity or is it a practice that some ethnic
> groups within the Senegambia found appropriate and conducive in keeping the
> family together and pure?
>
> In keeping the family under one uniform umbrella, i don't particularly think
> that warrants the acquisition of ur brother's wife and nor does it guarantee
> the stability of the family. Well, these are just my thoughts and i will
> welcome any learned response to these disturbing practice in my view.
>
> Kittos
> Peter
>
--
Your life is God's gift to you; what you do with your life is your gift to God.
............
You teach a little bit by what you say, and a lot by what you do, when you think
others are not watching you.
----------------------------------------------------
If you have ICQ my ICQ# is 561816
You can download ICQ at http://www.icq.com/
----------------------------------------------------
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Date: Tue, 27 Jul 1999 13:21:13 -0500
Reply-To: Bamba Laye <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: The Gambia and related-issues mailing list
<[log in to unmask]>
From: Bamba Laye <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: The Interview Of Ex-President Jammeh / A different P.O.V.
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Sulayman Bajo, Et Al,
=20
I have been following your ramblings and arguments on the issue at hand =
with interest.
While I agree with you that there is a great deal of brilliant =
intellectuals living out side of The Gambia who can make a tremendous =
difference in National Development, your scepticism of their criticism =
of the present state of affairs has no justification.
I am yet to see you give a genuine reason for condemning criticism =
regardless of where it comes from.
I wonder if you are not aware or chose to ignore the fact that any =
leader that has his people at heart will be critical of himself and will =
not hesitate to invite criticism regardless of where it comes from as =
long as it is genuine and factual.
None of these "intellectuals" are going to sit here and narrate their =
life story to justify to you why they decided to stay away from Gambia =
just as you would not do the same. Everyone has a reason to decide where =
they want to be but that does not disqualify them of being critical of =
what is going on back home.
Speaking of "action", not every situation warrants immediate action =
Bro., I thought you knew this!=20
Why don't we look at the actual reasons behind the brain drain rather =
than jumping off the bat.=20
It is inherent of all humans to "sacrifice" only after fulfilling a =
certain level of self actualization. Nelson Mandela "sacrificed" 27 =
years of his life because he thought he and his people could not attain =
their desired level of self actualization with the system in South =
Africa at that time. Jammeh decided to take-over because he didn't think =
he and all Gambians could attain their desired level of self =
actualization with what was going on. My point is, we as humans, can =
only "sacrifice" either when we feel that we attained our targetted =
level of self actualization or feel that we will not lose anything more =
than we will be losing with the present state of affairs. I suggest you =
visit Herzberg on Motivation.
You, me or any other person are in no position to decide for the =
"intellectuals" how and when to "sacrifice".
It is very misleading to suggest to the people that if one cannot take =
action then they should not challenge the status quo with genuine =
constructive criticism.
The 21st. century is here, so work hard on your personal satisfaction =
bro. Good luck.
=20
Abdoulie Jallow
---Original Message-----
From: Dr. Amadou Janneh <[log in to unmask]>
To: [log in to unmask] <[log in to unmask]>
Date: Thursday, July 22, 1999 3:02 AM
Subject: Re: The Interview Of Ex-President Jammeh
Gambia-l:
=20
I have a few points to underscore.
YES: some of us did return to The Gambia after graduating from our =
various
universities;
some of us did give up our jobs in the West to serve in The =
Gambia;
some of us visit The Gambia regularly to see for ourselves; =
and
some of us did speak out during the Jawara era.
=20
Many of us will also continue to express our views regardless of who =
is in
power or where we decide to live. It's our democratic right to be =
critical
of the people governing our nation.
=20
Speaking of "ACTION": How long did it take for someone to "ACT" =
against "DR.
Doe", "Dr. Idi Amin Dada," or "Dr. Fafa" himself? And what kind of =
action do
we desire for our country? Do the people who ultimately take =
decisive (and
generally risky) action usually publicize their activities?
=20
Amadou Scattred Janneh
PS: Is Tennessee considered to be in the same neighborhood as =
Kentucky and
Ohio?
=20
=
-------------------------------------------------------------------------=
---
=20
To unsubscribe/subscribe or view archives of postings, go to the =
Gambia-L
Web interface at: =
http://maelstrom.stjohns.edu/archives/gambia-l.html
=20
=
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<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><STRONG><EM><FONT color=3D#000000 face=3D"Lucida Sans Unicode" =
size=3D2>Sulayman=20
Bajo, Et Al,</FONT></EM></STRONG></DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><EM><FONT color=3D#000000 face=3D"Lucida Sans Unicode"=20
size=3D2></FONT></EM></STRONG> </DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><EM><FONT face=3D"Lucida Sans Unicode" size=3D2>I have been =
following=20
your ramblings and arguments on the issue at hand with=20
interest.</FONT></EM></STRONG></DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><EM><FONT face=3D"Lucida Sans Unicode"=20
size=3D2></FONT></EM></STRONG><STRONG><EM><FONT face=3D"Lucida Sans =
Unicode"=20
size=3D2>While I agree with you that there is a great deal of =
brilliant=20
intellectuals living out side of The Gambia who can make a tremendous =
difference=20
in National Development, your scepticism of their criticism of the =
present state=20
of affairs has no justification.</FONT></EM></STRONG></DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><EM><FONT face=3D"Lucida Sans Unicode" size=3D2>I am yet to =
see you=20
give a genuine reason for condemning criticism regardless of where it =
comes=20
from.</FONT></EM></STRONG></DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><EM><FONT face=3D"Lucida Sans Unicode"=20
size=3D2></FONT></EM></STRONG><STRONG><EM><FONT face=3D"Lucida Sans =
Unicode"=20
size=3D2>I wonder if you are not aware or chose to ignore the fact that =
any leader=20
that has his people at heart will be critical of himself and will not =
hesitate=20
to invite criticism regardless of where it comes from as long as it is =
genuine=20
and factual.</FONT></EM></STRONG></DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><EM><FONT face=3D"Lucida Sans Unicode"=20
size=3D2></FONT></EM></STRONG><STRONG><EM><FONT face=3D"Lucida Sans =
Unicode"=20
size=3D2>None of these "intellectuals" are going to sit here =
and narrate=20
their life story to justify to you why they decided to stay away from =
Gambia=20
just as you would not do the same. Everyone has a reason to decide where =
they=20
want to be but that does not disqualify them of being critical of what =
is going=20
on back home.</FONT></EM></STRONG></DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><EM><FONT face=3D"Lucida Sans Unicode"=20
size=3D2></FONT></EM></STRONG><STRONG><EM><FONT face=3D"Lucida Sans =
Unicode"=20
size=3D2>Speaking of "action", not every situation warrants =
immediate=20
action Bro., I thought you knew this! </FONT></EM></STRONG></DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><EM><FONT face=3D"Lucida Sans Unicode" size=3D2>Why don't =
we look at=20
the actual reasons behind the brain drain rather than jumping off the =
bat.=20
</FONT></EM></STRONG></DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><EM><FONT face=3D"Lucida Sans Unicode"=20
size=3D2></FONT></EM></STRONG><STRONG><EM><FONT face=3D"Lucida Sans =
Unicode"=20
size=3D2>It is inherent of all humans to "sacrifice" only =
after=20
fulfilling a certain level of self actualization. Nelson Mandela=20
"sacrificed" 27 years of his life because he thought he and =
his people=20
could not attain their desired level of self actualization with the =
system in=20
South Africa at that time. Jammeh decided to take-over because he didn't =
think=20
he and all Gambians could attain their desired level of self =
actualization with=20
what was going on. My point is, we as humans, can only =
"sacrifice"=20
either when we feel that we attained our targetted level of self =
actualization=20
or feel that we will not lose anything more than we will be losing with =
the=20
present state of affairs. I suggest you visit Herzberg on=20
Motivation.</FONT></EM></STRONG></DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><EM><FONT face=3D"Lucida Sans Unicode" size=3D2>You, me or =
any other=20
person are in no position to decide for the "intellectuals" =
how and=20
when to "sacrifice".</FONT></EM></STRONG></DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><EM><FONT face=3D"Lucida Sans Unicode"=20
size=3D2></FONT></EM></STRONG><STRONG><EM><FONT face=3D"Lucida Sans =
Unicode"=20
size=3D2>It is very misleading to suggest to the people that if one =
cannot take=20
action then they should not challenge the status quo with genuine =
constructive=20
criticism.</FONT></EM></STRONG></DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><EM><FONT face=3D"Lucida Sans Unicode"=20
size=3D2>T</FONT></EM></STRONG><STRONG><EM><FONT face=3D"Lucida Sans =
Unicode"=20
size=3D2>he 21st. century is here, so work hard on your personal =
satisfaction bro.=20
Good luck.</FONT></EM></STRONG></DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><EM><FONT face=3D"Lucida Sans Unicode"=20
size=3D2></FONT></EM></STRONG> </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><EM><FONT face=3D"Lucida Sans Unicode" size=3D2><FONT=20
color=3D#000000>Abdoulie </FONT>Jallow</FONT></EM></STRONG></DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><EM><FONT face=3D"Lucida Sans Unicode"=20
size=3D2></FONT></EM></STRONG><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><B>---Original =
Message-----</B><BR><B>From: </B>Dr. Amadou Janneh <<A=20
href=3D"mailto:[log in to unmask]">[log in to unmask]</A>><BR><B>To: =
</B><A=20
href=3D"mailto:[log in to unmask]">[log in to unmask]
.EDU</A>=20
<<A=20
href=3D"mailto:[log in to unmask]">[log in to unmask]
.EDU</A>><BR><B>Date:=20
</B>Thursday, July 22, 1999 3:02 AM<BR><B>Subject: </B>Re: The Interview =
Of=20
Ex-President Jammeh<BR><BR></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE=20
style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #000000 solid 2px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; PADDING-LEFT: =
5px"></FONT>Gambia-l:<BR><BR>I=20
have a few points to underscore.<BR>YES: some of us did return to =
The Gambia=20
after graduating from our=20
=
various<BR>universities;<BR> =
some=20
of us did give up our jobs in the West to serve in The=20
Gambia;<BR> some of us =
visit The=20
Gambia regularly to see for ourselves;=20
and<BR> some of us did =
speak out=20
during the Jawara era.<BR><BR>Many of us will also continue to =
express our=20
views regardless of who is in<BR>power or where we decide to =
live. =20
It's our democratic right to be critical<BR>of the people governing =
our=20
nation.<BR><BR>Speaking of "ACTION": How long did it =
take=20
for someone to "ACT" against "DR.<BR>Doe", =
"Dr. Idi=20
Amin Dada," or "Dr. Fafa" himself? And what kind of =
action=20
do<BR>we desire for our country? Do the people who ultimately =
take=20
decisive (and<BR>generally risky) action usually publicize their=20
activities?<BR><BR>Amadou Scattred Janneh<BR>PS: Is Tennessee =
considered to=20
be in the same neighborhood as Kentucky=20
=
and<BR>Ohio?<BR><BR>-----------------------------------------------------=
-----------------------<BR><BR>To=20
unsubscribe/subscribe or view archives of postings, go to the=20
Gambia-L<BR>Web interface at: <A=20
=
href=3D"http://maelstrom.stjohns.edu/archives/gambia-l.html">http://maels=
trom.stjohns.edu/archives/gambia-l.html</A><BR><BR>----------------------=
------------------------------------------------------<BR></BLOCKQUOTE></=
BODY></HTML>
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Date: Tue, 27 Jul 1999 23:02:18 -0400
Reply-To: [log in to unmask]
Sender: The Gambia and related-issues mailing list
<[log in to unmask]>
From: "Habib Ghanim, Sr" <[log in to unmask]>
Organization: B & H, Inc.
Subject: Re: Marrying your dead brothers wife/ incest orsocial/religiousc
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
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Thanks for the input
I checked it out later . I stand corrected
Habib
But it is not common practice -an exception rather than the rule
hdg
MUHAMMED CEESAY wrote:
> From: [log in to unmask] (Habib Ghanim, Sr)
> Reply-to: [log in to unmask]
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: Re: Marrying your dead brothers wife/ incest orsocial/religiousc
> Date: 27-Jul-99 2:29:54 +0000
>
> Brother Habib Asalamu alaikum,
> I am afraid I have to disagree that it is un-islamic. The famous
> example was the marriage of Uthman ibn Afan (RA) to 2 daughters of
> the prophet (SAW) successively after the death of the first and the
> saying of the prophet (SAW ) that had he got another daughter
> (unmarried) he would have given her to Uthman in marriage. ( the 2
> daughters concerned I think were Umm Kulthum and Rukhayye- need to
> check on this one). Also if you look at Surat Nisa (Women) the
> marrying of one's deceased brother's/sister's spouse is not among the
> prohibited circle. We only label something haram or halal which
> Allah (SWT) decrees.
>
> As to the wisdom of this age- old practice social cohesion and the
> maintenance of family tradition in the interest of the children and
> widow may be cited.
> Ma' salaam
>
> Dr M Mansour Ceesay
> LSHTM
>
> Peter
> It is un-Islamic and not allowed in any religion I know of. If it happens it must
> be something new . I do not think it is true. Maybe a distant cousin sometimes
> get to be called a brother or sister- The definition of that brother or sister
> may not be from the same mother and father.
> Just an assumption . I may be wrong but sometimes in Africa even someone from the
> same village may be referred to as a brother or sister (not blood related)
> Habib Diab Ghanim,Sr
>
> peter sanyang wrote:
>
> > Hi Lers
> > Can somebody help me out with this strange realization about people marrying
> > their late brothers spouses in the event of their dead. I particularly find
> > this practice very distasteful and unwarranted. Is it that, this practice is
> > in conformity of Islam/christianity or is it a practice that some ethnic
> > groups within the Senegambia found appropriate and conducive in keeping the
> > family together and pure?
> >
> > In keeping the family under one uniform umbrella, i don't particularly think
> > that warrants the acquisition of ur brother's wife and nor does it guarantee
> > the stability of the family. Well, these are just my thoughts and i will
> > welcome any learned response to these disturbing practice in my view.
> >
> > Kittos
> > Peter
> >
> > >From: Momodou Camara <[log in to unmask]>
> > >Reply-To: The Gambia and related-issues mailing list
> > ><[log in to unmask]>
> > >To: [log in to unmask]
> > >Subject: Re: Join us at Ndey Jobarteh's Flat for a night get together
> > >Date: Mon, 26 Jul 1999 12:21:35 +0200
> > >
> > >Greetings Ndey, Saiks and Dr. Saine,
> > >I hope this Ceesay kunda guy didn't eat all your food before you had a
> > >chance to during the weekend? He even decided to leave the wife behind
> > >inorder to eat her share.
> > >
> > >These Ceesays, Jawos, Bojangs and Tourays eat so much that Gambia still
> > >can't be self sufficient in food production:-)
> > >
> > >Have a great week,
> > >Momodou Camara
> > >
> > >----------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > >
> > >To unsubscribe/subscribe or view archives of postings, go to the Gambia-L
> > >Web interface at: http://maelstrom.stjohns.edu/archives/gambia-l.html
> > >
> > >----------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > >
> >
> > ______________________________________________________
> > Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
> >
> > ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >
> > To unsubscribe/subscribe or view archives of postings, go to the Gambia-L
> > Web interface at: http://maelstrom.stjohns.edu/archives/gambia-l.html
> >
> > ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> To unsubscribe/subscribe or view archives of postings, go to the Gambia-L
> Web interface at: http://maelstrom.stjohns.edu/archives/gambia-l.html
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> To unsubscribe/subscribe or view archives of postings, go to the Gambia-L
> Web interface at: http://maelstrom.stjohns.edu/archives/gambia-l.html
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
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Date: Wed, 28 Jul 1999 00:06:57 EDT
Reply-To: The Gambia and related-issues mailing list
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: The Gambia and related-issues mailing list
<[log in to unmask]>
From: [log in to unmask]
Subject: fwd: Islamic Economics Banking and Finance Orientation Seminars...
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1"
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FYI. Level one is already completed, but l am sure interested persons can=20
obtain the resource materials from the organizers.
=20
=20
**********************************************************************
ISLAMIC ECONOMICS, BANKING & FINANCE ORIENTATION=20
SEMINARS 1999
MARKFIELD CONFERENCE CENTRE, RATBY LANE,=20
MARKFIELD, UK
LEVEL I May 20-24, 1999=20
LEVEL II September 23-27
=20
Organised by THE ISLAMIC FOUNDATION, UK =20
In co-operation with LOUGHBOROUGH UNIVERSITY, UK
& THE ISLAMIC DEVELOPMENT BANK, SAUDI ARABIA
=20
=20
OBJECTIVES AND AUDIENCE
=20
These orientation seminars provide exceptional opportunities for
studying various aspects of Islamic economics, banking and finance. The
seminars
are especially designed for bankers, accountants, students, researchers and
all those interested in both theory and practice of Islamic economics and
banking. The seminars will help in exploring, analysing and discussing
at length the issues and challenges of this fast-emerging discipline. They
also aim at providing the participants with a clear sense of direction as
well as guidance in the projects in which they are engaged.
=20
=20
CONTENTS
=20
LEVEL-I [May 20-24, 1999]
=20
=B7 Islamic Economics: Definition, Scope and Methodology
=B7 Islamic Economic System: A Comparative Approach
=B7 Basic Needs and Distributive Justice in Islam
=B7 Significance of Zakah and Awqaf as Islamic Economic Institutions
=B7 Insurance and Islam
=B7 Prohibition of Riba in Islam and Other Religions and its Economic =20
=20
Rationale
=B7 Prohibition of Interest in Western Literature
=B7 Principles of Islamic Finance
=B7 Modes of Islamic Finance
=B7 Islamic Banking in Theory and Practice
=B7 Islamic Banking: A Current Profile
=B7 Non-Banking Financial Institutions
=B7 Working of Islamic Bank: A Case Study
=B7 Islamic House Finance: The Canadian Experience
=B7 Panel discussions
=20
=20
LEVEL-II [September 23-27,1999]
=20
=B7 Present State of Islamic Economics: An Overview
=B7 Ethics and Economics: A Cross Cultural Comparison
=B7 Economic Development: Islamic and Western Perspectives
=B7 Public Policy Issues from an Islamic Perspective
=B7 Present State of Islamic Banking & Finance: An Overview
=B7 Islamic and Conventional Banking: A Comparative Study
=B7 Balance Sheet Analysis: Case Study of an Islamic Bank
=B7 Issues in Accounting Methods and Banking Supervision
=B7 Capital and Money Markets from an Islamic Perspectives
=B7 Financial Engineering: An Islamic Approach
=B7 Fixed Versus Variable Return Modes: An Economic Analysis
=B7 Structure of Islamic Financial Contracts
=B7 Challenges Facing Islamic Financing
=B7 Workshops
=B7 Panel discussions
=20
=20
VENUE
=20
The seminars will be held at Markfield Conference Centre, Markfield,
Leicestershire, which is located in a scenic area near the junction 22
of the Motorway M1. It is also well connected by rail and bus services
from London. More details are available on request.
=20
=20
SPEAKERS/RESOURCE PERSONS
=20
Prof. Khurshid Ahmad
Former Federal Minister and Deputy Chairman, Planning Commission,
Pakistan;
Chairman of the Institute of Policy Studies, Pakistan and of The
Islamic
Foundation, UK.
=20
Dr. Umer Chapra
Senior Advisor, Saudi Arabian Monetary Agency, Riyadh, Saudi Arabia=20
=20
Dr. Munawar Iqbal
Chief Islamic Banking and Finance, Division, IRTI, Islamic Development
Bank,
Jeddah, Saudi Arabia
=20
Dr. Anas Zarqa
Centre for Research in Islamic Economics, King Abdul-Aziz University,
Jeddah, Saudi Arabia
=20
Dr. Abdel Rahman Yousri,
Head, Department of Economics, Alexandria University, Egypt.
=20
Dr. Yousif Khalifa Al-Yousif
Professor of Economics, Al-Ain University, UAE
=20
Dr. Salman Syed Ali
Professor of Economics, The International Islamic University,
Islamabad,
Pakistan
=20
Prof. John Presley
Professor of Economics, Department of Economics, Loughborough
University,
U.K.
=20
Prof. Rodney Wilson
Professor of Economics, Department of Economics, Durham University,
U.K.
=20
Mr. Pervez Nasim
President, Islamic Cooperative Housing Corp. Ltd. Toronto, Canada.
=20
Dr.Humayon Dar
Department of Economics, Loughborough University, U.K.
=20
=20
SEMINAR FEES
=20
STUDENTS:=20
For one seminar =A3250 (Pound Sterling) for the 5 day-Seminar or =A360 per
day.For two seminars =A3400 (Pound Sterling) for the 10 days.
=20
NON-STUDENTS:=20
For one seminar =A3700 (Pound Sterling) for the 5 day-Seminar or =A3150 per
day. For two seminars =A31,200 for the 10 days.
=20
Seminar Fees include Study Material, Food (Three meals per day) and
Accommodation.
=20
Fees are reduced by 40%, if no accommodation is required.
Those registering before 30th April 1999 for the first Seminar and
before 31st August 1999 for the second Seminar will get 10% discount.
Those registering as student should provide proof.
Allocation of places is on first come first served basis
Seminar Certificates will be given to those who complete the Seminar.
=20
=20
FOR MORE INFORMATION
=20
Please contact:=20
Dr. Abdelkader Chachi, Co-ordinator, Islamic Economics Unit,
The Islamic Foundation, Markfield Conference Centre, Ratby Lane,
Markfield,
Leicestershire, LE67 9SY, UK . Tel.00-44-1530-244945, Fax:
0044-1530-244946=20
E-Mail: [log in to unmask]
=20
=20
APPLICATION FORM
=20
Please reserve a place for me on the 7th and 8th Intensive Orientation
Seminars on Islamic Economics, Banking and Finance to be held between
20th and 24th May and 23rd and 27th September 1999 at Markfield Conference
Centre, Markfield, UK
=20
I will attend (please tick as appropriate)
=20
Both Seminars ()
=20
Level I Full Seminar () 20/5 () 21/5 () 22/5 () 23/5 () =20
24/5 ()
=20
Level II Full Seminar () 23/9 () 24/9 () 25/5 () 26/9 () =20
27/9 ()
=20
=20
I enclose a cheque of __________(Pound Sterling) drawn on a British
Bank and
payable to the Islamic Foundation.
=20
Or debit my Credit Card: VisaCard () MasterCard () Delta ()=20
EuroCard ()
=20
Card Number _____________________________Expiry Date________________ =20
=20
=20
Name =20
_____________________________Occupation_________________________________
=20
=20
University/Company__________________________________________________________=
__
_
=20
=20
Address_____________________________________________________________________=
__
_
=20
Tel._______________ Fax__________________ =20
E-mail__________________________
=20
Signature__________________________________ =20
Date____________________________
=20
=20
=20
****************************************************************************=
**
*
=20
SEMINAR PROGRAMME FOR SEPTEMBER 1999
=20
COURSE CO-ORDINATORS:
=20
Islamic Economics: Dr. M.A. Al-Gari
Centre for Research on Islamic
Economics,=20
King Abdul-Aziz University, Jeddah,
Saudi Arabia
=20
Islamic Banking: Dr. S. Martan,=20
Chief, Islamic Banking Division,
National=20
Commercial Bank, Jeddah, Saudi Arabia
=20
Islamic Finance: Dr. Seif el-Din Tag el-Din National
Management =20
Consultancy, Jeddah, Saudi Arabia
=20
=20
Panel Discussions: Dr. Munawar Iqbal,=20
The Islamic Development
Bank,Jeddah,Saudi Arabia
=20
=20
THURSDAY 23rd SEPTEMBER
=20
09.30 - 11.00 Arrival & Registration
=20
11.00 - 12.30 Inaugural Session: Qur'an Recitation &
Inaugural Speeches =20
Prof. Khurshid Ahmad (Chairman, The Islamic
Foundation), =20
Dr. Manazir Ahsan (Director General, The
Islamic=20
Foundation) Professor T.W. Jones (Head,
Department of=20
Economics, Loughborough University), Dr. M.
Iqbal (Chief,=20
Islamic Banking and Finance Division, IRTI, The
Islamic=20
Development Bank, Jeddah, Saudi Arabia) & Dr.
A. Chachi=20
(Co-ordinator, The Islamic Economics Unit, The
Islamic=20
Foundation)
=20
12.30 - 14.30 Lunch, Prayer & Rest
=20
14.30 - 16.00 2nd Session: Islamic Economics (I)
Present State of Islamic Economics: An Overview
=20
Prof. Khurshid Ahmad, Former Federal Minister
and Deputy=20
Chairman, Planning Commission, Pakistan
=20
16.00 - 16.30 Break
=20
16.30 - 18.00 3rd Session: Islamic Economics (II)
Ethics and Economics: Case of the Islamic
Economic System
Dr. Munawar Iqbal, The Islamic Development
Bank, Jeddah,=20
Saudi Arabia
=20
18.00 - 19.00 Visit to the Islamic Foundation's Library and
facilities
=20
19.00 - 20.00 Dinner=20
=20
=20
FRIDAY 24th SEPTEMBER
=20
09.00 - 10.30 4th Session: Islamic Banking (I)
Present State of Islamic Banking and Finance=20
Dr. Mohammed Al-Gari, Director, Centre for
Research on=20
Islamic Economics, King Abdul-Aziz University,
Jeddah,=20
Saudi Arabia
=20
10.30 - 11.00 Break
=20
11.00 - 12.30 5th Session: Islamic Finance (I)
Structure of Islamic financial Contracts
Dr. Said Al-Martan, Chief Islamic Banking
Division,=20
National Commercial Bank, Jeddah, Saudi Arabia
=20
12.30 - 15.00 Lunch, Jum'a Prayer and Rest
=20
15.00 - 16.30 6th Session: Islamic Economics (III) =20
Fixed Versus Variable Return Modes: An Economic
Analysis=20
Dr. Seif Tag El Din, National Management
Consultancy,=20
Jeddah, Saudi Arabia
=20
16.30 - 17.00 Break=20
=20
17.00 - 18.30 7th Session: Panel Discussion, Chair: Dr. M.
Iqbal =20
Dr. M. Iqbal, Dr. M.A. Al-Gari, Dr. S. Tag El
Din, Dr. S.=20
Al-Martan
=20
18.30 - 19.30 Dinner=20
=20
=20
SATURDAY 25th SEPTEMBER
=20
0900 - 10.30 8th Session: Islamic Finance (II)
Capital and Money Market from an Islamic
Perspective=20
Dr. Yousif Khalifa Al-Yousif, Department of
Economics, Al- =20
Ain University, UAE
=20
10.30 - 11.00 Break
=20
11.00 - 12.30 9th Session: Islamic Economics (IV)
Economic Development: Islamic and Western
Perspectives=20
Prof. Rodney Wilson, Department of Economics,
Durham=20
University, UK.
=20
12.30 - 14.30 Lunch, Prayer & Rest
=20
14.30 - 16.00 10th Session: Islamic Finance (III)
Public Policy Issues from an Islamic
Perspective =20
Prof. Khurshid Ahmad, Former Federal Minister
and Deputy=20
Chairman, Planning Commission, Pakistan
=20
16.00 - 16.30 Break=20
=20
16.30 - 18.00 11th Session: Islamic Banking (II) =20
Working of an Islamic Bank: A Case Study
Dr. Said Al-Martan, Chief, Islamic Banking
Division,=20
National Commercial Bank, Jeddah, Saudi Arabia
=20
18.00 - 19.00 12th Session: Panel Discussion, Chair: Dr.
Munawar Iqbal =20
Prof. K. Ahmad, Dr. S. Tag El-Din, Dr. M.
Al-Gari, Dr. S.=20
Al-Martan
=20
19.00 - 20.00 Dinner
=20
SUNDAY 26th SEPTEMBER
=20
09.00 - 10.30 13th Session: Islamic Finance (IV) =20
Balance Sheet Analysis: A Case Study
Dr. Seif Tag El Din, National Management
Consultancy,=20
Jeddah, Saudi Arabia
=20
10.30 - 11.00 Break
=20
11.00 - 12.30 14th Session: Islamic Finance (V)
Financial Engineering: An Islamic Approach=20
Dr. Mohammed Al-Gari, Director, Centre for
Research on=20
Islamic Economics, King Abdul-Aziz University,
Jeddah,=20
Saudi Arabia
=20
12.30 - 14.30 Lunch & Rest
=20
14.30 - 16.00 15th Session: Islamic Banking (III) =20
The experience of Islamic Banks in Turkey
Dr. Mehmet Asutay, Co-ordinator, The
Encyclopaedia of =20
Islamic Economics,The Islamic Foundation,
Markfield, U.K.=20
=20
16.00 - 16.30 Break
=20
16.30 - 18.00 16th Session: Islamic Banking (IV)
Emerging Opportunities for Islamic Banking in
Project =20
Finance in IDB Member Countries
Iqbal Khan, Managing Director, Global Islamic
Finance,=20
HSBC Investment Bank, London
=20
=20
18.00 - 19.00 17th Session: Panel Discussion, Chair: Dr.
Homayoun Dar
Dr. M. Iqbal, Dr. M. Al-Gari, Dr. S. Tag
el-Din, Mr. Iqbal=20
Khan
=20
19.00 - 20.00 Dinner=20
=20
=20
=20
MONDAY 27th SEPTEMBER
=20
09.00 - 10.00 18th Session: Islamic Finance (VI)
Principles of Islamic management
Dr. Humayon Dar, Department of Economics,
Loughborough=20
University, UK
=20
10.00 - 11.00 19th Session: Islamic Finance (VII) =20
=20
Muslim Attitudes to Islamic Finance=20
Prof. John Presley, Department of Economics,
Loughborough=20
University, UK
=20
11.00 - 12.00 20th Session: Final Panel Discussion, Chair:
Dr. Munawar=20
Iqbal=20
Final General Panel Discussion=20
Dr. M. Iqbal, Dr. M. Al-Gari, Dr. S. Tag
el-Din, Mr. Iqbal=20
Khan, Dr. H. Dar
=20
12.00 - 13.00 Concluding Session=20
=20
13.00 - 15.00 Lunch, Prayer & Departure
=20
=20
Dr. Abdelkader Chachi,
Co-ordinator, Islamic Economics Unit
The Islamic Foundation,
Markfield Conference Centre,
Ratby Lane, Markfield,
Leicestershire, LE67 9SY, U.K.
Tel. 00-44-(0)1530-244 944 / 5
Fax: 00-44-(0)1530-244 946
=20
----- End forwarded message -----
=20
=20
=20
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=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 28 Jul 1999 01:34:41 -0700
Reply-To: [log in to unmask]
Sender: The Gambia and related-issues mailing list
<[log in to unmask]>
From: ceesay <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Join us at Ndey Jobarteh's Flat for a night get together
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Hi Ebrima (Coach) Ceesay
I haven't heard from you in quite some time. I've been reading about
your get togethers at Ndey Jobarteh's Flat. Wish I were there!
I would like to write to you at your e-mail address, or do you receive
all you e-mails at this address?
How is your wife Sandra? I read that you hit her car. I hope
everything is fine now. My wife, Irie, extends her greetings to you and
Sandra.
Let's stay in touch. You have my e-mail address, it the same. Please
drop me a line very soon.
Lamin Ceesay
Ndey Jobarteh wrote:
>
> Sister Jabou ,
>
> This is brother Ebrima and, of course, thanks million times for your swift
> reply. Actually we tried to get you on the chat line last night/early this
> morning, but to no avail. You are right, Jabou, I was looking at Sandra's
> face when I accidently hit the wall.
>
> Anyway, it was really great to hear from you and, for your information, we
> are still keeping your share of the food for you.
>
> Or shall we post it to you, as suggested by sister Ndey Jobarteh? Guess
> what!! Dr Saine has kindly agreed to bring you a glass of my "lewal"
> ("attaya"), so that you can have a taste of it.
>
> Truely, we had a good night at Ndey's flat yesterday, and it would have been
> nice if such a wonderful sister like you was with us.
>
> By the way, Dr Saine has spoken very highly of you, Soffie Ceesay and one
> Kura Njie in Atlanta. Anyway, as Basirou Dodou Drammeh would often say:
> sisters, keep up the good work down there !!
>
> Karamba Touray and Ousman Bojang, Ndey has ordered me to invite you to come
> and join us for tonight's get together. We gonna continue the get together
> tonight. And believe me, it is going to be good tonight!!! Already, we have
> a full house. The only invitee in Europe we are waiting for is Amadou
> Kabirr Njie in Norway.
>
> Brother Kabirr, I am instructed to tell you that we have reserved a V.I.P
> seat for you with Concord for tonight's session. Just go to the Oslo airport
> and ask for flight 730. They should give you your ticket, numbered 9000.
>
> By the way, Kabirr, Saiks is kind enough to bring you some "Chakri" to Oslo,
> Norway, if you miss the flight.
>
> And guess what!! Dr Saine is going to cook the "palasas" for us, while
> Saiks is cooking the "fufu". Wassa Fatty, a well known Pan Africanist and
> Dr Adama Mboge have offered to make the "wonjo" (Sorrel). Zaya Yeebo, the
> Ghanaian who wrote the book on the Jammeh Coup, titled "A State of Fear In
> Paradise" is cooking the "Kenkeh" food for us.
>
> And as usual, I'll be preparing/making the "Attaya", and needless to say
> that I have also been ordered to do the cleaning afterwards.
>
> Ebrima ceesay,
> North London, UK.
>
> PS: Jocelyn Touray, we are looking after Dr Saine and the rest of the crew
> very, very, very well.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [log in to unmask] <[log in to unmask]>
> To: [log in to unmask] <[log in to unmask]>
> Date: 25 July 1999 03:25
> Subject: Re: Join us at Ndey Jobarteh's Flat for a night get together
>
> >Hi guys,
> >
> >l am having a good laugh here reading this. Wish l could join you over
> >there. Please don't be too hard on my sister Ndey for her cooking. Not
> >important, as my daughter Amie would say, when her brothers label her meals
> >"deadly". Could use some "attaya" at about now. My regards to all, and
> >have fun.
> >
> >PS: Ebrima, take it easy driving next time. You must have been happy to
> see
> >Sandra and was therefore not paying attention to that fence.
> >
> >Cheers.
> >Jabou Joh
> >
> >Gambia L,
> >
> > Would you believe this? It is 2.30 am (Sunday morning) and myself (Ebrima
> > Ceesay), Dr Abdoulaye Saine, Saiks Samateh and Ndey Jobarteh are having a
> > nice get together at Ndey Jobarteh's imposing flat/apartment in North
> > London.
> >
> > Unfortunately, Sandra could not attend it because I hit her car at our
> fence
> > and badly damaged the two doors on the driver's side. She said she was
> > "lazy" to take the train to London, but hoped Dr Saine would visit
> > Birmingham before he returns to the USA.
> >
> > By the way, Dr Saine is presently staying at Ndey Jobarteh's flat having a
> > quality holiday. Right now, I am making/ cooking the Chinese tea (Attaya)
> > while Ndey is serving the "chakri".
> >
> > All the members of the List are invited to come and join us right now
> before
> > the food is finished because there is a Camara Kunda here (in the Flat). I
> > have been given 10 out of 10 for preparing a nice tea (Attaya), while Ndey
> > has been given 2 out of 10 for the "chakri" she prepared (laugh!).
> >
> > Anyway, Ndey, Saiks and I are so glad to see Dr Saine in person after
> having
> > enjoyed reading his useful postings to the L . We've found him to be
> > humble, knowledgeable and sober.
> >
> > But he was surprised when he saw me. Why? Because he thought I looked 25
> > years old!! In reply, I told him that I was born in 1966. "You must be
> > looking after yourself very well", Dr Saine added.
> >
> > However, before Dr Saine finished talking Ndey Jobarteh went to the
> kitchen
> > to take a knife in order to cut, as she put it, "some of your long ears."
> >
> > She also told Dr Saine I had to cut my hair low so as to hide my bald
> head.
> > Anyway, guess what happened? Ndey Jobarteh's food has got burnt in the
> fire
> > and we are all laughing. Good for her.
> >
> > Finally, I have been ordered, not told, but ordered by the crew here, to
> > invite sisters Soffie Ceesay, Jabou Joh and brother Amadou Kabirr Njie to
> > come and attend the get together before the food is finished!!
> >
> > Ebrima Ceesay,
> > North London.
> > >>
> >
> >---------------------------------------------------------------------------
> -
> >
> >To unsubscribe/subscribe or view archives of postings, go to the Gambia-L
> >Web interface at: http://maelstrom.stjohns.edu/archives/gambia-l.html
> >
> >---------------------------------------------------------------------------
> -
> >
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> To unsubscribe/subscribe or view archives of postings, go to the Gambia-L
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>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
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Date: Wed, 28 Jul 1999 06:52:06 -0400
Reply-To: The Gambia and related-issues mailing list
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: The Gambia and related-issues mailing list
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From: Ceesay Soffie <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Join us at Ndey Jobarteh's Flat for a night get together
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
I am delighted at receiving this email after putting out some fires for most
of the weekend. Ndey and the gang, wish I were there, sounds like you are
all having a blast and for the record, I am really glad that the 'you know
whos' (Tourays, Camaras, Drammehs, just to name a few of those who always
tend to run away with the pot of mbahal)are not there for there will not be
a morsel of food left had they been invited.
Soffie
Greetings Ndey, Saiks and Dr. Saine,
I hope this Ceesay kunda guy didn't eat all your food before you had a
chance to during the weekend? He even decided to leave the wife behind
inorder to eat her share.
These Ceesays, Jawos, Bojangs and Tourays eat so much that Gambia still
can't be self sufficient in food production:-)
Have a great week,
Momodou Camara
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Date: Wed, 28 Jul 1999 06:56:09 -0400
Reply-To: The Gambia and related-issues mailing list
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: The Gambia and related-issues mailing list
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From: Ceesay Soffie <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: FW: Interview with God
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Could not resist forwarding this one -
Soffie
Subject: Interview with God . . .
With my newly acquired title as a journalist,
I decided to strike a high note.
"Come in," God said to me, "so, you would like
to interview Me?"
"If you have the time," I said, "Can we talk while we walk?"
He smiled through His beard and said: "Certainly. My time is
called eternity and is enough to do everything; what would you like to
know?"
"What's the one thing that surprises you most about mankind?"
He answered: "That they get bored with being children,
are in a rush to grow up, and then long to be children
again. That they lose their health to make money and
then lose their money to restore their health.
That by thinking anxiously about the future, they forget
the present, such that they live neither for the present
nor the future. That they live as if they will never die,
and they die as if they had never lived..."
His hands took mine and we were silent. After a long
period I said, "May I ask you another question?"
He replied with a smile.
"As a Father, what would you ask your children to do for
the coming years?"
"To learn that they cannot make anyone love them.
What they can do is to let themselves be loved. To
learn that it takes years to build trust, and a few
seconds to destroy it.
To learn that what is most valuable is not what they have
in their lives, but who they have in their lives.
To learn that it is not good to compare themselves to
others. There will be others better or worse than they are.
To learn that a rich person is not one who has the most,
but is one who needs the least.
To learn that they should control their attitudes,
otherwise their attitudes will control them.
To learn that it only takes a few seconds to open profound
wounds in persons we love, and that it takes many years
to heal them.
To learn to forgive by practicing forgiveness.
To learn that there are persons that love them dearly, but
simply do not know how to show their feelings.
To learn that money can buy everything but happiness.
To learn that while at times they may be entitled to be
upset, that does not give them the right to upset those around them.
To learn that great dreams do not require great wings, but
a landing gear to achieve.
To learn that true friends are scarce, he/she who has
found one has found a true treasure.
To learn that it is not always enough that they be forgiven
by others, but that they forgive themselves.
To learn that they are masters of what they keep to
themselves and slaves of what they say.
To learn that they shall reap what they plant; if they
plant gossip they will harvest intrigues, if they plant
love they will harvest happiness.
To learn that true happiness is not to achieve their goals
but to learn to be satisfied with what they already achieved.
To learn that happiness is a decision. They decide to be
happy with what they are and have, or die from envy and
jealousy of what they lack.
To learn that two people can look at the same thing and
see something totally different.
To learn that those who are honest with themselves
without considering the consequences go far in life.
To learn that even though they may think they have
nothing to give, when a friend cries with them, they find
the strength to ease the pain.
To learn that by trying to hold on to loved ones, they very
quickly push them away; and by letting go of those whom
they love, they will be side by side forever.
To learn that even though the word "love" has many
different meanings, it loses value when it is overstated.
To learn that they can never do something extraordinary
for Me to love them; I simply do.
To learn that the shortest distance they could be from Me
is the distance of a prayer..."
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Date: Wed, 28 Jul 1999 07:15:00 -0400
Reply-To: The Gambia and related-issues mailing list
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: The Gambia and related-issues mailing list
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From: Ceesay Soffie <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Marrying your dead brothers wife/ incest or social/religiousc
onformity?
MIME-Version: 1.0
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What would have happened had the deceased brother's brother and the widow
could only produce girl babies or was this not part of the social continuity
equation? Just wondering loudly -
Soffie
Mr. Sanyang,
Both the Levirate and the Sororate are ancient forms of marriage which were,
presumably, established to preserve social relationships between families as
corporate entities, as well as other things. The Levirate has both social
as
well as religious mandates. The Sororate is a practice which has social
mandates, but I am not aware of any mandates which derive from the Talmud,
Bible
or the Qur'an.
In Sororate marriage, upon the death of a wife, the deceased's sister and
the
widower are obliged to marry, in order to preserve the family relationship
established by the marriage. Clearly in the past (and the not-too-distant
past,
at that), marriages were seen more in terms of their political and social
utility
than they are commonly seen today. Thus alliances, and common social bonds
could
be acquired and maintained through marriages. In such a way, arranged
marriages
were very normal, as were sororate marriages
Similarly in Levirate marriage, upon the death of a husband, the man's
brother is
obliged to marry the widow in order to preserve the family relationship
established by marriage, to provide economic support for the widow and
children,
which issued from the marriage, and to provide the deceased with an heir.
Unfortunately, neither inter familial relationships, economic support are
currently seen as being of much importance as they once were in the past, as
relationships between families (in a number of cases) has been minimized
(while
the ideal of "rugged individualism" has been lionized); arguably women are
much
more economically independent than they were in the past (although far from
being
on an equal economic footing with men), and heirs are considered to be of
limited
importance, although the consideration is usually reserved for a direct
biological descendant of an individual.
Among Christians and Jews the Levirate was a practice which was well
recognized,
as being an aspect of Mosaic Law. One of the purposes of the Levirate was
to
provide an heir for the deceased individual, if no MALE child had issued
from the
union. The first instance of this is seen in the Bible as early as the
first
book of the Bible called Genesis. In Genesis 38, there is discussion of the
practice, which apparently, was already part of custom at that point. The
discussion revolves around the sons of Judah and Shua, named Er, Onan, and
Shelah. Er was married, in an apparently arranged marriage, to a woman
named
Tamar. However, because of his wickedness, God slew Er. Judah then
commanded
the second son to "Go in t your brother's wife, and perform the duty of a
brother-in-law to her, and raise up offspring for your brother."
Onan, however, had other ideas. Knowing that the offspring from his union
with
Er's wife would not be considered his own, but rather the child of Er, Onan
during his period of intimacy with Tamar "spilled his semen on the ground"
so
that the wife would not become pregnant. Of course, God having seen Onan
shamelessly break the Law of Moses, slew Onan as well. This passage
illustrates
the idea of its currency during this distant time period, as well as the
idea
that people did not monolithically accept the practice. Certainly, Onan did
not. However, he paid the price for such wanton disregard for the Law as
received by Moses.
Sanction for the Levirate can be found in the Bible's book of Deuteronomy
25:5-10, which follows below. Note that within the passage from
Deuteronomy,
there was an option for the man to refuse to marry his deceased brother's
widow. This refusal however, entailed a ritual which would sever
relationships
between the two families, disgrace the reluctant brother, and allow the
woman to
remarry outside of her deceased husband's family.
5 "If brothers dwell together, and one of them dies and has no son, the
widow of the dead man shall not be married to a stranger outside the family;
her
husband's brother shall go in to her, take her as his wife, and perform the
duty
of a husband's brother to her.
6 "And it shall be that the firstborn son which she bears will succeed
to
the name of his dead brother, that his name may not be blotted out of
Israel.
7 "But if the man does not want to take his brother's wife, then let
his
brother's wife go up to the gate to the elders, and say, 'My husband's
brother
refuses to raise up a name to his brother in Israel; he will not perform the
duty
of my husband's brother.'
8 "Then the elders of his city shall call him and speak to him; and if
he
stands firm and says, 'I do not want to take her,'
9 "then his brother's wife shall come to him in the presence of the
elders,
remove his sandal from his foot, spit in his face, and answer and say, 'So
shall
it be done to the man who will not build up his brother's house.'
10 "And his name shall be called in Israel, 'The house of him who had
his
sandal removed.'
Thus, the same distaste which Mr. Sanyang expresses in his post against the
practice of the Levirate, was displayed against those who refused to uphold
it.
From the above, we are shown that even the Almighty, disapproved of Onan's
disapproval of the practice (or more pointedly, his refusal to uphold his
familial obligation as cited in Law. Admittedly, none of this could reveal
the
entire social and historical context of the Levirate, but it affords us an
window
into the practice, as revealed in the Bible.
It should be noted that contemporary forms of Judaism have invalidated
Levirate
marriage, although I have not been able to find anyone who could give me a
Talmudic reference for the cessation of this practice. I shall continue to
inquire into this, as this is a concern, which briefly summed up can be
looked at
in this way "Can we ethically change that which we perceive to be the Law of
God,
if our present social conditions, and mores deem specific practices socially
obsolete?" This is asked, as we are all well aware that everything which
happens, does so in very specific historical and social contexts. When the
historical and social contexts change, is there another [divine] law in
operation? If the answer to the primary question above is "yes" then what
constitutes significant social change, to warrant a change in the divinely
received law?
I must confess, however, that my initial impression concerning the Levirate
with
regards to Islam was in error. I thought I had read in the Qur'an that the
Levirate was endorsed. However, if I did read it, I cannot find it now. The
closest I could get to this was the Sura Al Nisa (The Women), which mentions
the
restrictions on who one could marry. In this lengthy listing of
relationships
which were forbidden, the marriage between wife of one's deceased brother
was not
among those mentioned.
22. Do not marry the women who were previously married to your
fathers--existing
marriages are exempted and shall not be broken--for it is a gross offense,
and an
abominable act.
23. Prohibited for you (in marriage) are your mothers, your daughters, your
sisters, the sisters of your fathers, the sisters of your mothers, the
daughters
of your brother, the daughters of your sister, your nursing mothers, the
girls
who nursed from the same woman as you, the mothers of your wives, the
daughters
of your wives with whom you have consummated the marriage--if the marriage
has
not been consummated, you may marry the daughter. Also prohibited for you
are the
women who were married to your genetic sons. Also, you shall not be married
to
two sisters at the same time--but do not break up existing marriages.
24. Also prohibited are the women who are already married, unless they flee
their
disbelieving husbands who are at war with you. These are GOD's commandments
to
you. All other categories are permitted for you in marriage, so long as you
pay
them their due dowries. You shall maintain your morality, by not committing
adultery. Thus, whoever you like among them, you shall pay them the dowry
decreed for them. You commit no error by mutually agreeing to any
adjustments to the dowry.
Could one infer that the Levirate is sanctioned, as I believe it would
certainly have been a well known practice in the region at the time of the
revelation of the Qur'an? From my reading of the above Sura, it appears so,
as
Al-Nisa notes that "All other categories are permitted for you in marriage,
so
long as you pay them their due dowries." However, I am not competent in
this
area, and would await the response of others, who are qualified. I am sure
that
the scholars on the list will fill the void here.
M W P
peter sanyang wrote:
> Hi Lers
> Can somebody help me out with this strange realization about people
marrying
> their late brothers spouses in the event of their dead. I particularly
find
> this practice very distasteful and unwarranted. Is it that, this practice
is
> in conformity of Islam/christianity or is it a practice that some ethnic
> groups within the Senegambia found appropriate and conducive in keeping
the
> family together and pure?
>
> In keeping the family under one uniform umbrella, i don't particularly
think
> that warrants the acquisition of ur brother's wife and nor does it
guarantee
> the stability of the family. Well, these are just my thoughts and i will
> welcome any learned response to these disturbing practice in my view.
>
> Kittos
> Peter
>
--
Your life is God's gift to you; what you do with your life is your gift to
God.
............
You teach a little bit by what you say, and a lot by what you do, when you
think
others are not watching you.
----------------------------------------------------
If you have ICQ my ICQ# is 561816
You can download ICQ at http://www.icq.com/
----------------------------------------------------
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Date: Wed, 28 Jul 1999 08:51:18 -0400
Reply-To: The Gambia and related-issues mailing list
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: The Gambia and related-issues mailing list
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From: Ebrima Jobe <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: FW: Who will take the son? -Reply
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Melvin Veney
> Sent: Tuesday, July 27, 1999 4:55 PM
> To: [log in to unmask]; [log in to unmask]; [log in to unmask]; Barbara
> Yang; Dorothy Harris; Ebrima Jobe; Kacie McCollum; Kim Amos; Maggie
> Jim; Ranying Liu
> Subject: FW: Who will take the son? -Reply
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Kim Amos
> Sent: Tuesday, July 27, 1999 4:06 PM
> To: Artis DuBose; Barbara Mumford; Karma Dixon; Kim McCollum;
> Kristen Hagy; Kristin McCollum; Marie Kehoe; Melvin Veney; Paule Elie;
> Rena McCutchen; Shirley Stocks
> Subject: FW: Who will take the son? -Reply
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Jones, Catherine (Crystal City) [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
> <mailto:[mailto:[log in to unmask]]>
> Sent: Tuesday, July 27, 1999 3:28 PM
> To: Andre Gooden; Annette Kirkland; Betty Washington; Beverly
> DeWalt; Cynthia Barnett; Fahn Harris; kim amos; Sandra Keeling; Sherry
> Hilton; Tammy Samuels
> Subject: FW: Who will take the son? -Reply
>
>
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Claytor, Yvonne [SMTP:[log in to unmask]]
> <mailto:[SMTP:[log in to unmask]]>
> > Sent: Tuesday, July 27, 1999 1:47 PM
> > To: 'Edward Mitchell'; 'Gail Simmons'; 'Lauren Ford'; 'maria
> > villamayor'; 'Mary Collins-Gilbert'; 'Robert Scott'; 'Stephanie
> Steptoe';
> > 'Steven Lewis'; 'Teresa Roberts'; 'Cathy Jones'
> > Subject: FW: Who will take the son? -Reply
> >
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Powell, Wendie M.,,DMDCEAST
> [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
> <mailto:[mailto:[log in to unmask]]>
> > Sent: Tuesday, July 27, 1999 1:17 PM
> > To: 'Angela Sewell'; 'Denise Polk2'; 'Erica Davis'; 'FELISHIA
> bERRY';
> > 'Nicole Mangum'; 'stephanie Covington'; 'Tracy Bagley'; 'White
> Carolyn';
> > 'young lee'; 'Yvonne Claytor'
> > Subject: FW: Who will take the son? -Reply
> >
> >
> >
> > I know that I said the other one was good but this one is also.
> Read,
> > understand and enjoy!!!!!!!
> > > ----------
> > > From: Karen Johnson[SMTP:[log in to unmask]]
> <mailto:[SMTP:[log in to unmask]]>
> > > Sent: Monday, July 26, 1999 5:37 PM
> > > To: [log in to unmask]; [log in to unmask];
> > [log in to unmask];
> > > [log in to unmask]; [log in to unmask]; [log in to unmask];
> > > [log in to unmask]; [log in to unmask]; [log in to unmask];
> > > [log in to unmask]; [log in to unmask]
> > > Subject: Who will take the son? -Reply
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > >>> "Welchez." <[log in to unmask]
> <mailto:[log in to unmask]>> 07/23/99 10:21am >>>
> > > A wealthy man and his son loved to collect rare works
> > > of art. They had everything in their collection, from
> > > Picasso to Raphael. They would often sit together and
> > > admire the great works of art.
> > >
> > > When the Viet Nam conflict broke out, the son went to
> > > war. He was very courageous and died in battle while
> > > rescuing another soldier. The father was notified and
> > > grieved deeply for his only son.
> > >
> > > About a month later, just before Christmas, there was
> > > a knock at the door. A young man stood at the door
> > > with a large package in his hands. He said, "Sir, you
> > > don't know me, but I am the soldier for whom your son
> > > gave his life. He saved many lives that day, and he
> > > was carrying me to safety when a bullet struck him in
> > > the heart and he died instantly. He often talked
> > > about you, and your love for art.
> > >
> > > The young man held out his package. "I know this isn't
> > > much. I'm not really great artist, but I think your
> > > son would have wanted you to have this."
> > >
> > > The father opened the package. It was a portrait of
> > > his son, painted by the young man. He stared in awe at
> > > the way the soldier had captured the personality of
> > > his son in the painting. The father was so drawn to
> > > the eyes that his own eyes welled up with tears. He
> > > thanked the young man and offered to pay him for the
> > > picture.
> > >
> > > "Oh, no sir, I could never repay what your son did for
> > > me. It's a gift."
> > >
> > > The father hung the portrait over his mantle. Every
> > > time visitors came to his home he took them to see the
> > > portrait of his son before he showed them any of the
> > > other great works he had collected.
> > >
> > > The man died a few months later. There was to be a
> > > great auction of his paintings. Many influential
> > > people gathered, excited over seeing the great
> > > paintings and having an opportunity to purchase one
> > > for their collection. On the platform sat the
> > > painting of the son. The auctioneer pounded his gavel.
> > >
> > > "We will start the bidding with this picture of the
> > > son. Who will bid for this picture?" There was
> > > silence. Then a voice in the back of the room shouted.
> > > "We want to see the famous paintings. Skip this one."
> > > But the auctioneer persisted. "Will Someone bid for
> > > this painting?
> > >
> > > Who will start the bidding? $100, $200?"
> > >
> > > Another voice shouted angrily. "We didn't come to see
> > > this painting.. We came to see the Van Goghs, the
> > > Rembrandts.
> > >
> > > Get on with the real bids!" But still the auctioneer
> > > continued. "The son! The son! Who'll take the son?"
> > >
> > > Finally, a voice came from the very back of the room.
> > > It was the longtime gardener of the man and his son.
> > > "I'll give $10 for the painting."
> > >
> > > Being a poor man, it was all he could afford. "We have
> > > $10, who will bid $20?" "Give it to him for $10. Let's
> > > see the masters." "$10 is the bid, won't someone bid
> > > $20?" The crowd was becoming angry. They didn't
> > > want the picture of the son. They wanted the more
> > > worthy investments for their collections.
> > >
> > > The auctioneer pounded the gavel. "Going once, twice,
> > > SOLD for $10!"
> > >
> > > A man sitting on the second row shouted. "Now let's
> > > get on with the collection!"
> > >
> > > The auctioneer laid down his gavel. "I'm sorry, the
> > > auction is over."
> > >
> > > "What about the paintings?"
> > >
> > > "I am sorry. When I was called to conduct this
> > > auction, I was told of a secret stipulation in the
> > > will. I was not allowed to reveal that stipulation
> > > until this time.
> > >
> > > Only the painting of the son would be auctioned.
> > > Whoever bought that painting would inherit the entire
> > > estate, including the paintings. The man who took the
> > > son gets every thing!"
> > >
> > > God gave His son 2,000 years ago to die on a cruel
> > > cross. Much like the auctioneer, His message today
> > > is, "The son, the son, who'll take the son?"
> > >
> > > Because, you see, whoever takes the Son gets
> > > everything.
> > >
> > > --Author Unknown
> > >
> > > Please send this to ten people and back to the one who
> > > sent it to you.
> > >
> > > _________________________________________________________
> > > Do You Yahoo!?
> > > Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com
> > >
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Date: Wed, 28 Jul 1999 06:19:18 PDT
Reply-To: The Gambia and related-issues mailing list
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: The Gambia and related-issues mailing list
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From: momodou conteh <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: The Interview Of Ex-President Jammeh
Mime-Version: 1.0
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Thank you for your mail. I surpose you have a point to argue, I wanted to
write more but present I am on a vocatio
>From: Lamin Jaiteh <[log in to unmask]>
>Reply-To: The Gambia and related-issues mailing list
><[log in to unmask]>
>To: [log in to unmask]
>Subject: Re: The Interview Of Ex-President Jammeh
>Date: Tue, 20 Jul 1999 20:50:45 -0700
>
>Hey pah mambuna ,
>I suppose you have already packed your bags and ready to fly back within
>the week or so to contribute to the nation as Makdela did for his. IF not i
>suggest your stay in Kentucky
>and stop babbling.
>What ar u still doing here since you graduated from Berea. What do we call
>your kind.
>TENN.
>
>
>
>
>At 02:08 PM 7/20/99 -0400, you wrote:
> >Saul,
> >
> >You do not need to reiterate yourself. We heard you loud and clear from
>your very
> >first posting. At times we can all choose to have "Selective
> >hearing/understanding". Its an easy to do thing. You deserve my pat on
>your back
> >for telling us what we may not want to hear.
> >
> >Indeed, Africa can only be developed by Africans and hence Gambia by
>Gambians. It
> >is going to take educated Africans (or should I say intellectuals?) to
>rescue
> >Africa from the poor state Africa is in today. You will agree with me
>that
>there
> >are no shortage of educated Africans in the world today, but where are
>the
>vast
> >majority of these elite Africans investing their "resources"? Certainly,
>the
> >Gambia is not enjoying those "resources" from her elite populace. Why? I
>guess
> >Mr. Bajo has concisely spelt out the reasons over and over. To go on
>bickering
> >about Pres. Jammeh and his cohorts OR Ex-Pres. Jawara and his people
>while we
> >choose to stay in the developed world to amass wealth or for what ever
>reasons,
> >will only lead us to what psychologists refer to as "diffusion of
> >responsibility/bystander effect" - somebody will one day remove him from
>power.
> >Who will that somebody be?
> >
> >Pres. Jammeh and his cohorts might be doing what you and I may disagree
>with, but
> >what good can you and I do if our only weapon is to haul at them from far
>away?
> >The likes of Ghandi, M.L. King Jr. N. Mandela, just as Mr. Bajo has
>mentioned,
> >have done it against their oppressors under very severe conditions that
>they
> >could choose to easily avoid just as most of us are doing right now.
>Mandela saw
> >the need to put an end to apartheid and he sacrificed 27 solid years of
>his life
> >behind bars for the world at large to see what he saw. All praise due to
>Allah,
> >the omnipotent, Mandela's dreams now become a reality. Ghandi saw the
>need
>to put
> >and end to British oppression, that also took countless lives, in India.
>He
> >sacrificed to spend time, over and over, behind bars while he continued
>to
>fight
>
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Date: Wed, 28 Jul 1999 06:19:29 PDT
Reply-To: The Gambia and related-issues mailing list
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: The Gambia and related-issues mailing list
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From: momodou conteh <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: The Interview Of Ex-President Jammeh
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed
Thank you for your mail. I surpose you have a point to argue, I wanted to
write more but present I am on a vocatio
>From: Lamin Jaiteh <[log in to unmask]>
>Reply-To: The Gambia and related-issues mailing list
><[log in to unmask]>
>To: [log in to unmask]
>Subject: Re: The Interview Of Ex-President Jammeh
>Date: Tue, 20 Jul 1999 20:50:45 -0700
>
>Hey pah mambuna ,
>I suppose you have already packed your bags and ready to fly back within
>the week or so to contribute to the nation as Makdela did for his. IF not i
>suggest your stay in Kentucky
>and stop babbling.
>What ar u still doing here since you graduated from Berea. What do we call
>your kind.
>TENN.
>
>
>
>
>At 02:08 PM 7/20/99 -0400, you wrote:
> >Saul,
> >
> >You do not need to reiterate yourself. We heard you loud and clear from
>your very
> >first posting. At times we can all choose to have "Selective
> >hearing/understanding". Its an easy to do thing. You deserve my pat on
>your back
> >for telling us what we may not want to hear.
> >
> >Indeed, Africa can only be developed by Africans and hence Gambia by
>Gambians. It
> >is going to take educated Africans (or should I say intellectuals?) to
>rescue
> >Africa from the poor state Africa is in today. You will agree with me
>that
>there
> >are no shortage of educated Africans in the world today, but where are
>the
>vast
> >majority of these elite Africans investing their "resources"? Certainly,
>the
> >Gambia is not enjoying those "resources" from her elite populace. Why? I
>guess
> >Mr. Bajo has concisely spelt out the reasons over and over. To go on
>bickering
> >about Pres. Jammeh and his cohorts OR Ex-Pres. Jawara and his people
>while we
> >choose to stay in the developed world to amass wealth or for what ever
>reasons,
> >will only lead us to what psychologists refer to as "diffusion of
> >responsibility/bystander effect" - somebody will one day remove him from
>power.
> >Who will that somebody be?
> >
> >Pres. Jammeh and his cohorts might be doing what you and I may disagree
>with, but
> >what good can you and I do if our only weapon is to haul at them from far
>away?
> >The likes of Ghandi, M.L. King Jr. N. Mandela, just as Mr. Bajo has
>mentioned,
> >have done it against their oppressors under very severe conditions that
>they
> >could choose to easily avoid just as most of us are doing right now.
>Mandela saw
> >the need to put an end to apartheid and he sacrificed 27 solid years of
>his life
> >behind bars for the world at large to see what he saw. All praise due to
>Allah,
> >the omnipotent, Mandela's dreams now become a reality. Ghandi saw the
>need
>to put
> >and end to British oppression, that also took countless lives, in India.
>He
> >sacrificed to spend time, over and over, behind bars while he continued
>to
>fight
> >the British with non-violent forces. Dr. King non-violently fought
>against
> >segregation in the United states and suffered numerous arrests even
>before
>he was
> >gunned down. Time after time we heard him say, "Like anyone else, I would
>like to
> >live a long life, longevity has its place .... but it does not matter
>with me
> >any more ..... I just want to do God's will..." What I am try to convey
>is
>that
> >Dr. King vividly knew that they were plotting to kill him, but that did
>not stop
> >him from doing what he was doing. He saw the injustice of segregation and
>was
> >persevered to fight against it at any cost, even at the cost of his own
>life.
> >Wow! these were some of the heroes whose education was used to amass
>wealth not
> >solely for themselves but for the world over. Each one of these people,
>Mandela,
> >King or Ghandi could have avoided the harsh and cruel suffering they had
>gone
> >through had they dropped their weapons (I guess those weapons would be
>words and
> >pen for all three but while at the very core of everything) and watched
>for what
> >will happen next. I wonder and wander if I would have been able to sit
>here at
> >Transylvania University in Lexington, KY today to freely compose this
>response
> >had it not been the struggle Dr. King and his people undertook. Someone
>in
>India
> >or South Africa may be wondering and wandering for a similar thing had it
>not
> >been for Ghandi or Mandela in addition to Allah's will.
> >
> >We heard enough of what needs to be done at home now. I for one agree
>that
>most
> >of the points raised by many on this very "Bantaba" are worth
>implementing. To
> >paraphrase Mr. Bajo, "actions do speak louder than words". We have these
>great
> >many ideas, but will we be willing to pay for anything that it will cost
>to
> >implement them? Certainly not if we only keep hauling from far away. I
>guess this
> >is the point Mr. Bajo clearly spelt out in both his postings and he
>surely
> >deserves my applause. I attended a meeting in Atlanta during the July 4
>reunion,
> >and to be honest it was awe inspiring to see all those Gambian intellects
>who are
> >rich in knowledge. I take my hat off for them to be able to dedicate
>themselves
> >to achieve what they have. I was really thrilled. The GAMBIA, our
>homeland,
> >surely needs their expertise if we want to prevent another exodus of the
> >generation that follows us. Our generation has immensely dispersed,
>thanks to
> >Ex-Pres Jawara, but we can make Gambia a conducive place for the next
> >generation to stay if we go home to implement what our intellectuals deem
> >necessary.
> >
> >We cannot stand aloof from our nation's affairs and only hope for the
>best. Pres.
> >Jammeh has always welcome the educated ones to go and work together for
>a
>better
> >Gambia. May Allah give us all the courage to do just that.
> >
> >God speed!
> >
> >Pa Mambuna
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >***************************************************************************
>*********
> >
> >I dread success. To have succeeded is to have finished one's business on
>earth,
> >like the male spider, who is killed by the female the moment he has
>succeeded in
> >his courtship. I like a state of continual becoming, with a goal in front
>and not
> >behind... George Bernard Shaw, Playwright, 1856-1950
> >
> >----------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >
> >To unsubscribe/subscribe or view archives of postings, go to the Gambia-L
> >Web interface at: http://maelstrom.stjohns.edu/archives/gambia-l.html
> >
> >----------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >
> >
>
>----------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>To unsubscribe/subscribe or view archives of postings, go to the Gambia-L
>Web interface at: http://maelstrom.stjohns.edu/archives/gambia-l.html
>
>----------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
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Date: Wed, 28 Jul 1999 07:09:27 PDT
Reply-To: The Gambia and related-issues mailing list
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From: ebrima ceesay <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Join us at Ndey's Flat for a get together
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Ndey & Saiks,
Thanks for hosting me at the weekend, and I hope I was not a pain in the
neck. Anyway, it was really great to spend the weekend with you people -
including Dr Saine - and I hope to repay your hospitality and kindness
whenever you find time to visit that capital of the world called Birmingham.
Needlessly to say that - being a Ceesay Kunda (laugh!) - I did enjoy the
food, the "attaya", the atmosphere and, of course, the interesting political
discussions I had had with Brother Wassa Fatty, especially in relation to
the writings/works of the late Pan Africanist and well-known writer,
Abdulrahman M. Babu, who died in london in early August 1996.
Interestingly, just before I came to write/send this e-mail to the L, I
passed at Sandra's bookshop, and she showed me a relatively new book titled
"Tomorrow's Africa conference" containing, among other things, a very
powerful keynote speech given by Babu at a conference on Africa, at the
London School of Economics, organised by OXFAM in 1994.
Ndey, tell Wassa that by the grace of God, I'll give him a complementary
copy of this book next time I am in London. Frankly, Babu's brain was
superb: a great thinker!! As we are about to commemorate the third
anniversary of his death towards the end of next week, it is our wish/hope
that Babu is lying very comfortably in God's heaven.
And before it escapes my mind, Momodou Camara, I was/am so glad that you did
not come to London to attend the get-together at Ndey Jobarteh's flat,
because you would have eaten all the food under five seconds (laugh!!). In
fact, some one told me the other day that each Camara Kunda eats a 100 kilos
bag of rice per day. No wonder rice is always scarce in the Gambia (laugh!)
Lamin Ceesay, what's up in Atlanta? How was your trip to the Gambia? Did you
enjoy it? Why not you give us - Gambia L - your "Top 10 list"?
By the way, how was/is Pap Saine? What about Deyda Hydara? I take it that
they are all fine and in good health. My regards to your wife, Irie.
Ebrima Ceesay,
Birmingham, UK.
>From: Momodou Camara <[log in to unmask]>
>Reply-To: The Gambia and related-issues mailing list
><[log in to unmask]>
>To: [log in to unmask]
>Subject: Re: Join us at Ndey Jobarteh's Flat for a night get together
>Date: Mon, 26 Jul 1999 12:21:35 +0200
>
>Greetings Ndey, Saiks and Dr. Saine,
>I hope this Ceesay kunda guy didn't eat all your food before you had a
>chance to during the weekend? He even decided to leave the wife behind
>inorder to eat her share.
>
>These Ceesays, Jawos, Bojangs and Tourays eat so much that Gambia still
>can't be self sufficient in food production:-)
>
>Have a great week,
>Momodou Camara
>
>----------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>To unsubscribe/subscribe or view archives of postings, go to the Gambia-L
>Web interface at: http://maelstrom.stjohns.edu/archives/gambia-l.html
>
>----------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
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Date: Wed, 28 Jul 1999 19:00:20 +0200
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From: jamanty barrow <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: SUBSCRIBE
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Dear List managers,
Could you please subscribe Ebrahima Sallah. His address is:
[log in to unmask]
Jamanty Barrow
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Date: Wed, 28 Jul 1999 19:04:59 +0100
Reply-To: The Gambia and related-issues mailing list
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From: Alan Mason <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: U.K. Telephone Numbers: Directory Enquiry Service
Comments: To: Geri Mitchell <[log in to unmask]>,
Joan Gotthard <[log in to unmask]>,
Mary Elphick <[log in to unmask]>,
Mike Herbert <[log in to unmask]>,
Norman Butler <[log in to unmask]>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Anyone in, or who has contact with anybody in Britain, will be interested to
know that all U.K. telephone numbers (excluding ex-directory [unlisted] and
mobile numbers), can be obtained by visiting:
http://www.phonenetuk.bt.com:8080/PhoneNetUK
The service is quick and easy to use, and apart from your normal Internet
service costs is COMPLETELY FREE!
Apparently the service became available in May 99, but as far as I know has
not been advertised by B.T.
British Telecom - don't we just love to hate you!
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Date: Thu, 29 Jul 1999 00:06:39 -0400
Reply-To: The Gambia and related-issues mailing list
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From: "Malanding S. Jaiteh" <[log in to unmask]>
Organization: Michigan Technological University
Subject: Makes one wonder....
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
boundary="----=_NextPart_000_006E_01BED956.3B614D80"
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
------=_NextPart_000_006E_01BED956.3B614D80
Content-Type: text/plain;
charset="Windows-1252"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
This from the POINT's Monday edition.=20
Makes one wonder whether this is in the interest of the Leader =
they claim to cherish so dearly! =20
Malanding Jaiteh
Manifesto Of The July 22 Movement
=20
=20
On the occasion of the anniversary of the July 22nd takeover, the =
July 22nd Movement has issued a statement cum manifesto outlining its =
beliefs, loyalty to President Jammeh, The Gambia and Africa..
=20
=20
The July 22nd Movement re-committed itself to the building of The =
Gambia, Africa based on true democratic principles, accountability, =
transparency, equity, good governance and self-reliance.=20
The document described the following as the activities of the =
movement:=20
General: anti-drug, intelligence, border security - smuggling and =
trafficking, self-help development projects, agriculture - farming, =
environmental protection against bush fires, illegal felling of trees, =
sanitation; participation in nation building.=20
After tracing the history of politics and its present features, =
the movement affirms: " In the African context therefore, political =
parties have quite often failed to address the issues of the masses. =
They become more concerned with securing power in order to project their =
common interest. The idea of consensus fails to emerge as is the =
cultural norm. The aftermath of party politics in African countries is =
to split individuals and families, communities and societies causing =
total havoc and disorder through vehicles of a) tribalism, b) =
regionalism c) ideological differences and confusion.=20
This has resulted to the backwardness of most nations in general =
and Africa in particular.=20
Being in such an entanglement for so long we should respect and =
uphold the sincerity and commitment of our leadership in moving this =
country progessively into the new millennium"=20
The July 22nd Movement further opined that in the current =
political development in The Gambia, what must be recognised is "the =
very good and invaluable qualities of our leadership in the very person =
of (RTD) Col. Dr. Yahya Abdul Aziz Jemus Junkung Jammeh. The leadership =
that so dearly cherished the power of the masses to have the concept =
entrenched in the Constitution; the leadership that has in the sgort =
span of the takeover put in place ideological concepts and development =
activities that progessively into the new millennium-educational =
infrastructure, health facilities, agricultural philisophy and practices =
for food security, telecommunications technology, road infrastructure."=20
Call On Political Parties:=20
"We therefore urge all our various political parties, PDOIS, NRP, =
UDP and APRC and any other party that is to emerge to try and look for a =
forum for progessive discussion to advance forward, than to embark on =
the politics of mere words of "KAJAFIROO", "DJATAGOL" or "SAGANTEH" and =
mere criticism for the want of a better offer of alternatives to satisfy =
the needs of the people other than rhetorics and the use of foreign =
concepts of governing only as a means to project an image or cause =
confusion with the sole aim of ruling. All these bring about confusion =
and conflict which always result in wars and destabilization of nations. =
Now this style of political agitation is old-fashioned and must cease to =
exist. In fact the party system is old and should be buried. It merely =
projects the fulfillment of the desire of a group of individuals who =
have come together to rule for themselves."=20
Part of the conclusions of the statement cum manifesto is as =
follows: " 1) The life of our beloved leader must be protected through =
the sacrifice of all Gambians especially the youths.=20
2) His ideas ad ideology should be inculcated into the youths of =
the nation through mass mobilization ad sensitization from village =
level, District, Division and expanding to the international level.=20
3) Peace and stability in the country must be sustained at all =
cost.=20
4) In our society, non productive and self interest bourgeoisie =
and petty bourgeoisie should not be allowed to find the necessary =
conditions of existence and growth.
=20
------=_NextPart_000_006E_01BED956.3B614D80
Content-Type: text/html;
charset="Windows-1252"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META content=3D"text/html; charset=3Dwindows-1252" =
http-equiv=3DContent-Type>
<META content=3D"MSHTML 5.00.2614.3401" name=3DGENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>
<TABLE border=3D0 cellPadding=3D0 cellSpacing=3D0 width=3D502 =
NOF=3D"LY">
<TBODY>
<TR align=3Dleft vAlign=3Dtop>
<TD colSpan=3D4 width=3D498>
<P align=3Dleft><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>This from the =
POINT's Monday=20
edition. </FONT></P>
<P align=3Dleft><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>Makes =
one wonder whether=20
this is in the interest of the Leader they claim to cherish so=20
dearly! </FONT></P>
<P align=3Dleft><FONT size=3D2>Malanding Jaiteh</FONT></P>
<P align=3Dcenter> </P>
<P align=3Dcenter><FONT color=3D#000000 =
size=3D+4></FONT> </P>
<P align=3Dcenter><B><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D+4>Manifesto Of =
</FONT><FONT=20
size=3D+4>The July 22 Movement</FONT></B></P></TD>
<TD colSpan=3D4></TD></TR>
<TR align=3Dleft vAlign=3Dtop>
<TD colSpan=3D8 height=3D8></TD></TR>
<TR align=3Dleft vAlign=3Dtop>
<TD colSpan=3D6 width=3D500>
<P><B><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D+1>On the occasion of the =
anniversary of=20
the July 22nd takeover, the July 22nd Movement has issued a =
statement cum=20
manifesto outlining its beliefs, loyalty to President Jammeh, The =
Gambia=20
and Africa.</FONT><FONT size=3D-1></FONT></B><FONT =
size=3D-1>.</FONT></P></TD>
<TD colSpan=3D2></TD></TR>
<TR align=3Dleft vAlign=3Dtop>
<TD colSpan=3D8 height=3D7></TD></TR>
<TR align=3Dleft vAlign=3Dtop>
<TD colSpan=3D6 width=3D500>
<P><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman,Times,Times NewRoman" =
size=3D-1>The July 22nd=20
Movement re-committed itself to the building of The Gambia, Africa =
based=20
on true democratic principles, accountability, transparency, =
equity, good=20
governance and self-reliance.=20
<P>The document described the following as the activities of the =
movement:=20
<P>General: anti-drug, intelligence, border security - smuggling =
and=20
trafficking, self-help development projects, agriculture - =
farming,=20
environmental protection against bush fires, illegal felling of =
trees,=20
sanitation; participation in nation building.=20
<P>After tracing the history of politics and its present features, =
the=20
movement affirms: " In the African context therefore, political =
parties=20
have quite often failed to address the issues of the masses. They =
become=20
more concerned with securing power in order to project their =
common=20
interest. The idea of consensus fails to emerge as is the cultural =
norm.=20
The aftermath of party politics in African countries is to split=20
individuals and families, communities and societies causing total =
havoc=20
and disorder through vehicles of a) tribalism, b) regionalism c)=20
ideological differences and confusion.=20
<P>This has resulted to the backwardness of most nations in =
general and=20
Africa in particular.=20
<P>Being in such an entanglement for so long we should respect and =
uphold=20
the sincerity and commitment of our leadership in moving this =
country=20
progessively into the new millennium"=20
<P>The July 22nd Movement further opined that in the current =
political=20
development in The Gambia, what must be recognised is "the very =
good and=20
invaluable qualities of our leadership in the very person of (RTD) =
Col.=20
Dr. Yahya Abdul Aziz Jemus Junkung Jammeh. The leadership that so =
dearly=20
cherished the power of the masses to have the concept entrenched =
in the=20
Constitution; the leadership that has in the sgort span of the =
takeover=20
put in place ideological concepts and development activities that=20
progessively into the new millennium-educational infrastructure, =
health=20
facilities, agricultural philisophy and practices for food =
security,=20
telecommunications technology, road infrastructure."=20
<P>Call On Political Parties:=20
<P>"We therefore urge all our various political parties, PDOIS, =
NRP, UDP=20
and APRC and any other party that is to emerge to try and look for =
a forum=20
for progessive discussion to advance forward, than to embark on =
the=20
politics of mere words of "KAJAFIROO", "DJATAGOL" or "SAGANTEH" =
and mere=20
criticism for the want of a better offer of alternatives to =
satisfy the=20
needs of the people other than rhetorics and the use of foreign =
concepts=20
of governing only as a means to project an image or cause =
confusion with=20
the sole aim of ruling. All these bring about confusion and =
conflict which=20
always result in wars and destabilization of nations. Now this =
style of=20
political agitation is old-fashioned and must cease to exist. In =
fact the=20
party system is old and should be buried. It merely projects the=20
fulfillment of the desire of a group of individuals who have come =
together=20
to rule for themselves."=20
<P>Part of the conclusions of the statement cum manifesto is as =
follows: "=20
1) The life of our beloved leader must be protected through the =
sacrifice=20
of all Gambians especially the youths.=20
<P>2) His ideas ad ideology should be inculcated into the youths =
of the=20
nation through mass mobilization ad sensitization from village =
level,=20
District, Division and expanding to the international level.=20
<P>3) Peace and stability in the country must be sustained at all =
cost.=20
<P>4) In our society, non productive and self interest =
bourgeoisie =20
and petty bourgeoisie should not be allowed to find the necessary=20
conditions of existence and growth.</FONT></P></TD>
<TD =
colSpan=3D2></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>
------=_NextPart_000_006E_01BED956.3B614D80--
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Date: Thu, 29 Jul 1999 02:15:09 EDT
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Subject: Re: Makes one wonder....
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Koto Malanding,
Thank you so much for that forwarding. I must admit that I am dismayed by
that piece. Whoever writes that piece showed a lot talent. As usual, we are
always better at making fine speeches, declarations and promises. It tells me
that the APRC is seeing its mistakes after five years in power and that is
very encouraging. I only hope that it may not become another mere fine art
and will be acted upon.
After years of restricting oppositional energies, it would be more than
welcoming by the opposition if acted upon. The trend of dictatorship as
called by them is declared unsystematically not accepted. What next? Or is it
just another July 22nd? I guess it is a wait and see.
Regards to Ya Anna and the whole family.
Ousman Bojang.
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Date: Thu, 29 Jul 1999 03:17:02 EDT
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From: [log in to unmask]
Subject: The African Intellectual
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I read the piece my brother Saul Bajo talked about the intellectuals with so
much interest. The getting on one "another's throat" as Uncle Jay might call
it was of interest. Bamba Lie, Tenn, Mambuna, Scattred and a lot more added
light to it which really made iteven more interesting. In fact it made me
agree with the gentleman who suggested to the L-managers to have a bank of
some pieces on the L- for future references.
Those of us who might not be intellectuals seems to blame them for not coming
to our rescue when we think we needed them the most. Yes, that might sound
selfish, but it is arguably human to be. It is always easier to blame someone
else for whatever. This is because we feel that we are in a situation(s)
where their services are needed. We agreed and kind of in denial that we need
them for we think that they could bring some new ideas and very valuable
skills towards development which we might not be able to get. The
construction of our envision Africa full of intellectuals with Africanise
ideas is just a fantasy.
When we talk of intellectuals, we measure them by not what they do or can do
for us, but by Western University standards using Western ideals. We tend to
forget that they are products of the Western curriculum and it does not
matter where they studied. They might have graduated from African
Universities, but their intelligence are typical foreign (Western) models.
Being an Intellectual in Africa and being an African Intellectual are two
different persons. An Intellectual who cannot relate him/herself to our
problems is a danger to the society and therefore those kinds are better off
staying outside. These are the ones whose background on African affairs are
rooted from what they are able to hear and read from books written by those
like them. And those books are also edited and published by the same Western
Institutions.
However, blaming these intellectuals for what they came into being
UN-intellectually unknowing, makes me feel guilty. Our societies have groomed
these people not to be accepted by us when they return. We view them as if
they are trying to impose their Western ideas on us and would not give them
the chance to give their opinions. Our governments are equally guilty of not
being able to create a flourishable atmosphere. They are seen as threats if
they disagree on principles and if they have different ideals, they are
viewed as reactionaries. Therefore, some of the good ones who feared not to
take a stand as true intellectuals end up imposing self exile.
Of course Africa needs all her people, but our leaders are not prepared to
accept that as a reality.
African intellectuals no doubt owes Africa a lot. Not only being side
commentators will suffice, but there has to be an audience receptive to new
ideas and not afraid of change. African governments has to improve their
relationship with her intellectuals on the bases of need and not wants. The
whole of Africa might have big lettered titles after our names, but until we
are ready to measure ourselves with the future and not the past, we are
doomed to fail. The past should just be a lesson for us to search for more
solutions to our problems.
All that we asks of our intellectuals is commitment. It is not going to be an
easy transition from a Western student to an African leader. they have to be
ready to experiment their ideals back home. Yes, it is true that a lot of
those who tried to experiment before never went okay, but I am sure they
would agree with me that there is no place like home. Yes, taking stands on
issues has always put a lot of us in trouble, but no intellectual should be
afraid of that. In fact that is what makes one an intellectual. I hope Ebrima
Ceesay puts that into consideration when he starts to work on his Directory.
If any one fails to take stand for whatever reasons, they are bound to be on
the wrong side of history.
I apologize if I bore anyone with my composition. I am trying to improve on
it.
Ousman Bojang.
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Date: Thu, 29 Jul 1999 04:29:11 PDT
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From: saiks samateh <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: [Re: Makes one wonder....]
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Dear Ous and Malanding,
I do agree with you people that there is something to sense here but my
conclusions are some how different from yours.Calling for national unity =
must
be a sincere call but by reading through the lines I found some hidden
agendas.Yes the party as a form of organization is out dated,it has prove=
d to
be a manipulating tool for the intellectual to have a control over the id=
eas
of the masses and subject to countless forms of humiliations.But the crit=
ic of
the party by the July 22nd movement seems to be aiming at something else =
and
this is one party system were the APRC will be the sole
representative.Secondly,the objectives of the July 22nd movement seems to=
indicate that we have a state within a state.We have seen that they are a=
iming
at taking over the assignment of law enforcing agents,thus they can arres=
t and
detain people based on their assumptions.This we have seen in the many
unlawful arrest and detention of opposition militants, members of July 2=
2 nd
movement have played active roles in many of these unlawful arrest and
detentions,this is fascism !!This press release have just documented the
unlimited powers of the July 22 nd movement.
By the way I did enjoy yours on the intellectual,keep on the good work.
For freedom
Saiks
Koto Malanding,
Thank you so much for that forwarding. I must admit that I am dismayed by=
that piece. Whoever writes that piece showed a lot talent. As usual, we a=
re
always better at making fine speeches, declarations and promises. It tell=
s me
that the APRC is seeing its mistakes after five years in power and that i=
s
very encouraging. I only hope that it may not become another mere fine ar=
t
and will be acted upon.
After years of restricting oppositional energies, it would be more than
welcoming by the opposition if acted upon. The trend of dictatorship as
called by them is declared unsystematically not accepted. What next? Or i=
s it
just another July 22nd? I guess it is a wait and see.
Regards to Ya Anna and the whole family.
Ousman Bojang.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------=
---
To unsubscribe/subscribe or view archives of postings, go to the Gambia-L=
Web interface at: http://maelstrom.stjohns.edu/archives/gambia-l.html
-------------------------------------------------------------------------=
---
____________________________________________________________________
Get your own FREE, personal Netscape WebMail account today at http://webm=
ail.netscape.com.
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Date: Thu, 29 Jul 1999 13:28:51 +0200
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From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Drammeh_Sahir_=28Bonnierf=F6rlagen_IT=29?=
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Subject: (OGIS) The Organisation Of Gambians in Sweden 1999 Cultural Week
in Stockholm
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The Organisations of Gambians in Sweden is hereby inviting all fellow
Gambians and friends to our yearly cultural week celebrations in =
Stockholm
from the 2nd to 7th August 1999.
The Gambian Organisations in Oslo and Copenhagen will be sending their
respective deligations to mark our cultural celebrations.Our fafous =
Gambian
drummer Alaghi Nying and company will be with us, and not forgeting the
Gambian Superstar MASS LOWE & THE SUPER GALAXY BAND, with whom you are
surely to have a wonderful evening. The Disco events will be provided =
by
"Humbal Disco".=20
PROGRAM OF EVENTS
DATE EVENT
PLACE TIME FEE
Monday, 2nd Aug. Childrens Program and Indoor Games
Rinkeby School 16:00 -
Volleyball, Basketball, Table tennis, Ludo
Chess, Scrabble, Draught, and other games.
Tuesday, 3rd Aug. Conference "Senegambian Music: Perspectives,
Challenges and ways
forward." Tendaba Rest. 17:00 -
(Speakers: Mass Lowe,
Paps Touray,
Demba Conta, Pa Bahoum,
Louie Faye and Dembo Ceesay)
Wednesday, 4th Aug. Football & Barbeque
Old Hands vs. Young Boys
Sp=E5nga IP 16:00 -
Thursday, 5th Aug. Conference
"Drugs: Legal, Medical & Social
Implications". Tendaba Rest. 17:00 -
Friday, & 6th Aug. Grand Hawareh: Tama Gambian Musician's day.
Hagalundsparken 16:00-19:00 -
Welcome Party
Tendaba Rest. 22:00 K40:-
Saturday, 7th Aug. Stockholm vs Copenhagen
????? 15:00 -
Stockholm vs Oslo
????? 17:00 -
Closing Party
Akalla Tr=E4ff 23:00 M/K100:-
=09
NM/120:-
WELCOME EVERYONE!!!!!
With Love
Treasurer/Spokesman (OGIS)
Sahir Drammeh
=09
=09
=09
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Date: Thu, 29 Jul 1999 09:35:57 EDT
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From: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [Re: Makes one wonder....]
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l agree with Saiks' assesment of this piece by the July 22nd movement. Their
criticism of the party as a divisive tool etc is a form of propanganda
message that is albeit very subtle, but it's aim coming from this group is
clear, "all we need is the APRC". l guess you have to live in another planet
to believe that they infact believe and abide by all the rhetoric they have
written into this press release.Yes, it is a police state in the making, and
they are getting their strategy more and more polished every day.
Jabou Joh
Dear Ous and Malanding,
I do agree with you people that there is something to sense here but my
conclusions are some how different from yours.Calling for national unity
must
be a sincere call but by reading through the lines I found some hidden
agendas.Yes the party as a form of organization is out dated,it has proved to
be a manipulating tool for the intellectual to have a control over the ideas
of the masses and subject to countless forms of humiliations.But the critic
of
the party by the July 22nd movement seems to be aiming at something else and
this is one party system were the APRC will be the sole
representative.Secondly,the objectives of the July 22nd movement seems to
indicate that we have a state within a state.We have seen that they are
aiming
at taking over the assignment of law enforcing agents,thus they can arrest
and
detain people based on their assumptions.This we have seen in the many
unlawful arrest and detention of opposition militants, members of July 22 nd
movement have played active roles in many of these unlawful arrest and
detentions,this is fascism !!This press release have just documented the
unlimited powers of the July 22 nd movement.
By the way I did enjoy yours on the intellectual,keep on the good work.
For freedom
Saiks
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Date: Thu, 29 Jul 1999 09:42:19 EDT
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From: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: FW: Virus Warnings
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<< Don't know if these are real or not but this came to me from credible
people...
Please Take Note!
WARNING No. 1
If you receive any CELCOM Screen Saver. Pls. do not install it!!!
This screensaver is very cool. It shows a NOKIA handphone, with time
messages. After it is activated, the PC cannot boot up at all. It goes
very slow. It destroys your hard disk. The filename is CELLSAVER.EXE
WARNING No. 2
Beware! if someone named <SandMan> asks you to check out his page. DO
NOT! It is at www.geocitiescom/vienna/6318
This page hacks into your C:\drive.DO NOT GO THERE...
WARNING NO.. 3
If you get an E-mail titled : "Win A Holiday" DO NOT open it.
Delete it immediately. Microsoft just announced yesterday. It is a
malicious virus that WILL ERASE YOUR HARD DRIVE . At this time there
is no remedy .
WARNING NO. 4
If you receive an e-mail titled JOIN THE CREW or PENPALS, DO NOT open
it!!!
It will erase EVERYTHING on your hard drive! PENPAL appears to be a
friendly
letter asking you if you are interested in a penpal.....but by the time
you
read this letter it is TOO late.
The Trojan horse virus will have already infected the boot sector of
your
hard drive, destroying all the data present. It is a self-replicating
virus, and once the message is read it will AUTOMATICALLY forward itself
to
anyone who's e-mail address is present in your box!!! This virus will
destroy your hard drive and holds the potential to DESTROY the hard
drive of anyone whose mail is in your box and whose mail is in their
box and so on and on!!!!!!MA So delete any message titled PENPAL or
JOIN
THE CREW. This virus can do major DAMAGE to worldwide networks!!!
PLEASE PASS THIS ALONG TO ALL YOUR FRIENDS AND PEOPLE IN
YOUR MAILBOXES. AOL HAS SAID THIS IS A VERY DANGEROUS VIRUS AND THERE
IS NO REMEDY FOR THIS YET.
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Date: Thu, 29 Jul 1999 13:54:28 GMT
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From: Momodou Jabang <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Beneficial Knowledge
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Asalaamu alaikum G-l,
Alhamdulillah and in the following months the intention is to go into
Tahaara (purification) and Salaah (prayer) according to the Prophet (SAW).
This has been necessitated by a request from an old acquaintance, who to my
surprise does not know how to properly perform Ghusl (major purification
after Janaba, menses or when entering Islaam). May Allah make it easy. In
the mean time we drink from the ocean of knowledge left behind by our great
Imaam. Courtesy www.islaam.com.
Imam Ibn Taymiyyah
The Concise Legacy, pp. 23-25
© JIMAS
Abul `Aasim al-Qaasim bin Yoosuf bin Muhammad at-Tajeebee as-Sabtee
al-Maghribee says: I requested our leader, the shaykh, faqeeh, imaam,
respected scholar, vanguard of the predecessors, leader of the later
generations, reviver of the Deen, expresser of rare and wonderful
ideas with great eloquence and literacy, the most knowledgeable
person I have met in the lands of the East and West, Taqi ud-Deen
Abul-`Abbaas Ahmad bin Taymiyyah (may Allaah enable us to continue
benefiting from him):
[some questions deleted...]
- To point me towards those books which I may rely upon regarding knowledge
of hadeeth, and other sciences of the sharee`ah.
Ibn Taymiyyah answered:
All praise be to Allaah, Lord of the Worlds.
As for which books one may depend on for the different branches
of knowledge, then this is a vast topic, and again, the answer to this
varies according to people's backgrounds in different lands. This is
because in each land, one field of learning or way or mode of
thinking may be easier than another, but the source of all good and
blessings is that one seeks help from Allaah in acquiring knowledge
inherited from the Prophet, sallallaahu `alayhi wa sallam, because
that is what is truly fit to be named knowledge. Anything else is
either not knowledge at all even though people call it so, or it is
knowledge which is not beneficial, or it is beneficial knowledge, in
which case it is necessarily true that there exists in the inheritance of
Muhammad, sallallaahu `alayhi wa sallam, that which replaces it,
being similar to it or better than it.
Thus the person's effort should be to understand the purposes of
the Messenger, sallallaahu `alayhi wa sallam, in his commands,
prohibitions and his various other sayings. When the heart is
contended that something is indeed as the Messenger, sallallaahu
`alayhi wa sallam, intended, then he should not waver from it as far
as possible, whether it is regarding his duties to Allaah or to the
people. In all branches of knowledge, he should strive to hold
firmly to principles narrated from the Prophet, sallallaahu `alayhi wa
sallam; if he is in doubt regarding any matter about which the
people of knowledge have differed, then he should supplicate to
Allaah with the du`aa which appears in Saheeh Muslim narrated by
`Aa'ishah, radiyallaahu `anhaa, that when the Messenger, sallallaahu
`alayhi wa sallam, stood for the night prayer, he would say,
'Allãhumma rabba jibreela, wa michã'eela, wa 'isrãfeela, fatiras-samãwãti
wal 'ardhi, `ãlimal ghaybi wash-shahadati, 'anta tahkumu bayna `ibãdika
feemã kãnoo feehi yakhtalifoona,
'ihdinee limãkhtulifa feehi minal-haqqi bi'ithnika, 'innaka tahdee man
tashã'u 'ilã sirãtin mustaqeem.
'O' my 'ilah Lord of Jibreel, hlichã'eel, and Isrãfeel, Creator of the
Heavens and the Earth, Knower of the hidden, and the visible, You decide
among your creation in justice in the matters in which they used to differ,
guide me rightly to that which has been differed upon of the Truth by your
leave, You guide whomever You will to a straight path.'
This is because Allaah the Exalted has said, as narrated by His
Messenger from Him, "O My slaves, all of you are astray except those that I
have guided, so seek guidance of Me and I shall guide you." [Muslim]
As for a description of good books and compilations: people will
have heard from me what Allaah has made easy on other
occasions. I will say this much now, that out of all the compiled
books which have been divided into chapters, there is none more
beneficial than the Saheeh of Muhammad bin Ismaa`eel
al-Bukhaaree. However, this alone is not enough to cover all the
major principles of knowledge, nor can it fulfill all the objectives of one
who seeks to dive deep into the various branches of
knowledge. It is imperative that other ahaadeeth, as well as the
words of the people of understanding and the people of knowledge
of different specialised fields be known, for the Ummah has progressed
tremendously in all fields of learning. He whose heart Allaah enlightens He
guides him through what reaches him; but he
whose heart Allaah blinds, many books only increase him in
confusion and misguidance, as the Prophet, sallallaahu `alayhi wa
sallam, said to Ibn Labeed al-Ansaari,
"Did the Jews and Christians not have the Tauraat and the Injeel?
So what benefit did these bring them?" [al-Bukhaaree in Khalq
Af`aal al-`Ibaad, an-Nasaa'ee, Ahmad, al-Haakim, ibn Hibbaan, Saheeh]
So we ask Allaah Almighty that He sustains us with guidance and
firmness, instills in our hearts our correct direction, protects us from the
mischief of our own selves, that He does not allow our hearts to deviate
after giving us guidance and that He bestows on us Mercy
from Him, for He is the Most Generous.
All Praise be to Allaah, Lord of the Worlds, and His Blessings be
on the most noble of the messengers.
Wasallalaahu wasallim ala Nabiyyina Muhammad. Wasalaam.
Modou Mbye
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Date: Thu, 29 Jul 1999 10:20:02 -0400
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From: Ebrima Jobe <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: REBELS IN CASAMANCE STRIKE AGAIN:
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GREETINGS,
According to the Washington Times,suspected rebels in Casamance,attacked
a public bus yesterday,killing two passengers and injuring nine other
people.This incident took place near SAMINE 44 miles of the capital
Ziguinchor.This is the first act of violence by rebel forces since
june,when they held peace talks in the GAMBIA with the Senegalese
Government.The army is conducting an investigation in this incident.I
hope these parties will get together to ion out their differences in
order to avoid more blood shed.
Weyeh.
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Date: Thu, 29 Jul 1999 07:22:05 PDT
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From: latjor ndow <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Is GUC dead for real?
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While Dr. Jeng has provided us with information on the current posture on
the NAWEC issue thus:
>The Friday 23rd July edition of the Daily Observer refuted the transfer
>of NAWEC to the Ivorian company. Instead Gov't wishes to invest on a 100
>megawatt power supply system to be in place within the next 2 - 3 years
>time.
It is not clear what part of the previous publication the Friday 23rd July
of the Daily Observer was refuting. Perhaps Dr. Jeng can clarify further.
Meanwhile, I will indulge in mere speculation for now.
There are issues that need to be addressed. The Bassam (Ivorien company)
deal seemed to be a leasing arrangement similar to the one we had with Sogea
the French company which was terminated in 1995(MSG - Munge Soga Garaw). If
this is the case, we seem to be taking one step forwards and ten backwards.
Bassam is involved in garbage collection in Abidjan and have no power or
water experience. Why consider them in the first place?
All the same, if I was the decision-maker of Bassam and have a 15-year
contract to supply electricity and water, I would probably go shopping for a
reputable multinational doing business in this sector with the expertise and
know-how at its disposal. Companies such as Hydro Quebec!
Latjor
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Date: Thu, 29 Jul 1999 18:35:20 +0000
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From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Asbj=F8rn?= Nordam <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Marrying your dead brothers wife/ incest or social/rel
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Personally I find this topic is very interesting.
What is marriage for ? What is a family ? And how do we practise this let
me call it "marriage-institution" in different cultures, under different
social conditions, in different centuries and under influent of f.i. our
religious upbringing. There must been written thousands of books on the
topic, I think.
As a roman catholic, brought up and grown up over the past 50 years seing
the "family-institution" with all it=B4s aspects in modern western society,I
have from time to time wondered. But also tried to understand/ accept.
In the late 60`ies I studied Habermass (Frankfurter-marxism) and also the
family-institution from that "angle", some sort of sociological. Among my
friends, inside my family I could as an adult see how "life" more or less
made you to live with the "family-institution". I met muslim gambians and
were introduced to another aspect of what a family is like and the
marriage- institution is for. Recently I come to study "family-law" at the
university and got that "legal" angle on the "institution", where it is
important to protect the social/legal rights of the wife, children inside
or outside the legal marriage, ensure the heritage etc..
On the recent comments to this Gambia-L we are again back to the Middle
East, where Jewry, Christianity and Islam takes it=B4s visions/ideal of the
family-institution based on the society those days.
We had earlier on the list debated polygamy- and androgyni, slavery and
violence/oppression against women inside a family-institution.
I=B4m also interested in how to approve "marriage" between people of the sam=
e
sex, or who is the father/mother of a child where the conception has been
made in a laboratory between cells from unknown persons (or even maybe one
or both biological parents) and the egg put up to the origine mother/ a
substitute mother etc. and the child raised by one/both biology parents, or
even in a biological "foreign" family.
Is it a persons right to "get a child", is it from a darwinistic theory, or
even under a religious angle right to create life/make a child
"technically", because we now master the technique, or do we have to accept
that some humans for some reasons can not make/get a child the "normal way"
so to say ?
Why is it important that the mans brother marry the widow, or opposite as
mentionned in the present comments to the list ?
And as you see from the comments of Payne and Cessey Soffie it=B4s been
"important" in the religions comming from Middle East, and in many
societies if a child is a son or a daughter, if it=B4s first born, if it=B4s
legal born=3Dcomming from a legitimate (in that society)
family-institutionalized marriage. This way of thinking is deep-rooted in
the society, in the laws, in the religion I=B4m raised into.
The marriage as a social institution, the marriage as a some sort of
"divine" or "sacred" institution and the combination of this has many
aspects.
How the christian marraige from accepting polygami (the first 100 years)
ended up monogame is interesting to understand.
So is how the ancient greek family tradition specially when it comes to the
mans sexual activities influented on the roman civic laws, from where we in
the west still have many of our principles. F.i. from a certain period it
become very important in ancient Rome if sex was with the married wife, the
slaves (males and females). And how the children born as a result were
recognized citizens in the roman empire with all rights, or were still
slaves but taken care of by the "master/father" are also very interesting
aspects trying to find out what is marriage made for in different
societies.
As allready pointed out in Paynes comment, how and where the man "spilled
his semen" has in those societies, as it still has in the civic laws of
todays society ,"importance".
In Denmark we f.i. debate if two married (or registered) women can
get/"buy" semen from an unknown father, get children and raise them inside
a family, even the women will never have anything to do with men. But what
about two married men, who want the same, should they be able to "rent" a
women to give life to the children they want to have inside their family,
which is without women. Is the marriage between people of the same sex a
human right that must be legalized as so ? Is it a womans right that the
society shall provide her the possibilities (comming to a clinic and let a
doctor do the clinical insemination) to get a child of her own without
seing a man ? If it=B4s a human right, how will the society offer the same t=
o
a man ?
As a follow up on the questions and comments on the list I can give an
example where it=B4s not the brother who steps in, but it=B4s the successor =
in
the job:
Untill some 70-80 years ago it was normal practise and expected, that a
priest in the danish church (christian-lutheran) when he got his post due
to the death of previous priest, he married the widow. There are many
examples of young priests, who were assistant-priests could not marry and
start a family, because he had to be free to marry the widow as soon as
another priest died, else his chances for getting the job was ruined. He
had to take over not only the church but also the responsibilites of the
dead priests family.
Young priests often married old women who were over the age of being
pregnant, so they didn=B4t get children. And when she died he could marry
again, now middle-aged he often married a young women, got children, and
when he passed away, the "story" repeated.
There was no social help from the state, or pension for an old priest as
today. So the marriage-institution was a form under which the social
security was provided the widow and her children.
The practise that a bachelor-brother steps in and marry/"take over" the
woman and the children was "norm" in parts of our society from ancient days
(described in the islandic sagas, the stories about how the vikings lived)
till modern time. Specielly when it comes to ensure property/land f.in. a
farm. But that was also in those days, when we had no social helping
systems, a women could not make a living of her own for the jobs provided
in society or other families.And land or property went in direct male-line
from father to the first born son, not to daughters. If a man left no sons,
his brother, if he had one, inherit.
So according to changes of the laws, the possibilities in the society, the
marriage as an legal institution to ensure a women, has changed rapidly.
And the religious connection to the marriage-institution has losts it=B4s
meaning for many many people. There are some people who think that the
service in church is a romantic service they have the right to buy/pay for
to make the wedding more interesting. But the ceremonies says/means nothing
to them, because they are not religious or even frequent participants in
the community around the church.
I could now give more comment from my experiences being a roman catholic
and trying to understand how the family-institution is like in our church,
modern society, and how I over years come to realize how other religions or
societies practise "marriage". I know we have both sociologists and
antropologists among us on the list, so it could be interesting getting
some points from some of them on the topic. As you understand I=B4m very
interested in all aspects of the "Marriage-institution", so all comments
are wellcome, specially when is comes to how it is like in societies in
Africa, The Gambia.
=46or my own you will have to wait for more comments, due to heavy work
moving from my small town Skive at the countryside of Denmark to a suburb
of Copenhagen. It=B4s not easy to say farewell to a small community, where
I=B4m wellknown citizen, farewell to friends, neighbours, most of the
furnitures, my very big house and nice garden, and move to a small
apartment in a big group of buildings.
Regards from Asbj=F8rn Nordam
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Date: Thu, 29 Jul 1999 10:15:19 PDT
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From: astrid christensen-tasong <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: HELP: Need assistance in locating some special friends
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Hi L'ers
I've been trying to get an email address for Kawsu or Almami Jawara. I
believe they are in London or Scotland. If anyone on the list has an email
address, mailing address or phone number for either or both,
please contact me privately at any of the email addresses below.
Many Thanks,
Astrid Christensen-Tasong
email address: work: [log in to unmask]
home: [log in to unmask]
_______________________________________________________________
Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com
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<td width="100%" valign="top"><font face="Verdana, sans serif" color="#000000"><div name='messagebody'>Hi L'ers
<br>
<br>I've been trying to get an email address for Kawsu or Almami Jawara. I believe they are in London or Scotland. If anyone on the list has an email address, mailing address or phone number for either or both,
<br>please contact me privately at any of the email addresses below.
<br>
<br>Many Thanks,
<br>
<br>Astrid Christensen-Tasong
<br>email address: work: [log in to unmask]
<br> home: [log in to unmask]
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<p><hr>Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit <a href=http://www.msn.com>www.msn.com</a><br></body></html>
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Date: Thu, 29 Jul 1999 15:15:51 EDT
Reply-To: The Gambia and related-issues mailing list
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From: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [Re: Makes one wonder....]
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Saiks,
I see the point you are trying to make and I certainly agree with you that
there seems to a hidden agenda. The fact that they are propagating to bury
the political party system tells a lot about them.
I would want to see the whole manifesto if anyone on the L- could provide it
for me at my cost I will appreciate it.
Thanks for that enlightenment.
Ousman Bojang.
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Date: Thu, 29 Jul 1999 16:17:05 -0400
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From: "Malanding S. Jaiteh" <[log in to unmask]>
Organization: Michigan Technological University
Subject: Re: [Re: Makes one wonder....]
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Folks,
I guess what makes me wonder after reading the "cum manifesto" are:
1. Is it in the Leadership's interest for an organization claiming to be
loyal to him and his ideals as peace-loving and democratic to take it upon
themselves to ensure that " ...non productive and self interest bourgeoisie
and petty bourgeoisie should not be allowed to find the necessary conditions
of existence and growth."
2. would the movement in pursuit of these goals (points 1-4 of the
manifesto) help the their
leader establish himself as democratic, peace-loving and law-abiding?
Malanding Jaiteh
----- Original Message -----
From: <[log in to unmask]>
To: <[log in to unmask]>
Sent: Thursday, July 29, 1999 3:15 PM
Subject: Re: [Re: Makes one wonder....]
> Saiks,
> I see the point you are trying to make and I certainly agree with you that
> there seems to a hidden agenda. The fact that they are propagating to bury
> the political party system tells a lot about them.
> I would want to see the whole manifesto if anyone on the L- could provide
it
> for me at my cost I will appreciate it.
> Thanks for that enlightenment.
>
> Ousman Bojang.
>
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------
--
>
> To unsubscribe/subscribe or view archives of postings, go to the Gambia-L
> Web interface at: http://maelstrom.stjohns.edu/archives/gambia-l.html
>
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------
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>
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Date: Tue, 27 Jul 1999 00:57:42 +0100
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From: Ndey Jobarteh <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: The African Intellectual
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Ous,
I think this sums up the debate on the African Interllectuals or shall i say
move it to a different dimension. We cannot just sit down and say the
interllectuals are solely responsilbe for the situation in Africa. Every
African a what level is responsilbe to the situation in Africa and don't
forget it is not only the interllectuals who cast their votes. We are all
custodians of our societies and what i liked more in your peice is the
analogy you give on the type of education we received. Maybe Saul and
Mambuna should have looked at what makes the interllectuals what they
believe them to be starting from themselves. Looking at the type of
education could be a good start
I believe what made the debate with Saul out of touch was that he was using
too much rethorics he did not understand and was not willing to understand.
It is like when i heard an MP labelling the Gambian youths as lazy. I said
to myself i must talk to that guy and make sure I understand what he meant
by that. Of course after some confrontations we came to an agreement that,
it is not the case this is a rethoric used by the present regime without a
thorough understanding of the Gambian Youths.
I think it is even a crime to say that once one is in Europe or the West one
should shut up, I believe that is a weakness, it is also a lack of courage
to face up to criticism and challenging debate. It is also wrong to assumed
that everyone in the West is enjoying and happily living in the West. One
thing we have to look at also is how to get the interllectuals working
effectively inside and outside the country with a agenda to effect change at
home.
The Struggle Continues!!!
Ndey Jobarteh
-----Original Message-----
From: [log in to unmask] <[log in to unmask]>
To: [log in to unmask] <[log in to unmask]>
Date: 29 July 1999 08:17
Subject: The African Intellectual
>I read the piece my brother Saul Bajo talked about the intellectuals with
so
>much interest. The getting on one "another's throat" as Uncle Jay might
call
>it was of interest. Bamba Lie, Tenn, Mambuna, Scattred and a lot more added
>light to it which really made iteven more interesting. In fact it made me
>agree with the gentleman who suggested to the L-managers to have a bank of
>some pieces on the L- for future references.
>Those of us who might not be intellectuals seems to blame them for not
coming
>to our rescue when we think we needed them the most. Yes, that might sound
>selfish, but it is arguably human to be. It is always easier to blame
someone
>else for whatever. This is because we feel that we are in a situation(s)
>where their services are needed. We agreed and kind of in denial that we
need
>them for we think that they could bring some new ideas and very valuable
>skills towards development which we might not be able to get. The
>construction of our envision Africa full of intellectuals with Africanise
>ideas is just a fantasy.
>When we talk of intellectuals, we measure them by not what they do or can
do
>for us, but by Western University standards using Western ideals. We tend
to
>forget that they are products of the Western curriculum and it does not
>matter where they studied. They might have graduated from African
>Universities, but their intelligence are typical foreign (Western) models.
>Being an Intellectual in Africa and being an African Intellectual are two
>different persons. An Intellectual who cannot relate him/herself to our
>problems is a danger to the society and therefore those kinds are better
off
>staying outside. These are the ones whose background on African affairs are
>rooted from what they are able to hear and read from books written by those
>like them. And those books are also edited and published by the same
Western
>Institutions.
>However, blaming these intellectuals for what they came into being
>UN-intellectually unknowing, makes me feel guilty. Our societies have
groomed
>these people not to be accepted by us when they return. We view them as if
>they are trying to impose their Western ideas on us and would not give them
>the chance to give their opinions. Our governments are equally guilty of
not
>being able to create a flourishable atmosphere. They are seen as threats if
>they disagree on principles and if they have different ideals, they are
>viewed as reactionaries. Therefore, some of the good ones who feared not to
>take a stand as true intellectuals end up imposing self exile.
>Of course Africa needs all her people, but our leaders are not prepared to
>accept that as a reality.
>African intellectuals no doubt owes Africa a lot. Not only being side
>commentators will suffice, but there has to be an audience receptive to new
>ideas and not afraid of change. African governments has to improve their
>relationship with her intellectuals on the bases of need and not wants. The
>whole of Africa might have big lettered titles after our names, but until
we
>are ready to measure ourselves with the future and not the past, we are
>doomed to fail. The past should just be a lesson for us to search for more
>solutions to our problems.
>All that we asks of our intellectuals is commitment. It is not going to be
an
>easy transition from a Western student to an African leader. they have to
be
>ready to experiment their ideals back home. Yes, it is true that a lot of
>those who tried to experiment before never went okay, but I am sure they
>would agree with me that there is no place like home. Yes, taking stands on
>issues has always put a lot of us in trouble, but no intellectual should be
>afraid of that. In fact that is what makes one an intellectual. I hope
Ebrima
>Ceesay puts that into consideration when he starts to work on his
Directory.
>If any one fails to take stand for whatever reasons, they are bound to be
on
>the wrong side of history.
>I apologize if I bore anyone with my composition. I am trying to improve on
>it.
>
>Ousman Bojang.
>
>---------------------------------------------------------------------------
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>
>To unsubscribe/subscribe or view archives of postings, go to the Gambia-L
>Web interface at: http://maelstrom.stjohns.edu/archives/gambia-l.html
>
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>
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Date: Tue, 27 Jul 1999 00:58:37 +0100
Reply-To: The Gambia and related-issues mailing list
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: The Gambia and related-issues mailing list
<[log in to unmask]>
From: Ndey Jobarteh <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Makes one wonder....
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Fragment of the July 22nd Manifesto,
<<<"We therefore urge all our various political parties, PDOIS, NRP, UDP =
and APRC and any other party that is to emerge to try and look for a =
forum for progessive discussion to advance forward, than to embark on =
the politics of mere words of "KAJAFIROO", "DJATAGOL" or "SAGANTEH" and =
mere criticism for the want of a better offer of alternatives to satisfy =
the needs of the people other than rhetorics and the use of foreign =
concepts of governing only as a means to project an image or cause =
confusion with the sole aim of ruling. All these bring about confusion =
and conflict which always result in wars and destabilization of nations. =
Now this style of political agitation is old-fashioned and must cease to =
exist. In fact the party system is old and should be buried. It merely =
projects the fulfillment of the desire of a group of individuals who =
have come together to rule for themselves." >>>
Reading this i thought it is a joke as many of us have already =
mentioned.How dare they even try to categories the opposition in manners =
that the July 22nd Movement is very well known off. THe July 22nd =
Movement is just a movement for oppression and suppression of the =
Gambian people. I was glad that at one of the parliametary seatings i =
attended while at home, a member of the oppositon asked the minstry of =
Interior " Is the Police accountable to the July 22nd Movement?" And I =
said to my self that is a very good question to asked since a lot of =
Gambians would like to get an answer as well as clearly defined roles of =
the July 22nd Movement. The July 22nd Movement is just a thugery =
sprinter group that is solely aimed at strengthening the AFPRC Regime at =
all cost as well as their own self centred interest.
=20
Looking at the manifesto we can clearly see who this group is, we can =
see the areas they are making emphaising.
=20
<<<<<<The aftermath of party politics in African countries is to split =
individuals and families, communities and societies causing total havoc =
and disorder through vehicles of a) tribalism, b) regionalism c) =
ideological differences and confusion.>>>>>
Infact these are the skills of the July 22nd Movement, I would have been =
very glad if they address these issues in their rangs, redefine their =
roles, what they really want to do, who they really want to be, whose =
interest they are representing?
=20
<<<<<<1) The life of our beloved leader must be protected through the =
sacrifice of all Gambians especially the youths>>>
I think this sums it all, if any leader wants this kind of protection i =
believe that leader should give the same kind of protection to its =
citizens. You cannot expect to bully, torture , oppress and suppress =
your citizens and then be protected through scarifice.=20
I beleive that the July 22nd Movement needs to be disolved after making =
such a mokry manifesto, they just need to go back home and relaxed.
The Struggle Continues!!!
Ndey Jobarteh
=20
Original Message-----
From: Malanding S. Jaiteh <[log in to unmask]>
To: [log in to unmask] <[log in to unmask]>
Date: 29 July 1999 06:15
Subject: Makes one wonder....
This from the POINT's Monday edition.=20
Makes one wonder whether this is in the interest of the =
Leader they claim to cherish so dearly! =20
Malanding Jaiteh
=20
=20
Manifesto Of The July 22 Movement
=20
=20
On the occasion of the anniversary of the July 22nd =
takeover, the July 22nd Movement has issued a statement cum manifesto =
outlining its beliefs, loyalty to President Jammeh, The Gambia and =
Africa..
=20
=20
The July 22nd Movement re-committed itself to the building =
of The Gambia, Africa based on true democratic principles, =
accountability, transparency, equity, good governance and self-reliance. =
The document described the following as the activities of =
the movement:=20
General: anti-drug, intelligence, border security - =
smuggling and trafficking, self-help development projects, agriculture =
- farming, environmental protection against bush fires, illegal felling =
of trees, sanitation; participation in nation building.=20
After tracing the history of politics and its present =
features, the movement affirms: " In the African context therefore, =
political parties have quite often failed to address the issues of the =
masses. They become more concerned with securing power in order to =
project their common interest. The idea of consensus fails to emerge as =
is the cultural norm. The aftermath of party politics in African =
countries is to split individuals and families, communities and =
societies causing total havoc and disorder through vehicles of a) =
tribalism, b) regionalism c) ideological differences and confusion.=20
This has resulted to the backwardness of most nations in =
general and Africa in particular.=20
Being in such an entanglement for so long we should respect =
and uphold the sincerity and commitment of our leadership in moving this =
country progessively into the new millennium"=20
The July 22nd Movement further opined that in the current =
political development in The Gambia, what must be recognised is "the =
very good and invaluable qualities of our leadership in the very person =
of (RTD) Col. Dr. Yahya Abdul Aziz Jemus Junkung Jammeh. The leadership =
that so dearly cherished the power of the masses to have the concept =
entrenched in the Constitution; the leadership that has in the sgort =
span of the takeover put in place ideological concepts and development =
activities that progessively into the new millennium-educational =
infrastructure, health facilities, agricultural philisophy and practices =
for food security, telecommunications technology, road infrastructure."=20
Call On Political Parties:=20
"We therefore urge all our various political parties, PDOIS, =
NRP, UDP and APRC and any other party that is to emerge to try and look =
for a forum for progessive discussion to advance forward, than to embark =
on the politics of mere words of "KAJAFIROO", "DJATAGOL" or "SAGANTEH" =
and mere criticism for the want of a better offer of alternatives to =
satisfy the needs of the people other than rhetorics and the use of =
foreign concepts of governing only as a means to project an image or =
cause confusion with the sole aim of ruling. All these bring about =
confusion and conflict which always result in wars and destabilization =
of nations. Now this style of political agitation is old-fashioned and =
must cease to exist. In fact the party system is old and should be =
buried. It merely projects the fulfillment of the desire of a group of =
individuals who have come together to rule for themselves."=20
Part of the conclusions of the statement cum manifesto is as =
follows: " 1) The life of our beloved leader must be protected through =
the sacrifice of all Gambians especially the youths.=20
2) His ideas ad ideology should be inculcated into the =
youths of the nation through mass mobilization ad sensitization from =
village level, District, Division and expanding to the international =
level.=20
3) Peace and stability in the country must be sustained at =
all cost.=20
4) In our society, non productive and self interest =
bourgeoisie and petty bourgeoisie should not be allowed to find the =
necessary conditions of existence and growth.
=20
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<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD W3 HTML//EN">
<HTML>
<HEAD>
<META content=3Dtext/html;charset=3Diso-8859-1 =
http-equiv=3DContent-Type><!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD W3 =
HTML//EN"><!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<META content=3D'"MSHTML 4.72.3110.7"' name=3DGENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV>
<P><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>Fragment of the July 22nd =
Manifesto,</FONT></P>
<P><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2></FONT><<<"We therefore =
urge all our=20
various political parties, PDOIS, NRP, UDP and APRC and any other party =
that is=20
to emerge to try and look for a forum for progessive discussion to =
advance=20
forward, than to embark on the politics of mere words of =
"KAJAFIROO",=20
"DJATAGOL" or "SAGANTEH" and mere criticism for the =
want of=20
a better offer of alternatives to satisfy the needs of the people other =
than=20
rhetorics and the use of foreign concepts of governing only as a means =
to=20
project an image or cause confusion with the sole aim of ruling. All =
these bring=20
about confusion and conflict which always result in wars and =
destabilization of=20
nations. Now this style of political agitation is old-fashioned and must =
cease=20
to exist. In fact the party system is old and should be buried. It =
merely=20
projects the fulfillment of the desire of a group of individuals who =
have come=20
together to rule for themselves." >>></P></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>Reading this i thought it is a joke =
as many of=20
us have already mentioned.How dare they even try to categories the =
opposition in=20
manners that the July 22nd Movement is very well known off. THe July =
22nd=20
Movement is just a movement for oppression and suppression of the =
Gambian=20
people. I was glad that at one of the parliametary seatings i attended =
while at=20
home, a member of the oppositon asked the minstry of Interior " Is =
the=20
Police accountable to the July 22nd Movement?" And I said to =
my self=20
that is a very good question to asked since a lot of Gambians would like =
to get=20
an answer as well as clearly defined roles of the July 22nd Movement. =
The July=20
22nd Movement is just a thugery sprinter group that is solely =
aimed at=20
strengthening the AFPRC Regime at all cost as well as their own self =
centred=20
interest.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>Looking at the manifesto we can clearly see who this =
group is,=20
we can see the areas they are making emphaising.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><<<<<<The aftermath of party politics in African=20
countries is to split individuals and families, communities and =
societies=20
causing total havoc and disorder through vehicles of a) tribalism, b)=20
regionalism c) ideological differences and =
confusion.>>>>></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Infact these are the skills of the July 22nd Movement, I would have =
been=20
very glad if they address these issues in their rangs, redefine =
their=20
roles, what they really want to do, who they really want to be, whose =
interest=20
they are representing?</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><B></B></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><<<<<<1) The life of our beloved leader must be =
protected=20
through the sacrifice of all Gambians especially the =
youths>>></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>I think this sums it all, if any leader wants this kind of =
protection i=20
believe that leader should give the same kind of protection to its =
citizens. You=20
cannot expect to bully, torture , oppress and suppress your citizens and =
then be=20
protected through scarifice. </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>I beleive that the July 22nd Movement needs to be disolved after =
making=20
such a mokry manifesto, they just need to go back home and =
relaxed.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>The Struggle Continues!!!</DIV>
<DIV>Ndey Jobarteh</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><B></B></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><B>Original =
Message-----</B><BR><B>From:=20
</B>Malanding S. Jaiteh <<A=20
href=3D"mailto:[log in to unmask]">[log in to unmask]</A>><BR><B>To: =
</B><A=20
href=3D"mailto:[log in to unmask]">[log in to unmask]
.EDU</A>=20
<<A=20
href=3D"mailto:[log in to unmask]">[log in to unmask]
.EDU</A>><BR><B>Date:=20
</B>29 July 1999 06:15<BR><B>Subject: </B>Makes one=20
wonder....<BR><BR></DIV></FONT>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>
<TABLE border=3D0 cellPadding=3D0 cellSpacing=3D0 width=3D502 NOF =3D =
LY>
<TBODY>
<TR align=3Dleft vAlign=3Dtop>
<TD colSpan=3D4 width=3D498>
<P align=3Dleft><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>This from the =
POINT's=20
Monday edition. </FONT></P>
<P align=3Dleft><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>Makes one =
wonder whether=20
this is in the interest of the Leader they claim to cherish =
so=20
dearly! </FONT></P>
<P align=3Dleft><FONT size=3D2>Malanding Jaiteh</FONT></P>
<P align=3Dcenter> </P>
<P align=3Dcenter><FONT color=3D#000000 =
size=3D+4></FONT> </P>
<P align=3Dcenter><B><FONT color=3D#000000 =
size=3D+4>Manifesto Of=20
</FONT><FONT size=3D+4>The July 22 =
Movement</FONT></B></P></TD>
<TD colSpan=3D4></TD></TR>
<TR align=3Dleft vAlign=3Dtop>
<TD colSpan=3D8 height=3D8></TD></TR>
<TR align=3Dleft vAlign=3Dtop>
<TD colSpan=3D6 width=3D500>
<P><B><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D+1>On the occasion of the =
anniversary=20
of the July 22nd takeover, the July 22nd Movement has issued =
a=20
statement cum manifesto outlining its beliefs, loyalty to =
President=20
Jammeh, The Gambia and Africa.</FONT><FONT =
size=3D-1></FONT></B><FONT=20
size=3D-1>.</FONT></P></TD>
<TD colSpan=3D2></TD></TR>
<TR align=3Dleft vAlign=3Dtop>
<TD colSpan=3D8 height=3D7></TD></TR>
<TR align=3Dleft vAlign=3Dtop>
<TD colSpan=3D6 width=3D500>
<P><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman,Times,Times NewRoman" =
size=3D-1>The=20
July 22nd Movement re-committed itself to the building of =
The=20
Gambia, Africa based on true democratic principles, =
accountability,=20
transparency, equity, good governance and self-reliance.=20
<P>The document described the following as the activities of =
the=20
movement:=20
<P>General: anti-drug, intelligence, border security - =
smuggling and=20
trafficking, self-help development projects, =
agriculture -=20
farming, environmental protection against bush fires, =
illegal=20
felling of trees, sanitation; participation in nation =
building.=20
<P>After tracing the history of politics and its present =
features,=20
the movement affirms: " In the African context =
therefore,=20
political parties have quite often failed to address the =
issues of=20
the masses. They become more concerned with securing power =
in order=20
to project their common interest. The idea of consensus =
fails to=20
emerge as is the cultural norm. The aftermath of party =
politics in=20
African countries is to split individuals and families, =
communities=20
and societies causing total havoc and disorder through =
vehicles of=20
a) tribalism, b) regionalism c) ideological differences and=20
confusion.=20
<P>This has resulted to the backwardness of most nations in =
general=20
and Africa in particular.=20
<P>Being in such an entanglement for so long we should =
respect and=20
uphold the sincerity and commitment of our leadership in =
moving this=20
country progessively into the new millennium"=20
<P>The July 22nd Movement further opined that in the current =
political development in The Gambia, what must be recognised =
is=20
"the very good and invaluable qualities of our =
leadership in=20
the very person of (RTD) Col. Dr. Yahya Abdul Aziz Jemus =
Junkung=20
Jammeh. The leadership that so dearly cherished the power of =
the=20
masses to have the concept entrenched in the Constitution; =
the=20
leadership that has in the sgort span of the takeover put in =
place=20
ideological concepts and development activities that =
progessively=20
into the new millennium-educational infrastructure, health=20
facilities, agricultural philisophy and practices for food =
security,=20
telecommunications technology, road infrastructure."=20
<P>Call On Political Parties:=20
<P>"We therefore urge all our various political =
parties, PDOIS,=20
NRP, UDP and APRC and any other party that is to emerge to =
try and=20
look for a forum for progessive discussion to advance =
forward, than=20
to embark on the politics of mere words of =
"KAJAFIROO",=20
"DJATAGOL" or "SAGANTEH" and mere =
criticism for=20
the want of a better offer of alternatives to satisfy the =
needs of=20
the people other than rhetorics and the use of foreign =
concepts of=20
governing only as a means to project an image or cause =
confusion=20
with the sole aim of ruling. All these bring about confusion =
and=20
conflict which always result in wars and destabilization of =
nations.=20
Now this style of political agitation is old-fashioned and =
must=20
cease to exist. In fact the party system is old and should =
be=20
buried. It merely projects the fulfillment of the desire of =
a group=20
of individuals who have come together to rule for =
themselves."=20
<P>Part of the conclusions of the statement cum manifesto is =
as=20
follows: " 1) The life of our beloved leader must be =
protected=20
through the sacrifice of all Gambians especially the youths. =
<P>2) His ideas ad ideology should be inculcated into the =
youths of=20
the nation through mass mobilization ad sensitization from =
village=20
level, District, Division and expanding to the international =
level.=20
<P>3) Peace and stability in the country must be sustained =
at all=20
cost.=20
<P>4) In our society, non productive and self interest=20
bourgeoisie and petty bourgeoisie should not be =
allowed to=20
find the necessary conditions of existence and =
growth.</FONT></P></TD>
<TD =
colSpan=3D2></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>
------=_NextPart_000_000F_01BED7CB.28ACD1A0--
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Date: Thu, 29 Jul 1999 20:40:17 EDT
Reply-To: The Gambia and related-issues mailing list
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: The Gambia and related-issues mailing list
<[log in to unmask]>
From: [log in to unmask]
Subject: THANKS FOR YOUR SUPPORT
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Members of Gambia-L:
I returned from Gambia 3 days ago, and would like to take a moment and thank
you on behalf of my entire family, for the enormous amount of support and
encouragement we received from you. I found solace in your mails, and I
cannot even begin to describe how appreciative I am.
My twin brother (Adama Sey) will be in Gambia until mid September, and he
currently does not have access to the Internet. However, I will forward all
your messages of condolence to his e-mail address for him to view upon his
return to the UK.
Losing a loved one is always very difficult to process, but when you have
friends, family and loved ones who sincerely care, the pain and heartache
becomes less severe. My faith in Allah also helps me accept the misfortunes
He presented me within the past month and a half.
I feel blessed to be in the midst of kind people like you, and I pray for
Allah to keep us united - Amin.
Regards,
Awa Sey
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Date: Thu, 29 Jul 1999 23:24:32 EDT
Reply-To: The Gambia and related-issues mailing list
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: The Gambia and related-issues mailing list
<[log in to unmask]>
From: [log in to unmask]
Subject: FWD: AA Employment Website (fwd)
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Keep as reference material:
There is now a new African American employment web site called
http://www.Employus.com. This site came online July 26, 1999.
Currently, we are looking for professional African Americans to
build a resume pool. Top notch employers specifically looking for
African Americans will be added the first week of August. So get
your resume online now!
This site is fully automated and has some nice features. For
example, you can have an e-mail sent to you whenever an employer
views your resume.
This site will only get better in time with the support of the
online African American community.
This site is 100% black owned. PLEASE FORWARD THIS MESSAGE TO
FRIENDS/CO-WORKERS.
>>
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Date: Fri, 30 Jul 1999 01:50:59 -0700
Reply-To: The Gambia and related-issues mailing list
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: The Gambia and related-issues mailing list
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From: ALAN MBOOJ <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: The African Intellectual
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Ndey,
The tie between the political elite and the economic one is so tight that only few intellectuals
can challenge the system and survive. Any one who choose to be intellectually honest must also be
willing to give up a lot of privileges that goes with higher education. The situation is not
helped by the undemocratic nature of Ganbian society(by this I mean the ruling elite who are
always driving for the exclusion of opponents or even supporters who say that what is being done
may not be right)and the blatant disregard of the 1997 constitution and the payment of lip service
to the rule of law.
Secondly, the reward for the intellectuals in terms of standard of living will stand at about 10%
of that enjoyed in the West. Let us remember in a market oriented economy, which means that any
person will go for what is in his/her best interest. What is best for the individual is normally
set by his/her ideological standpoint.
alanmbooj
===
NEVER CROUCH, CRINGE OR CRAWL
RAISE YOUR HEAD AND STAND TALL.
_____________________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Free instant messaging and more at http://messenger.yahoo.com
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Date: Fri, 30 Jul 1999 01:58:58 -0700
Reply-To: The Gambia and related-issues mailing list
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: The Gambia and related-issues mailing list
<[log in to unmask]>
From: ALAN MBOOJ <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Makes one wonder....
MIME-Version: 1.0
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Ndey,
This manifesto goes to strengthen my believe that the aim of Baba Jobe and his gang of thugs is to
take over the reign of state for themselves and establish a one party state as is in libya.
Jammeh, as an individual is every happy with what is going on to his detriment. However we the
Gambian people are not asleep will try to thwart their efforts wherever we are and whenever we
can.
alanmbooj
===
NEVER CROUCH, CRINGE OR CRAWL
RAISE YOUR HEAD AND STAND TALL.
_____________________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Free instant messaging and more at http://messenger.yahoo.com
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Date: Fri, 30 Jul 1999 06:18:06 PDT
Reply-To: The Gambia and related-issues mailing list
<[log in to unmask]>
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From: ebrima ceesay <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Why has Socialism failed?
Mime-Version: 1.0
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Gambia L,
As I was going through my letters a few minutes ago, I saw one e-mail
written to me in private, in which the writer - a Gambia L subscriber
studying political science - has asked me to help him tackle these two
questions - why has Socialism failed and whether it does have a future or
not - as part of his research.
Well, I do know that the writer is asking these questions in private and
would therefore want/expect my answers to be posted to him, also, in
private.
But I've decided to send my comments through the L, so that people who know
better might also help him in tackling these questions for the research he
is conducting. Someone rightly said the other day on the L that no one has a
monopoly of ideas.
"Why has Socialism failed? Does it have a future a future?", are the two
questions he asked. Well, because of lack of research as I write this piece,
I'll have to be briefed.
All the same, it is, of course, an open secret that Socialism has indeed
suffered reverses and not lived up to expectations. However, having said
that, it is also a fact that in human history, it is not unusual nor
unprecedented for ideas to suffer such reverses and bounced back with time
to fulfill their mission. Therefore, an idea rejected with bitterness today
may well emerge the wisdom of another time.
For instance, no one would have thought - or believed - that the sun will
ever rise for capitalism when its foundations crumbled in the 1930s, during
the dreary depression.
I am of the view that the failure of capitalism then and the failure of
Socialism today is but a failure in truthfully implementing an idea. They
say a brilliant idea in the wrong hands may prove a disaster.
The real problem of Socialism was the dogmatism and rigidity with which the
implementors went about their task. And needless to say that a good ideology
must be flexible and adaptive. Brother Saiks, please feel free to correct
me. Your input/thoughts would be most appreciated.
In m view, what must be acknowledged is the fact that many of the
implementors of Socialism were not genuine or sincere at all!! For example,
throughout the history of socialist rule, ever since the Bolsheviks
triumphed in 1917, it had been the maxim in socialist press theory that like
all institutions, the press must be under the firm control of the
proletariat, here translated to mean control by the communist party.
To achieve this control, censorship laws were resorted to. But I was taken
aback, or surprised, when I discovered - some time ago - what Marx himself,
father of Socialism, had said on the question of the press which the
implementors had buried/hidden as they killed Marxism on the altar of their
own political survival. This is why I have been emphasizing that this is an
era of endless reading.
Condemning press censorship and encouraging press freedom, Marx had written,
among other things, that..."The censored press has a demoralising effect. It
is a potentiated evil from which hypocrisy is inseparable, and from this
fundamental evil flow all its other weaknesses. The government hears only
its own voice, and yet fixes itself in the delusion it is hearing the voice
of the people and demands of the people that they, too, affix to this
delusion"...
It is unfortunate that as I write this piece, I do not have the whole
statement Marx had given, in relation to press freedom, but it is,
nonetheless, clear - based on these quotations - that there are indeed
enough guidelines in Marxism to support genuine democratic rights. The
problem of Socialism therefore had to do with its implementors' lack of
sincerity and also their lack of flexibility.
Capitalism, as seen by Marx and Engels, had also shown that rigidity as the
bourgeoisie became slaves to their greed. However, what saved capitalism was
the preparedness of modern capitalists to trim off the ugly edges by
introducing socialist recommendations, by giving it a human face, by
stressing the welfare component, which ultimately increase the profits for
the owners.
Therefore, the future of socialism, in my view, lies in adopting capitalist
methods or any other device that will enhance the attainment of a society
which guarantees that every citizen can have decent standard of living.
Where modern socialism went wrong was to plunge into the past and use
feudalist practices to achieve socialism.(Again I stand to be corrected)
Finally, it is interesting to observe that while America's capitalism claims
victory over socialism, thousands are homeless in the land of plenty, where
some people have 20-bedroom mansions. The US is bathing in a bloodbath;
crime and violence marks the skyline and what the books do not say is that
capitalism is what breeds the malaise.
Last night I was glued to my TV, watching CNN's live coverage of yet another
shooting, this time in Atlanta Georgia, in which 12 people were reportedly
killed and several others injured. It is indeed regrettable that while
cities in the USA should be in a race to find out who has done more for its
residents, the race is about crime statistics, about how many people have
been killed in a month.
Because of lack of research, I do not have the statistics of the current
killings in the US, but while I was there in 1995, thousands were slain in
the whole of the US for that particular year. Hundreds were slain in New
york alone.
At the time, homicide had outstripped other causes as the leading killer of
black males aged 14 to 25 and random killings had also soared. In fact,
there were cities which even set murder records.
Surely, America is an advanced/developed country, but it is also a fact that
it has shown retrogression in other aspects. Isn't it therefore ironic/funny
when you read in the newspapers that the US is sending so much aid to Africa
and other parts of the world, and yet thousands of its citizens are homeless
and begging on the streets?
Ebrima Ceesay,
Birmingham, UK.
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Date: Fri, 30 Jul 1999 07:21:17 PDT
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From: ebrima ceesay <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Books written by black writers
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Gambia L,
For those of you who wrote privately asking about where to get/order good
books written by blacks authors, be they Africans in Africa or Africans in
the diaspora, well Sandra has given me this address:
New Beacon Books
76 Stroud Green Road
London
N4 3EN
Tel: 0171 272 4889
They are among her suppliers. Their web page is:
http//www.newbeacon-books.com
Ebrima Ceesay,
Birmingham, UK.
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Date: Fri, 30 Jul 1999 09:31:30 CDT
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From: "Omar E. Njie" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: The African Intellectual
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Ladies and Gentlemen,
Let me first commend the brother who first brought up this interesting
debate and well as Mambuna, Ndey, and all who contributed to it.
The fact that ALL Gambians (both at home and outside) have a duty to
contribute towards national development is a constant. If we don't, no one
will do it for us. Like Mambuna argued, we are all a part of the problem.
I however understand that all of us do not have to be at home to contribute
to Gambia's development. Dr. Sulayman Nyang, as a respected scholar at
Howard is probably in a better position (directly or indirectly) to
influence US foreign policy (say, through the Congressional Black Caucus).
Dr. Tijan Sallah, through his work with the World Bank may have the ability
(directly or indirectly) to influence/facilitate favorable fiscal
transactions between the Bank and The Gambia. These gentlemen may not be
able to do this if they were in The Gambia.
As to the worthiness of Western education, may I remind folks that we are
now living in a global economy. Whether we like it or not, we have to deal
with different folks from different nations and cultural backgrounds in the
process of national development. This is where our western education will
come real handy! Besides, can't we go home with our western education and
work within a Gambian context?
Regards to all,
Omar E. Njie
>From: Ndey Jobarteh <[log in to unmask]>
>Reply-To: The Gambia and related-issues mailing list
><[log in to unmask]>
>To: [log in to unmask]
>Subject: Re: The African Intellectual
>Date: Tue, 27 Jul 1999 00:57:42 +0100
>
>Ous,
>
>I think this sums up the debate on the African Interllectuals or shall i
>say
>move it to a different dimension. We cannot just sit down and say the
>interllectuals are solely responsilbe for the situation in Africa. Every
>African a what level is responsilbe to the situation in Africa and don't
>forget it is not only the interllectuals who cast their votes. We are all
>custodians of our societies and what i liked more in your peice is the
>analogy you give on the type of education we received. Maybe Saul and
>Mambuna should have looked at what makes the interllectuals what they
>believe them to be starting from themselves. Looking at the type of
>education could be a good start
>
>I believe what made the debate with Saul out of touch was that he was
>using
>too much rethorics he did not understand and was not willing to understand.
>It is like when i heard an MP labelling the Gambian youths as lazy. I said
>to myself i must talk to that guy and make sure I understand what he meant
>by that. Of course after some confrontations we came to an agreement that,
>it is not the case this is a rethoric used by the present regime without a
>thorough understanding of the Gambian Youths.
>
>I think it is even a crime to say that once one is in Europe or the West
>one
>should shut up, I believe that is a weakness, it is also a lack of courage
>to face up to criticism and challenging debate. It is also wrong to assumed
>that everyone in the West is enjoying and happily living in the West. One
>thing we have to look at also is how to get the interllectuals working
>effectively inside and outside the country with a agenda to effect change
>at
>home.
>
>The Struggle Continues!!!
>Ndey Jobarteh
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: [log in to unmask] <[log in to unmask]>
>To: [log in to unmask] <[log in to unmask]>
>Date: 29 July 1999 08:17
>Subject: The African Intellectual
>
>
> >I read the piece my brother Saul Bajo talked about the intellectuals with
>so
> >much interest. The getting on one "another's throat" as Uncle Jay might
>call
> >it was of interest. Bamba Lie, Tenn, Mambuna, Scattred and a lot more
>added
> >light to it which really made iteven more interesting. In fact it made me
> >agree with the gentleman who suggested to the L-managers to have a bank
>of
> >some pieces on the L- for future references.
> >Those of us who might not be intellectuals seems to blame them for not
>coming
> >to our rescue when we think we needed them the most. Yes, that might
>sound
> >selfish, but it is arguably human to be. It is always easier to blame
>someone
> >else for whatever. This is because we feel that we are in a situation(s)
> >where their services are needed. We agreed and kind of in denial that we
>need
> >them for we think that they could bring some new ideas and very valuable
> >skills towards development which we might not be able to get. The
> >construction of our envision Africa full of intellectuals with Africanise
> >ideas is just a fantasy.
> >When we talk of intellectuals, we measure them by not what they do or can
>do
> >for us, but by Western University standards using Western ideals. We tend
>to
> >forget that they are products of the Western curriculum and it does not
> >matter where they studied. They might have graduated from African
> >Universities, but their intelligence are typical foreign (Western)
>models.
> >Being an Intellectual in Africa and being an African Intellectual are two
> >different persons. An Intellectual who cannot relate him/herself to our
> >problems is a danger to the society and therefore those kinds are better
>off
> >staying outside. These are the ones whose background on African affairs
>are
> >rooted from what they are able to hear and read from books written by
>those
> >like them. And those books are also edited and published by the same
>Western
> >Institutions.
> >However, blaming these intellectuals for what they came into being
> >UN-intellectually unknowing, makes me feel guilty. Our societies have
>groomed
> >these people not to be accepted by us when they return. We view them as
>if
> >they are trying to impose their Western ideas on us and would not give
>them
> >the chance to give their opinions. Our governments are equally guilty of
>not
> >being able to create a flourishable atmosphere. They are seen as threats
>if
> >they disagree on principles and if they have different ideals, they are
> >viewed as reactionaries. Therefore, some of the good ones who feared not
>to
> >take a stand as true intellectuals end up imposing self exile.
> >Of course Africa needs all her people, but our leaders are not prepared
>to
> >accept that as a reality.
> >African intellectuals no doubt owes Africa a lot. Not only being side
> >commentators will suffice, but there has to be an audience receptive to
>new
> >ideas and not afraid of change. African governments has to improve their
> >relationship with her intellectuals on the bases of need and not wants.
>The
> >whole of Africa might have big lettered titles after our names, but until
>we
> >are ready to measure ourselves with the future and not the past, we are
> >doomed to fail. The past should just be a lesson for us to search for
>more
> >solutions to our problems.
> >All that we asks of our intellectuals is commitment. It is not going to
>be
>an
> >easy transition from a Western student to an African leader. they have to
>be
> >ready to experiment their ideals back home. Yes, it is true that a lot of
> >those who tried to experiment before never went okay, but I am sure they
> >would agree with me that there is no place like home. Yes, taking stands
>on
> >issues has always put a lot of us in trouble, but no intellectual should
>be
> >afraid of that. In fact that is what makes one an intellectual. I hope
>Ebrima
> >Ceesay puts that into consideration when he starts to work on his
>Directory.
> >If any one fails to take stand for whatever reasons, they are bound to be
>on
> >the wrong side of history.
> >I apologize if I bore anyone with my composition. I am trying to improve
>on
> >it.
> >
> >Ousman Bojang.
> >
> >---------------------------------------------------------------------------
>-
> >
> >To unsubscribe/subscribe or view archives of postings, go to the Gambia-L
> >Web interface at: http://maelstrom.stjohns.edu/archives/gambia-l.html
> >
> >---------------------------------------------------------------------------
>-
> >
>
>----------------------------------------------------------------------------
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Date: Fri, 30 Jul 1999 15:00:22 -0400
Reply-To: The Gambia and related-issues mailing list
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From: Ebrima Jobe <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: The African Intellectual
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Hello OMAR,
That was well said and I just wanted to add my two cents.You don't have
to be at home to contribute to the development of the GAMBIA.You can be
anywhere in the world and still be part of the betterment of our dear
country.As Ndey said it in her posting,you don't have to be an
intellectual to be part of this process.We are all responsible and
should do something about it.I, personally know some people in the
diaspora,who have been sponsoring poor kids at home by paying their
school fees.Also, there are many progressive organizations like
GESO,Gambia Foundation,and
Gambia Support Group that are sending books,computers...which are badly
needed at home.So,let's all try to be part of the solution by doing what
we can.
Weyeh.
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Date: Fri, 30 Jul 1999 12:06:39 -0800
Reply-To: The Gambia and related-issues mailing list
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From: Malafy Jarju <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Fwd: GIVE WAR A CHANCE?
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folks,
I thought this might be an interesting piece. To intervene or to let '=
them' fight to the end!!!! Hmmm.
FROM THE ECONOMIST (July 31st-Aug. 6th)
OTHER PEOPLE'S WARS ON THE face of it, this has been a good season for =
peace, and a good one for intervention. Over the past few weeks,
agreements have been reached to end three of Africa*s nastiest wars*in =
Congo, in Sierra Leone and between Ethiopia a=
nd Eritrea. Sense and restraint have prevailed,
with some help from outsiders, in the dispute between
India and Pakistan over Kashmir. And in Kosovo the West
has put a stop to Serb ethnic cleansing. All of a sudden the
world looks quieter. Those who have worked to end the
violence*whether by diplomatic means, as in Kashmir,
Congo, Ethiopia and Eritrea, or by military intervention, as
in Kosovo and Sierra Leone*may feel encouraged. Blessed are the peace-m=
akers. Or are they? Confounded yes, saintly no, some
would say. The peace they bring is usually a false peace*a temporary af=
fair that reverts to violence when the
mediators turn away. In Congo, the fighting has never stopped, however =
many bits of paper may have been signed. It would be
little surprise if Ethiopia and Eritrea resumed their pointless war, an=
d even less if Sierra Leone slipped back into primordial conflict. No on=
e should imagine that Pakistan and India have settled
their long-running dispute over Kashmir; their next exchange could come=
at any time, and involve nuclear bombs.
As for Kosovo, the *peace* that NATO has secured there is still punctua=
ted by massacres*of Serbs now, not Albanians*and
even optimists admit that full-scale blood-letting will resume unless o=
utside troops keep the combatants apart, certainly for years, maybe for =
decades. These days, when few wars have the potential, if left unchecked=
, to lead to the sort of East-West clash that could
have destroyed the world, would it not be better to let the belligerent=
s fight to the finish, thus settling their dispute once and for all?
An eloquent case for this is made in the current issue of Foreign Affai=
rs by Edward Luttwak, of the Center for Strategic and
International Studies in Washington. Mr Luttwak takes no delight in war=
. On the contrary, his concern is to promote peace. But too often, he ar=
gues, peace-makers, by imposing ceasefires and other agreements (such as=
the Dayton accords for Bosnia), *artificially freeze
conflict and perpetuate a state of war indefinitely by shielding the we=
aker side from the consequences of refusing to make concessions for peac=
e.* America, he says, should oppose multilateral interventions
instead of leading them. And do-gooders, whether in UN agencies or in
unrelated non-governmental outfits, should stay away: by impeding the p=
rogress of the stronger side towards a decisive victory, they frustrate =
*the sole useful function* of wars*to bring peace*and turn escaping civi=
lians into lifelong refugees. Best to leave minor wars
to burn themselves out.
It is a beguiling argument, but wrong. The first problem is in recognis=
ing a minor war. A cross-strait argument between China and
Taiwan, that little local difficulty in Kashmir, a trifling incursion b=
y North Korea into South Korea*s waters*should all these be left to take=
their natural course? Perhaps these examples are unfair. So how about f=
ormer Yugoslavia? Perhaps, as Mr Luttwak seems to think, all its vile wa=
rs would indeed have ended by now had the combatants been left to fight =
to the finish, as Nigeria*s were in the Biafran war of
1967-70. Yet fully 1m people died in that war. Awful as the death toll =
has been in the Balkans in the 1990s, it has not reached even
120,000. Was Biafra*s decisive defeat really a better outcome?
Moreover, Nigeria*s civil war was not the only one where (most) outside=
rs sat on their hands. Foreigners have stayed well away
from Colombia*s continuing fratricide, whose origins can be traced back=
through la Violencia of 1948-58 (about 200,000 dead) to unmediated wars=
a century ago. In Rwanda in 1994, the world watched while the Hutu majo=
rity slaughtered some 700,000 Tutsis. But that
genocide did not end the killing*any more than Pol Pot*s ended it in Ca=
mbodia. And supposing it had, would the world really be a
better place? A fight to the finish may sometimes produce peace, but it=
will often be an unjust peace (and the first world war, the *war to end=
all wars*, showed what that can lead to). A just
intervention, by contrast, if it produces a less unfair outcome, may, j=
ust may, produce a lasting settlement. Bitter ends breed bitter starts S=
o does the future look bright for intervention?
As our survey argues, the post-communist, post-Kosovo world now taking
shape will not be an end-of-history sort of place in which all good
democrats can put their feet up. It will be a world of clashing interes=
ts and outrageous atrocities, in which democrats
will have to get involved not merely if they wish to
defend their interests, but also if they wish to sleep easy at night an=
d look themselves in the eye in the mirror come the morning. It is far f=
rom clear, though, that Kosovo has prepared the way
for more frequent western intervention. The Kosovo war was not fought f=
or conventional reasons of national interest, nor
yet was it quite the humanitarian venture that western leaders proclaim=
ed it to be. Rather it was a war they stumbled into by
miscalculation when their diplomacy failed; it then became not just a w=
ar to end Serb injustice, but also a war to preserve NATO*s credibility.=
Next time, it must
be hoped, the West will either be less free with its threats of force, =
or make sure it can live up to them. But, for a
while at least, an overstretched NATO will be in no position to underta=
ke more interventions of the Balkan kind.
That is a pity. Pace Mr Luttwak, the world will continue to need the bu=
sybodying of outsiders. Armed intervention by the West will
necessarily be rare*undertaken only when the case for it is strong, whe=
n the risks are limited (but God forbid that this should mean, as in Kos=
ovo, no risk of allied casualties), and when it can be
carried out successfully. Other, regional or UN,peacekeepers will often=
have to step in. And prevention will always be a better
option if it can be achieved. But the need for intervention, and for pe=
ace-making in general, will not go away. Better to
strive for a less violent world and fail, than to stand back and watch =
the killing continue.
LINKS
Edward Luttwak*s article, *Give War A
Chance*, is available from Foreign
Affairs. The Center for Strategic and
International Studies analyses
international security issues. The War, Peace and
Security server maintains a
database of contemporary conflicts. Details of
the current activities of the
United Nations and NATO can be found at their
sites.
---- End Included Message ----
LookSmart =85 or keep looking.
http://www.looksmart.com
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Date: Fri, 30 Jul 1999 12:20:03 PDT
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Subject: Fwd:In the name of the father, or should that be the mother?
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<a href=3D"/women/story/0,3604,69716,00.html">In the name of the fath=
er, or should that be the mother?</a><P>
=
=
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=
<FONT face=3D"arial,helvetica,sans-serif" size=3D5><B>In the name of =
the father, or should that be the mother?</FONT></B>
<BR> =
=
=
=
<BR>
<FONT face=3D"arial,helvetica,sans-serif" size=3D3>Six out of 10 wo=
men think giving a child his or her father's surname is sexist. One in th=
ree men are fuming about it. So, asks Stephanie Theobald, what's a modern=
couple to do when it comes to settling on a name for the little ones?</F=
ONT>
<BR>
<FONT face=3D"Geneva,Arial,sans-serif" size=3D2><BR>
=
=
=
<B>Friday July 30, 1999</B>
<BR> =
=
<BR>
=
In my mother's day it was easy: you picked up your letter and it had =
"Mrs Roy Bertram Theobald" written on the envelope. You didn't think: "Th=
is makes me sound like a drag queen." You didn't burst out laughing. If y=
ou thought about it at all, you'd think, "Oh, how polite," or, "Oh, it's =
properly addressed," and then you'd get on with laying the breakfast tabl=
e. <P>Today, women frown at you in confusion if you ask them if they are =
taking on their husband's first names, as well as his surname. They may t=
hen smile, but only out of civility. A woman changing her name in any way=
at all is seen as risqué in some circles. She might refer to hers=
elf as Mrs Theobald, but only to her friends, and only as a joke. <P>Thi=
s week's spirited outburst from the newlywed Mrs Victoria Beckham about t=
he joys of giving up her maiden name, Adams, and taking on her beloved's =
surname, was curiously shocking. "I feel much more famous now," she confi=
ded to the tabloids. "When I say I'm Victoria Beckham, a lot more people =
take notice and know who I am." <P>But Posh - as the Sun continues to ca=
ll her - has already made an even more telling decision. The couple's son=
, born out of wedlock, was of course named Brooklyn Beckham. According to=
figures released this week by Bella Magazine, Mrs Beckham is flying in t=
he face of modern thinking. A suitably unscientific poll of 500 men and w=
omen apparently revealed that 63% of the women would refuse to give their=
child its father's surname, while 25% were adamant they would give the c=
hild their own surname. <P>This appears to suggest that 38% of the wome=
n polled would use neither their own surname or the father's surname for =
their children. So what are they going to do? The answer is painfully sim=
ple: like so many modern couples, they're going to fudge it. <P>One fudg=
ing-it option is to dream up a new surname for your children. You can eve=
n be radical about it. Jackie Olive, 34, a housing officer, is the mother=
of two children by two different fathers. She decided that she didn't wa=
nt to call her two little girls either by her surname - which she had alw=
ays disliked - or the surnames of the children's fathers. <P>Following i=
n the footsteps of Courtney Love and Kurt Cobain (who gave their daughter=
, Frances, the surname Bean), Jackie, with the agreement of the respectiv=
e fathers, decided to give her daughters completely independent surnames.=
When her first daughter was born, Jackie registered her as Jaime Georgia=
Ruby Jazz. "Her father was a jazz fan," she says. "I've always thought t=
he obsession with surnames was mere vanity. I'm suspicious of people who =
have kids because they want their name and their genes to be carried on. =
You know the child is yours. A name is just incidental." <P>A few weeks =
later, Jackie decided that Jazz sounded ridiculously hippie as a surname,=
so she went back to the register office, paid £50 and changed Jaime=
's surname to Wild. Her second daughter is called Mathilda Wild. Jackie s=
ays it was an idea she had when she was active at Greenham Common - "at t=
hat time a lot of women were calling their kids Wild. It was a kind of sc=
rew the establishment thing. The idea was that if everyone was called the=
same name then the state couldn't keep tabs on you, they would never hav=
e your real identity." <P>The double-barrelled option, formerly the pres=
erve of the upper classes, is becoming increasingly common - 23% of famil=
ies now boast more than one surname. It tends to satisfy both parents, on=
ce they've finished rowing about which order their names should go in, bu=
t traditionalists are predictably horrified. <P>Charles Kidd, author of =
Debrett's Peerage and Baronetage, describes the trend as "tedious". He is=
particularly incensed by the "hyphen issue" and is irritated by couples =
such as Tom Cruise and Nicole Kidman, who have given their children, Isab=
ella and Connor, the surname Kidman Cruise. "If you are going to give you=
r child a double-barrelled name, at least you must hyphenate it or nobody=
knows if it is a first name or a surname," he says. <P>Splicing surname=
s to create a new name is becoming another popular option but such compro=
mises are rarely settled on without a battle. <P>Women have been given t=
heir husband's surname since the middle ages and it remains largely a pat=
riarchal phenomenon. In South America and Spain, a child is given two sur=
names - one from its mother and one from its father. But it's still the f=
ather's name which is passed on to the next generation. <P>British coupl=
es actually have it fairly easy, since they are free to call their childr=
en anything they like on the birth certificate. In France, children must =
take either the mother's surname or the father's, or, in exceptional circ=
umstances, both surnames. But that's it. You even have to make a special =
trip to the town hall to plead with notaries if you want to give your chi=
ld an unusual first name. There was a recent case of a disappointed paren=
t who'd wanted to call his son Tarzan. <P>The Bella survey suggests that=
British men would happily trade in their right to call their first daugh=
ter Batgirl in return for a guarantee that their surname will make its wa=
y down the generations. Only one in five men questioned said they would a=
gree to their child taking its mother's surname. A third of them said the=
y believed women were being selfish if they insisted on giving a child th=
eir own surname. <P>Susan Hastings, 33, a mature student from London, sa=
ys she never realised what a big deal it would be to give her baby son he=
r own surname instead of her male partner's. Her partner, Sam, was initia=
lly extremely unhappy about the idea, although he was loath to admit it. =
"My name's come down through my family for generations and that means som=
ething to me," he says. "I also can't help feeling slightly annoyed that =
my son's names don't reflect mine in any way, as if the mother is somehow=
more important nowadays." <P>The in-laws may also be less than delighte=
d. "My parents were pleased," Susan says, "but my partner's mother was a =
bit upset. She'd wanted our baby to have her maiden name, which at least =
was more of a matriarchal idea." <P>Susan now wishes she'd given her 10-=
month-old son a different, unrelated, surname, but thinks it's too late t=
o change it now. "When you think about it, the male root always gets thro=
ugh anyway," she says. "My name, Hastings, is from my father." <P>And, f=
inally, a cautionary tale for all those women caught up in the first flus=
h of love who decide to renounce their name for their husband's and then =
start breeding. Jane Hoskin, 36, lives in a tiny village in Scotland. Thr=
ee years ago she married a man, whom we'll call David Stevens. They had a=
child named Holly who took her father's surname. Then Jane discovered th=
at her husband was an alcoholic. He left them a year later. <P>"The bigg=
est disappointment in my life is that Holly bears the surname of that odi=
ous wanker," says Jane. "Because his name is on the birth certificate I c=
an't change it back to my name without his permission - and he won't give=
it. At school she had to be registered as Stevens. Sometimes it's embarr=
assing. This is such a small village. Everyone knows everyone. The name S=
tevens has a real stigma attached to it." <P>She now wants to kick herse=
lf for changing her name. "I think my original decision had something to =
do with the strange process you go through when you're pregnant," she say=
s. "You become more dependent on the male partner. I felt the need to be =
protected. Giving Holly his name seemed natural." =
</FONT><BR>
=
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Date: Fri, 30 Jul 1999 17:01:00 -0400
Reply-To: [log in to unmask]
Sender: The Gambia and related-issues mailing list
<[log in to unmask]>
From: "Habib Ghanim, Sr" <[log in to unmask]>
Organization: B & H, Inc.
Subject: [Fwd: Fw: Please Pass This Information Along To All Single
Muslims!]
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This sounds interesting although it is tooooooo late for me .
This is for all the Sambas to look for Jabbars and stop to "Yeketan"
Habib
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From: "Akmal M. Muhammad" <[log in to unmask]>
To: <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Fw: Please Pass This Information Along To All Single Muslims!
Date: Fri, 30 Jul 1999 04:08:35 -0400
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Date: Thursday, July 29, 1999 10:24 PM
Subject: Please Pass This Information Along To All Single Muslims!
>With Allah's Name, The Merciful Benefactor, The Merciful Redeemer
>
>Nikah '99
>For All Marriage Minded Muslims. Complete Half Your Deen.
>
>Saturday, October 16, 1999
>Best Western Hotel
>5910 Princess Garden Parkway
>Lanham, MD 20706
>
>Pre-Registration $35.00
>Continental Breakfast and Dinner Included!
>$45.00 after September 18, 1999
>
>Contact Alia Muhammad, [log in to unmask]
>
>ITINERARY
>
>WELCOME
>10:00 A.M.
>
>WORKSHOPS
>
>"The Good, The Bad, The Ugly, The Beautiful"
>Panelist will discuss married life.
>For Sisters Only. For Brothers Only.
>11:00 A.M. - 12:00 P.M.
>
>Pre-marital Considerations for Muslims
>Presenter: Imam Vernon Fareed of Masjid William Salaam, Norfolk, VA
>2:00 P.M. - 4:00 P.M.
>
>DINNER SOCIAL
>An Evening Social of Fun!
>Dress to Impress!
>8:00 P.M. - 11:00 P.M.
>
>Sponsored by the Muslim Young Adults of Masjid Muhammad,
>Washington, D.C.
--------------E896B07E718B6B8B40689EBF--
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Date: Fri, 30 Jul 1999 17:18:34 -0400
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<[log in to unmask]>
From: "Habib Ghanim, Sr" <[log in to unmask]>
Organization: B & H, Inc.
Subject: Re: Fwd:In the name of the father, or should that be the mother?
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Mr Njie
Muslim Women get to keep their names even if they are married . They do
not have to change it but the children are named after the father for
the obvious reason . The man is their dad and secondly for inheritance
(legal documents and for identification purposes0
Habib
momodou njie wrote:
>
>
>
> http://www.newsunlimited.co.uk/women/story/0,3604,69716,00.html
>
>
> ______________________________________________________
> Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
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> [Guardian Unlimited] [Image]
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[Home][Image][Breaking News][Image][Guardian Eye][Image][The Guardian]
[Image][The Observer][Image][Documentaries][Image][Columnists][Image][Talk]
[Image][Search]
> [Women] In the name of the
[bol.com] father, or should that be
the mother?
Six out of 10 women think
giving a child his or her
father's surname is
Search this sexist. One in three men
site are fuming about it. So,
asks Stephanie Theobald,
what's a modern couple to
do when it comes to
settling on a name for
the little ones?
Tools
Text-only Friday July 30, 1999
version [Image]
Send it In my mother's day it was
to a [Image] easy: you picked up your
friend letter and it had "Mrs
Read it Roy Bertram Theobald"
later [Image] written on the envelope.
See saved You didn't think: "This
stories [Image] makes me sound like a
drag queen." You didn't
burst out laughing. If
The you thought about it at
Guardian
all, you'd think, "Oh,
Front page[Image] how polite," or, "Oh,
Story it's properly addressed,"
index [Image] and then you'd get on
with laying the breakfast
In this section table.
In the name of
the father, or Today, women frown at you
should that be in confusion if you ask
the mother? them if they are taking
on their husband's first
The problem names, as well as his
surname. They may then
smile, but only out of
civility. A woman
changing her name in any
The way at all is seen as
Observer
Front page[Image] risqué in some circles.
Story She might refer to
index [Image] herself as Mrs Theobald,
but only to her friends,
[UP] and only as a joke.
This week's spirited
outburst from the
newlywed Mrs Victoria
Beckham about the joys of
giving up her maiden
name, Adams, and taking
on her beloved's surname,
was curiously shocking.
"I feel much more famous
now," she confided to the
tabloids. "When I say I'm
Victoria Beckham, a lot
more people take notice
and know who I am."
But Posh - as the Sun
continues to call her -
has already made an even
more telling decision.
The couple's son, born
out of wedlock, was of
course named Brooklyn
Beckham. According to
figures released this
week by Bella Magazine,
Mrs Beckham is flying in
the face of modern
thinking. A suitably
unscientific poll of 500
men and women apparently
revealed that 63% of the
women would refuse to
give their child its
father's surname, while
25% were adamant they
would give the child
their own surname.
This appears to suggest
that 38% of the women
polled would use neither
their own surname or the
father's surname for
their children. So what
are they going to do? The
answer is painfully
simple: like so many
modern couples, they're
going to fudge it.
One fudging-it option is
to dream up a new surname
for your children. You
can even be radical about
it. Jackie Olive, 34, a
housing officer, is the
mother of two children by
two different fathers.
She decided that she
didn't want to call her
two little girls either
by her surname - which
she had always disliked -
or the surnames of the
children's fathers.
Following in the
footsteps of Courtney
Love and Kurt Cobain (who
gave their daughter,
Frances, the surname
Bean), Jackie, with the
agreement of the
respective fathers,
decided to give her
daughters completely
independent surnames.
When her first daughter
was born, Jackie
registered her as Jaime
Georgia Ruby Jazz. "Her
father was a jazz fan,"
she says. "I've always
thought the obsession
with surnames was mere
vanity. I'm suspicious of
people who have kids
because they want their
name and their genes to
be carried on. You know
the child is yours. A
name is just
incidental."
A few weeks later, Jackie
decided that Jazz sounded
ridiculously hippie as a
surname, so she went back
to the register office,
paid £50 and changed
Jaime's surname to Wild.
Her second daughter is
called Mathilda Wild.
Jackie says it was an
idea she had when she was
active at Greenham Common
- "at that time a lot of
women were calling their
kids Wild. It was a kind
of screw the
establishment thing. The
idea was that if everyone
was called the same name
then the state couldn't
keep tabs on you, they
would never have your
real identity."
The double-barrelled
option, formerly the
preserve of the upper
classes, is becoming
increasingly common - 23%
of families now boast
more than one surname. It
tends to satisfy both
parents, once they've
finished rowing about
which order their names
should go in, but
traditionalists are
predictably horrified.
Charles Kidd, author of
Debrett's Peerage and
Baronetage, describes the
[Image] [Image]trend as "tedious". He is
particularly incensed by
the "hyphen issue" and is
irritated by couples such
as Tom Cruise and Nicole
Kidman, who have given
their children, Isabella
and Connor, the surname
Kidman Cruise. "If you
are going to give your
child a double-barrelled
name, at least you must
hyphenate it or nobody
knows if it is a first
name or a surname," he
says.
Splicing surnames to
create a new name is
becoming another popular
option but such
compromises are rarely
settled on without a
battle.
Women have been given
their husband's surname
since the middle ages and
it remains largely a
patriarchal phenomenon.
In South America and
Spain, a child is given
two surnames - one from
its mother and one from
its father. But it's
still the father's name
which is passed on to the
next generation.
British couples actually
have it fairly easy,
since they are free to
call their children
anything they like on the
birth certificate. In
France, children must
take either the mother's
surname or the father's,
or, in exceptional
circumstances, both
surnames. But that's it.
You even have to make a
special trip to the town
hall to plead with
notaries if you want to
give your child an
unusual first name. There
was a recent case of a
disappointed parent who'd
wanted to call his son
Tarzan.
The Bella survey suggests
that British men would
happily trade in their
right to call their first
daughter Batgirl in
return for a guarantee
that their surname will
make its way down the
generations. Only one in
five men questioned said
they would agree to their
child taking its mother's
surname. A third of them
said they believed women
were being selfish if
they insisted on giving a
child their own surname.
Susan Hastings, 33, a
mature student from
London, says she never
realised what a big deal
it would be to give her
baby son her own surname
instead of her male
partner's. Her partner,
Sam, was initially
extremely unhappy about
the idea, although he was
loath to admit it. "My
name's come down through
my family for generations
and that means something
to me," he says. "I also
can't help feeling
slightly annoyed that my
son's names don't reflect
mine in any way, as if
the mother is somehow
more important
nowadays."
The in-laws may also be
less than delighted. "My
parents were pleased,"
Susan says, "but my
partner's mother was a
bit upset. She'd wanted
our baby to have her
maiden name, which at
least was more of a
matriarchal idea."
Susan now wishes she'd
given her 10-month-old
son a different,
unrelated, surname, but
thinks it's too late to
change it now. "When you
think about it, the male
root always gets through
anyway," she says. "My
name, Hastings, is from
my father."
And, finally, a
cautionary tale for all
those women caught up in
the first flush of love
who decide to renounce
their name for their
husband's and then start
breeding. Jane Hoskin,
36, lives in a tiny
village in Scotland.
Three years ago she
married a man, whom we'll
call David Stevens. They
had a child named Holly
who took her father's
surname. Then Jane
discovered that her
husband was an alcoholic.
He left them a year
later.
"The biggest
disappointment in my life
is that Holly bears the
surname of that odious
wanker," says Jane.
"Because his name is on
the birth certificate I
can't change it back to
my name without his
permission - and he won't
give it. At school she
had to be registered as
Stevens. Sometimes it's
embarrassing. This is
such a small village.
Everyone knows everyone.
The name Stevens has a
real stigma attached to
it."
She now wants to kick
herself for changing her
name. "I think my
original decision had
something to do with the
strange process you go
through when you're
pregnant," she says. "You
become more dependent on
the male partner. I felt
the need to be protected.
Giving Holly his name
seemed natural."
[UP]
[Image][bol.com] [Kosovo] [Columnists] [Kosovo]
[Image]
[Image] Guardian Unlimited © Guardian Newspapers Limited 1999
[Image][Image] [Image] [Image] [Image]
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Mr Njie
<br>Muslim Women get to keep their names even if they are married . They
do not have to change it but the children are named after the father for
the obvious reason . The man is their dad and secondly for inheritance
(legal documents and for identification purposes0
<br>
<p>Habib
<p>momodou njie wrote:
<blockquote TYPE=CITE>
<pre WRAP>
<a href="http://www.newsunlimited.co.uk/women/story/0,3604,69716,00.html">http://www.newsunlimited.co.uk/women/story/0,3604,69716,00.html
</a>______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at <a href="http://www.hotmail.com">http://www.hotmail.com</a></pre>
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<td WIDTH="126" HEIGHT="18" BGCOLOR="#999999"><b><font face="Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif"><font color="#FFFFFF"><font size=+0>In
this section</font></font></font></b></td>
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<td COLSPAN="2" BGCOLOR="#FFFFFF"><!-- other headlines --><font face="Geneva,Arial,sans-serif"><font size=-2><a href="http://www.newsunlimited.co.uk/women/story/0,3604,69716,00.html">In
the name of the father, or should that be the mother?</a></font></font>
<p><font face="Geneva,Arial,sans-serif"><font size=-2> <a href="http://www.newsunlimited.co.uk/women/story/0,3604,69719,00.html">The
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<td><!-- Navbar: no scribbling --><!-- Vignette StoryServer 4 Fri Jul 30 09:47:31 1999 --><b><font face="arial,helvetica,sans-serif"><font size=+2>In
the name of the father, or should that be the mother?</font></font></b>
<p><font face="arial,helvetica,sans-serif"><font size=+0>Six out of 10
women think giving a child his or her father's surname is sexist. One in
three men are fuming about it. So, asks Stephanie Theobald, what's a modern
couple to do when it comes to settling on a name for the little ones?</font></font>
<p><b><font face="Geneva,Arial,sans-serif"><font size=-1>Friday July 30,
1999</font></font></b>
<p><font face="Geneva,Arial,sans-serif"><font size=-1>In my mother's day
it was easy: you picked up your letter and it had "Mrs Roy Bertram Theobald"
written on the envelope. You didn't think: "This makes me sound like a
drag queen." You didn't burst out laughing. If you thought about it at
all, you'd think, "Oh, how polite," or, "Oh, it's properly addressed,"
and then you'd get on with laying the breakfast table. </font></font>
<p><font face="Geneva,Arial,sans-serif"><font size=-1>Today, women frown
at you in confusion if you ask them if they are taking on their husband's
first names, as well as his surname. They may then smile, but only out
of civility. A woman changing her name in any way at all is seen as risqué
in some circles. She might refer to herself as Mrs Theobald, but only to
her friends, and only as a joke. </font></font>
<p><font face="Geneva,Arial,sans-serif"><font size=-1>This week's spirited
outburst from the newlywed Mrs Victoria Beckham about the joys of giving
up her maiden name, Adams, and taking on her beloved's surname, was curiously
shocking. "I feel much more famous now," she confided to the tabloids.
"When I say I'm Victoria Beckham, a lot more people take notice and know
who I am." </font></font>
<p><font face="Geneva,Arial,sans-serif"><font size=-1>But Posh - as the
Sun continues to call her - has already made an even more telling decision.
The couple's son, born out of wedlock, was of course named Brooklyn Beckham.
According to figures released this week by Bella Magazine, Mrs Beckham
is flying in the face of modern thinking. A suitably unscientific poll
of 500 men and women apparently revealed that 63% of the women would refuse
to give their child its father's surname, while 25% were adamant they would
give the child their own surname. </font></font>
<p><font face="Geneva,Arial,sans-serif"><font size=-1>This appears to suggest
that 38% of the women polled would use neither their own surname or the
father's surname for their children. So what are they going to do? The
answer is painfully simple: like so many modern couples, they're going
to fudge it. </font></font>
<p><font face="Geneva,Arial,sans-serif"><font size=-1>One fudging-it option
is to dream up a new surname for your children. You can even be radical
about it. Jackie Olive, 34, a housing officer, is the mother of two children
by two different fathers. She decided that she didn't want to call her
two little girls either by her surname - which she had always disliked
- or the surnames of the children's fathers. </font></font>
<p><font face="Geneva,Arial,sans-serif"><font size=-1>Following in the
footsteps of Courtney Love and Kurt Cobain (who gave their daughter, Frances,
the surname Bean), Jackie, with the agreement of the respective fathers,
decided to give her daughters completely independent surnames. When her
first daughter was born, Jackie registered her as Jaime Georgia Ruby Jazz.
"Her father was a jazz fan," she says. "I've always thought the obsession
with surnames was mere vanity. I'm suspicious of people who have kids because
they want their name and their genes to be carried on. You know the child
is yours. A name is just incidental." </font></font>
<p><font face="Geneva,Arial,sans-serif"><font size=-1>A few weeks later,
Jackie decided that Jazz sounded ridiculously hippie as a surname, so she
went back to the register office, paid £50 and changed Jaime's surname
to Wild. Her second daughter is called Mathilda Wild. Jackie says it was
an idea she had when she was active at Greenham Common - "at that time
a lot of women were calling their kids Wild. It was a kind of screw the
establishment thing. The idea was that if everyone was called the same
name then the state couldn't keep tabs on you, they would never have your
real identity." </font></font>
<p><font face="Geneva,Arial,sans-serif"><font size=-1>The double-barrelled
option, formerly the preserve of the upper classes, is becoming increasingly
common - 23% of families now boast more than one surname. It tends to satisfy
both parents, once they've finished rowing about which order their names
should go in, but traditionalists are predictably horrified. </font></font>
<p><font face="Geneva,Arial,sans-serif"><font size=-1>Charles Kidd, author
of Debrett's Peerage and Baronetage, describes the trend as "tedious".
He is particularly incensed by the "hyphen issue" and is irritated by couples
such as Tom Cruise and Nicole Kidman, who have given their children, Isabella
and Connor, the surname Kidman Cruise. "If you are going to give your child
a double-barrelled name, at least you must hyphenate it or nobody knows
if it is a first name or a surname," he says. </font></font>
<p><font face="Geneva,Arial,sans-serif"><font size=-1>Splicing surnames
to create a new name is becoming another popular option but such compromises
are rarely settled on without a battle. </font></font>
<p><font face="Geneva,Arial,sans-serif"><font size=-1>Women have been given
their husband's surname since the middle ages and it remains largely a
patriarchal phenomenon. In South America and Spain, a child is given two
surnames - one from its mother and one from its father. But it's still
the father's name which is passed on to the next generation. </font></font>
<p><font face="Geneva,Arial,sans-serif"><font size=-1>British couples actually
have it fairly easy, since they are free to call their children anything
they like on the birth certificate. In France, children must take either
the mother's surname or the father's, or, in exceptional circumstances,
both surnames. But that's it. You even have to make a special trip to the
town hall to plead with notaries if you want to give your child an unusual
first name. There was a recent case of a disappointed parent who'd wanted
to call his son Tarzan. </font></font>
<p><font face="Geneva,Arial,sans-serif"><font size=-1>The Bella survey
suggests that British men would happily trade in their right to call their
first daughter Batgirl in return for a guarantee that their surname will
make its way down the generations. Only one in five men questioned said
they would agree to their child taking its mother's surname. A third of
them said they believed women were being selfish if they insisted on giving
a child their own surname. </font></font>
<p><font face="Geneva,Arial,sans-serif"><font size=-1>Susan Hastings, 33,
a mature student from London, says she never realised what a big deal it
would be to give her baby son her own surname instead of her male partner's.
Her partner, Sam, was initially extremely unhappy about the idea, although
he was loath to admit it. "My name's come down through my family for generations
and that means something to me," he says. "I also can't help feeling slightly
annoyed that my son's names don't reflect mine in any way, as if the mother
is somehow more important nowadays." </font></font>
<p><font face="Geneva,Arial,sans-serif"><font size=-1>The in-laws may also
be less than delighted. "My parents were pleased," Susan says, "but my
partner's mother was a bit upset. She'd wanted our baby to have her maiden
name, which at least was more of a matriarchal idea." </font></font>
<p><font face="Geneva,Arial,sans-serif"><font size=-1>Susan now wishes
she'd given her 10-month-old son a different, unrelated, surname, but thinks
it's too late to change it now. "When you think about it, the male root
always gets through anyway," she says. "My name, Hastings, is from my father." </font></font>
<p><font face="Geneva,Arial,sans-serif"><font size=-1>And, finally, a cautionary
tale for all those women caught up in the first flush of love who decide
to renounce their name for their husband's and then start breeding. Jane
Hoskin, 36, lives in a tiny village in Scotland. Three years ago she married
a man, whom we'll call David Stevens. They had a child named Holly who
took her father's surname. Then Jane discovered that her husband was an
alcoholic. He left them a year later. </font></font>
<p><font face="Geneva,Arial,sans-serif"><font size=-1>"The biggest disappointment
in my life is that Holly bears the surname of that odious wanker," says
Jane. "Because his name is on the birth certificate I can't change it back
to my name without his permission - and he won't give it. At school she
had to be registered as Stevens. Sometimes it's embarrassing. This is such
a small village. Everyone knows everyone. The name Stevens has a real stigma
attached to it." </font></font>
<p><font face="Geneva,Arial,sans-serif"><font size=-1>She now wants to
kick herself for changing her name. "I think my original decision had something
to do with the strange process you go through when you're pregnant," she
says. "You become more dependent on the male partner. I felt the need to
be protected. Giving Holly his name seemed natural." </font></font>
<br><!-- Navbar: no scribbling --><!-- Interpolate: http://www.newsunlimited.co.uk/Com/Up_Button/0,2082,,00.html -->
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<br>
<br>
<p> </td>
</tr>
</table>
<!-- close guttering table--></td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td WIDTH="32" HEIGHT="1"><img SRC="cid:part17.37A216A8.13D194C2@erols.com" height=1 width=32></td>
<td VALIGN=TOP WIDTH="128"><!-- start / Block 4--><!-- Vignette StoryServer 4 Fri Jul 30 18:26:36 1999 --><a href="http://www.uk.bol.com/cec/cstage?ecaction=boldeeplink&template=bolhome_default.uk.htm&referrer=gpbaff001gdn009ron001"><img SRC="cid:part23.37A216A8.13D194C2@erols.com" ALT="bol.com" BORDER=0 height=64 width=128></a><!-- /end image ---></td>
<td VALIGN=TOP WIDTH="128"><!-- start / Block 5--><!-- Vignette StoryServer 4 Fri Jul 30 06:23:21 1999 --><!-- BEGIN Sell --><a href="http://www.newsunlimited.co.uk/Kosovo/0,2759,,00.html"><img SRC="cid:part24.37A216A8.13D194C2@erols.com" ALT="Kosovo" BORDER=0 height=64 width=128></a><!-- END Sell --></td>
<td VALIGN=TOP WIDTH="128"><!-- start / Block 6--><!-- Vignette StoryServer 4 Fri Jul 30 18:26:35 1999 --><a href="http://www.newsunlimited.co.uk/Columnists/0,2448,15144,00.html"><img SRC="cid:part25.37A216A8.13D194C2@erols.com" ALT="Columnists" BORDER=0 height=64 width=128></a><!-- /end image ---></td>
<td VALIGN=TOP WIDTH="128"><!-- start / Block 7--><!-- Vignette StoryServer 4 Fri Jul 30 06:24:19 1999 --><!-- BEGIN Sell --><a href="http://www.newsunlimited.co.uk/Kosovo/0,2759,,00.html"><img SRC="cid:part26.37A216A8.13D194C2@erols.com" ALT="Kosovo" BORDER=0 height=64 width=128></a><!-- END Sell --></td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td WIDTH="32" HEIGHT="1"><img SRC="cid:part17.37A216A8.13D194C2@erols.com" height=1 width=32></td>
<td VALIGN=TOP COLSPAN="4" WIDTH="512"><!-- start / Block 8--><!-- Generic Text Widget: no scribbling --></td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td WIDTH="32" HEIGHT="1"><a href="http://www.guardianunlimited.co.uk/credits.html"><img SRC="cid:part22.37A216A8.13D194C2@erols.com" BORDER=0 height=1 width=32></a></td>
<td VALIGN=TOP COLSPAN="4" WIDTH="512">
<center><font face="Geneva,Arial,sans-serif"><font size=-2>Guardian Unlimited
© Guardian Newspapers Limited 1999</font></font></center>
</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td WIDTH="32" HEIGHT="1"><a href="http://www.guardianunlimited.co.uk/credits.html"><img SRC="cid:part22.37A216A8.13D194C2@erols.com" BORDER=0 height=1 width=32></a></td>
<td WIDTH="128" HEIGHT="1"><img SRC="cid:part27.37A216A8.13D194C2@erols.com" height=1 width=128></td>
<td WIDTH="128" HEIGHT="1"><img SRC="cid:part27.37A216A8.13D194C2@erols.com" height=1 width=128></td>
<td WIDTH="128" HEIGHT="1"><img SRC="cid:part27.37A216A8.13D194C2@erols.com" height=1 width=128></td>
<td WIDTH="128" HEIGHT="1"><img SRC="cid:part27.37A216A8.13D194C2@erols.com" height=1 width=128></td>
</tr>
</table></center>
</blockquote>
</body>
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Date: Fri, 30 Jul 1999 22:23:27 EDT
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From: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: GIVE WAR A CHANCE?
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Mr Jarju,
thanks for forwarding this article. I thoroughly enjoyed
reading it and came out with a reinforced believe that wars no matter their
scope and geography should concern us all as human beings and intervening at
a multilateral level to stop a vicious spiral is the right thing to do. I
don't find the argument that letting combatants fight to the extent of their
strengths persuasive because wars unlike other aspects of society is not
always lucid. what for example would constitude defeat? The world is replete
with cases in which militarily more powerful combatants find themselves
bogged down in intractible wars for years despite their strong desire to
vanquish the enemy.
Karamba
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Date: Fri, 30 Jul 1999 23:23:40 EDT
Reply-To: The Gambia and related-issues mailing list
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From: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Fwd: A demo on Complete Salat
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FYI
Good resource. Has transliteration of many suras.
Jabou Joh
Acknowledgement : Momin-net/Dr. Monzur Ahmed and Jeddah-net
Here is an easy way to down load CyberSalat programme package :
Download the 3 files,
use the following URLs:
http://www.ummah.org.uk/software/cyber/cyber1.zip
http://www.ummah.org.uk/software/cyber/cyber2.zip
http://www.ummah.org.uk/software/cyber/cyber3.zip
Unzip all three files into *same* directory; then run salat10.exe.
If it asks for a password, type aadam (lower case).
Wasalaam.
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Date: Sat, 31 Jul 1999 10:39:29 PDT
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From: momodou njie <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Fwd:In the name of the father, or should that be the mother?
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Hi Everyone,
I take Habib's point about Muslim women not changing their surnames after
marriage, although some, probably under the influence of other cultures, do.
I was not thinking about religion when I posted the article - I just found
it a bit funny.But this is not to suggest that the subject is not important.
I have been for quite a while interested in it myself, and that may explain
my feeling. I know, however, that there are many Muslims in The Gambia who
are identified by their mothers, instead of fathers. That is why we have
such names as Modou Kumba,Katim Lolly, Ebou Sohna and so on. This way of
naming people my not conform with practices that obtain in the Gulf states
or elsewhere in the Muslim world, but these people are still Muslims. Here
again we need to distinguish between what is Islam and what is Gambian /
African culture. Let us remember that many societies in African were
actually matrilineal before the advent of Christianity and Islam, and
elements of this past can still be found in the way we do certain things.
Cheers.
Momodou
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Date: Sat, 31 Jul 1999 13:45:26 -0400
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From: Serign Cham <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Fwd:In the name of the father, or should that be the mother?
In-Reply-To: <[log in to unmask]>
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Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="==========1420836009=========="
--==========1420836009==========
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Hi Michelle,
Sorry I could not make it today. Please review my outline again. I have
made the suggested changes.
Thanks,
Serign.
--On Saturday, July 31, 1999, 10:39 AM +0000 momodou njie
<[log in to unmask]> wrote:
> Hi Everyone,
>
> I take Habib's point about Muslim women not changing their surnames after
> marriage, although some, probably under the influence of other cultures,
> do. I was not thinking about religion when I posted the article - I just
> found it a bit funny.But this is not to suggest that the subject is not
> important. I have been for quite a while interested in it myself, and
> that may explain my feeling. I know, however, that there are many Muslims
> in The Gambia who are identified by their mothers, instead of fathers.
> That is why we have such names as Modou Kumba,Katim Lolly, Ebou Sohna and
> so on. This way of naming people my not conform with practices that
> obtain in the Gulf states or elsewhere in the Muslim world, but these
> people are still Muslims. Here again we need to distinguish between what
> is Islam and what is Gambian / African culture. Let us remember that many
> societies in African were actually matrilineal before the advent of
> Christianity and Islam, and elements of this past can still be found in
> the way we do certain things. Cheers.
>
> Momodou
>
>
> ______________________________________________________
> Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
> ---
>
> To unsubscribe/subscribe or view archives of postings, go to the Gambia-L
> Web interface at: http://maelstrom.stjohns.edu/archives/gambia-l.html
>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
> ---
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Date: Sat, 31 Jul 1999 16:06:35 -0700
Reply-To: The Gambia and related-issues mailing list
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: The Gambia and related-issues mailing list
<[log in to unmask]>
From: Ylva Hernlund <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Africa: Economy Updates (fwd)
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Sat, 31 Jul 1999 10:45:55 -0500
From: [log in to unmask]
Reply-To: [log in to unmask]
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Africa: Economy Updates
Africa: Economy Updates
Date distributed (ymd): 990731
Document reposted by APIC
+++++++++++++++++++++Document Profile+++++++++++++++++++++
Region: Continent-Wide
Issue Areas: +economy/development+
Summary Contents:
This posting contains three recent press releases noting
initiatives by African countries to form common positions for
present and future international discussions on trade,
investment and debt, including the December 1999 Seattle
conference of the World Trade Organization, the tenth session
of the UN Conference on Trade and Development (UNCTAD) in
Bangkok in February 2000, and the current World Bank/IMF
review of the Heavily Indebted Poor Countries Initiative
(HIPC). A parallel posting today contains updates on recent
U.S. economic initiatives related to Africa.
Additional links and background on these issues can be found
at:
http://www.africapolicy.org/docs99/econ.shtml
http://www.africapolicy.org/docs99/tr9902a.htm
http://www.africapolicy.org/docs99/tr9902b.htm
+++++++++++++++++end profile++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
VACATION NOTICE
The Africa Policy Electronic Distribution List will be taking
a three-week break, in order to allow for staff vacation and
organizational housekeeping. In the meantime, we would like
to remind those who have not recently visited our web site
that the site contains a wealth of organized links to other
sources of current information, including
* a new action page on Africa's Health
http://www.africapolicy.org/action/health.htm
* topical links on economy (see above), democracy and human
rights (http://www.africapolicy.org/docs99/pol.shtml), peace
and security (http://www.africapolicy.org/docs99/peace.shmtl),
and education and culture
(http://www.africapolicy.org/featdocs/educ.htm).
* convenient country-specific links to daily news from Africa
News On-Line, BBC, the UN's Integrated Regional Information
Network (IRIN) and others:
http://www.africapolicy.org/featdocs/centnews.htm
http://www.africapolicy.org/featdocs/eastnews.htm
http://www.africapolicy.org/featdocs/northnws.htm
http://www.africapolicy.org/featdocs/southnws.htm
http://www.africapolicy.org/featdocs/westnews.htm
**********************************************************
Economic Commission for Africa Press Releases on Africa,
Upcoming Trade Talks, and the HIPC Debt Initiative
Please visit the ECA web site at http://www.un.org/depts/eca
for relevant documents and further information on these
meeting, or contact:
The Communication Team
Cabinet Office of the Executive Secretary
Economic Commission for Africa
United Nations
P.O. Box 3001, Addis Ababa
Ethiopia
Tel: +251-1-51 58 26; Fax: +251-1-51 03 65
E-mail: [log in to unmask]
ECA Press Release No. 80/1999
For Immediate Release
African negotiators meet in Addis Ababa to prepare for Seattle
and UNCTAD X
Addis Ababa, 21 July 1999 (ECA) - Geneva-based African
negotiators, representatives of regional economic communities,
and experts from relevant UN agencies kicked off a three-day
meeting here today to help prepare African countries for the
latest rounds of important global trade forums.
The meeting -- organized by the Economic Commission for Africa
(ECA) in collaboration with the Organization of African Unity
(OAU), UN Conference on Trade and Development (UNCTAD) and the
World Trade Organization (WTO) -- is in anticipation of the
upcoming Third WTO Ministerial Conference to be held from 30
November to 3 December 1999 in Seattle, USA, as well as the
Tenth Session of UNCTAD scheduled for 12 to 20 February 2000
in Bangkok, Thailand.
Opening the meeting at ECA today, Ms. Lalla Ben Barka, Deputy
Executive Secretary, noted that one of the fundamental
challenges facing Africa as the new millennium loomed was
"adapting to the momentum of globalization and liberalization
of global trading markets in goods and services, within the
framework of the rule-based multilateral trading system, and
the implacable process of liberalization of financial
markets."
Globalization and liberalization of the world economy, said
Ms. Ben Barka, had indeed created opportunities for economies
that were well-prepared or had sufficiently adjusted to the
challenges and exploited the expansion in world output and
trade. That said, "Africa has been among the regions that
have not fared well, as reflected in the decline in its share
of world trade which stands now at only 2 percent".
Among other issues, the meeting aims at:
* Elaborating specific proposals reflecting African concerns
vis-a-vis the multilateral trading system that are to be
submitted to the General Council of the WTO before the end of
July 1999;
* Looking at the parallel African Caribbean Pacific - European
Union (ACP-EU) negotiations and proposing appropriate African
strategies towards securing a waiver at the WTO for the trade
arrangements in the successor agreement to the Lome IV
Convention; and
* Addressing the main issues of concern to African countries
in regard to UNCTAD X, including deliberations on the text of
a draft "African Ministerial Declaration on UNCTAD X".
Experts say that for the Seattle WTO Ministerial Conference
and the negotiations in the new millennium to work in Africa's
favour, they need to focus on a number of key issues,
including:
* The need to structure a development dimension to WTO
Agreements and the agenda of the multilateral trading system;
* Lifting supply constraints in African countries, especially
least-developed countries;
* Addressing the problems of African countries in meeting the
continual evolving quality and technical standards for
exported goods;
* Advocating for further negotiations on tariff peaks and
escalation, as well as for flexibility on tariffs for those
LDCs that may require such flexibility; and
* Examining the implications of further negotiations of trade
in services, including air transport, maritime services,
telecommunications, financial services, and addressing
limitations to most-favoured-nation exemptions.
Participants at the meeting expect the positions they evolve
this week to be taken up by African policy makers at the
forthcoming Conference of African Ministers of Trade being
organized by the OAU with UNCTAD and ECA in Algiers, Algeria
from 6 to 9 September this year.
(END)
----------------------------------------------------------
ECA Press Release No. 81/1999
For Immediate Release
Seattle, UNCTAD X should reflect "genuine commitment" to
Africa's growth
Addis Ababa, 23 July 1999 (ECA) - A three-day meeting convened
to formulate common African positions on key global trade
issues ended here today with a call for developed countries to
ensure that Africa received a fair and balanced deal between
rights and obligations within the World Trade Organization
(WTO) regime.
The meeting also underscored the need for UNCTAD, along with
other regional organisations, to assist African countries
formulate national policies consistent with their individual
development realities.
It also stressed the need for UNCTAD X to be an occasion for
the launching of a new initiative that would bring about
greater coherence between UNCTAD and the Bretton Woods
institutions in translating policy ideas into practical
programmes at the country level.
The meeting was organized by the Economic Commission for
Africa (ECA) in collaboration with the Organization of African
Unity (OAU), UN Conference on Trade and Development (UNCTAD)
and the WTO, in anticipation of the upcoming Third WTO
Ministerial Conference to be held from 30 November to 3
December 1999 in Seattle, USA, as well as the Tenth Session of
UNCTAD scheduled for 12 to 20 February 2000 in Bangkok,
Thailand.
According to a draft report prepared by the African Group
(UNCTAD) in Geneva, entitled, ' Africa's Development
Challenges and Actions Required in the Context of UNCTAD X and
Beyond', critical sectors of the continent's economy exhibit
poor performance, while "Africa's continuing marginalisation
is increasingly defined by the continent's very low absolute
level of exports and decreasing share in world trade during
the past four decades".
The paper called for UNCTAD X to set the stage for a genuine
international commitment to Africa's growth and sustainable
development in the new millenium, with the conference taking
urgent action to strengthen the countries' capacity for
sustainable growth and development.
According to a statement read on behalf of the Chair of the
African Group in Geneva, Ambassador George Sipho Nene of South
Africa: "It is clear that without a substantial reduction in
the level of external debt, the marginalization of Africa will
continue. [...]. During UNCTAD X, an attempt should be made to
mobilise support to widen the HIPC initiative to include more
countries while criteria to define debt sustainability should
be recast to not only focus on the export and fiscal ratios,
but also take into consideration development indicators."
The meeting recommended that:
* Progress achieved in improving WTO transparency should be
achieved through a broader policy of document de-restriction
and informal means for dialogue with civil society;
* Further measures to enhance transparency of WTO operations
should be looked into;
* The imperative of the forthcoming mulilateral trade
negotiations not diverting attention from the need for a
streamlined and accelerated accession process, particularly
for LDCs;
* The automatic granting of special and differential treatment
provisions to acceding developing countries as stipulated in
the respective WTO agreements;
* That acceding developing countries should not be pressured
to join Plurilateral Trade Agreements or accept optional
sectoral market access initiatives;
(END)
----------------------------------------------------------
ECA Press Release No. 83/1999
DEBT RELIEF MUST FOCUS ON POVERTY REDUCTION, INSTITUTIONAL
REFORM AND TRANSPARENCY
African stakeholders reach consensus on key areas for
reforming the Highly Indebted Poor Countries (HIPC) Initiative
Addis Ababa, 23 July 1999 (ECA) -- "Broader, deeper, faster
debt relief will only be effective if funds released from debt
servicing actually reach the poor. " This was the firm
consensus of a high-level meeting of African governments,
bilateral and multilateral creditors, United Nations agencies,
and leading non-governmental organizations from industrial and
developing countries gathering at the United Nations Economic
Commission for Africa (ECA) in Addis Ababa.
The meeting, organized in cooperation with the World Bank and
International Monetary Fund, took place from 29 to 30 July.
"This is the very first time that all stakeholders have been
represented around one table. Here in Addis Ababa we have a
unique opportunity to really help the poor, not just by
agreeing on more effective use of debt relief, but by
beginning an ongoing dialogue which can lead to the common
development of economic and social policies to lift millions
out of poverty," said ECA Executive Secretary K.Y. Amoako.
The two-day meeting was part of a comprehensive review of the
Heavily Indebted Poor Countries (HIPC) Initiative, an
international debt relief programme administered by the
International Monetary Fund (IMF) and World Bank. The
Initiative, established in 1996, is designed to significantly
reduce the external debt of some 40 of the world's poorest,
most heavily indebted countries. So far four countries have
completed the HIPC process (including Uganda and Mozambique),
receiving about $5.5 billion in debt service relief, and six
more countries have received preliminary commitment of debt
relief totalling another $3.4 billion.
While the Initiative has marked a significant step forward,
civil society around the world has called for the programme to
be strengthened. Toward that end, the boards of the Bank and
IMF in September called for a comprehensive review of the
programme, with full participation of all stakeholders. In
June, the G-7 proposed a major expansion of the programme,
which would both increase and speed up the amount of debt
relief delivered to poor countries. This week's meeting in
Addis, which set out specific ideas on linking debt relief to
poverty reduction, is a direct result of this global
discussion.
Representatives reached broad consensus on the following
points:
* Debt relief must be firmly linked to a broader approach to
long-term poverty reduction and economic growth. Strategically
targeted debt relief must be an integral component of a
country's poverty reduction policy strategy, not an end in
itself.
* Establishing an effective, transparent linkage will be a
complex and long term challenge, requiring development and
implementation of a wide range of social, economic, financial
and political reforms. Specific areas include improved budget
management; development of a medium term expenditure
framework; poverty-focused public spending priorities, with a
clear view toward achieving the 2015 international poverty
targets.
* To be successful, such reforms must be pursued with the
broadest participation of civil society, including NGOs,
community groups, the media and the private sector. Emphasis
should be placed on improving parliamentary processes,
strengthening the role of the media and local groups in
monitoring implementation and the outcomes of policies, and
drawing clear lines of accountability.
* Creditors, particularly the international financial
institutions, must avoid excessive conditionality.
Performance criteria should reflect a balance between sound
macroeconomic policies and structural reform joined with
social and institutional strengthening, working together to
reduce poverty. Donors should seek to coordinate their
assistance in the context of poverty reduction action plans.
* Governments and International Organizations can learn much
from the success and failure of other country experiences.
Many countries have developed programmes designed to channel
debt relief directly into poverty reduction programmes
integrated within the budget, often in the education and
health sectors. Many representatives suggested that the
success of these programmes could be complemented by
programmes that direct funds to employment-generating
initiatives such as micro-credit programmes and private sector
development.
* Participants welcomed the frank and informative dialogue,
and hoped it could be continued.
Discussions will continue throughout the summer, leading to
September's Annual Meetings of the World Bank and IMF, with a
view toward reaching an agreement on an expanded framework. It
is expected that by this time ministers will endorse an
enhanced HIPC framework that could provide significantly more
debt relief at an earlier stage. Moreover, specific attention
will be given to placing debt relief within a context of
overall poverty reduction and economic and social development.
For detailed background on the HIPC initiative, please visit
the following web sites:
http://www.worldbank.org/html/extdr/hipc/
http://www.imf.org/external/np/hipc/hipc.htm
Or contact:
Anthony Gaeta External Affairs Department
E-mail: [log in to unmask]
Gita Bhatt External Relations Department
E-mail: [log in to unmask]
The ECA web site also contains extensive data on HIPC,
particularly as related to the push by African countries for
a more inclusive initiative. It can be found at:
http://www.un.org/Depts/eca
************************************************************
This material is being reposted for wider distribution by the
Africa Policy Information Center (APIC). APIC's primary
objective is to widen the policy debate in the United States
around African issues and the U.S. role in Africa, by
concentrating on providing accessible policy-relevant
information and analysis usable by a wide range of groups and
individuals.
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To be added to or dropped from the distribution list write to
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