Yaya, I give up! Good luck. Saul >From: yeks drame <[log in to unmask]> >Reply-To: The Gambia and related-issues mailing list ><[log in to unmask]> >To: [log in to unmask] >Subject: Re: Reply to Saul on Alpha's Proposals for Gambia-L >Date: Tue, 30 Nov 1999 00:57:07 PST > >Saul, > >If you realy mean what you are saying, why beating the bush then? You >rigthly confirmed that your friends where within all these so called >"Tribal" groupings. > >Certainly, am not trying to impress anyone! and am telling you that, am not >defending Robinson as a person! am talking about his proposal. You see, >maybe you dont know the brother, and I guess that is the reason for all >this >noise, but I find it strange you talking about me like the way you did, you >possibly know me? and if you do you may know aswell that I am not the type >who tries to impress people! about what?? > >Well, lets not get imotional. I guess this is nothing personal but a >gathering of ideas and thoughts. I am not here to tell you who is Alpha and >my knowledge about him. I will not be doing favour to the panell for doing >so! however, the impression I got in his piece will be substantial to >elaborate on. > >The brother was concern with the unfortunate ample supply of problems in >the >Gambia, and atleast came out with some humble ideas about how to solve >them. >We are certain that the problems will not disapear magically by themselves, >they most be solved, or atleast managed! what proposals do you have for >that? One thing I know is that, in order to solve these problems we will >not put faith in ethnicsm, nor to someone with his/her panaceas, this we >shall consider to be naive and irresponsible. Large scale( meaning >collectively) ,concerted efforts by determined people should be the work >force of this agenda.You believe it or not, your idea and believe cannot >suscribe to such! > >Therefore, Saul! If you are willing or about teach us about our origins, >and >what we should know, I would be with the opinion that you first develop a >process of awareness of the nature and gravity of the challenges in the >Gambia, the complex situation and if there is any solution to it! that is >what I expect to hear from you not about me personaly or Robinson! that is >nonesense! > >I think any genuine person, will understand that the process of development >should avoid the festering of such backward ideas of yours,"Tribal" issues! >The proposals Alpha raised came at a time when the expectation became >demand >on the economic and political machinery that are inevitably unmet, giving >rise to frustration and outrage.What examples did you learned from this? >experienced! otherwise from other nations who had been in the same >situation? What do policy makers do in such situations? To some extend we >can take refuge to history! I thought we should have therefore, enhance >peaceful and well defined manners with the mind of nation building. That >was >the essence of that wounderful piece of Alpha! The problem is there, and we >shall not try to avoid grappling with those problems we already admit!We >should not either, exihibit a childlike faith that a divine intervention >will solve them. What am saying is that, we could have by now been >discussing other productive questions than this. Well, that seems not to be >the case here, as we are permitted to engage in happier pursuits for the >sake of writing! > >Anyway, Saul I am certain that there is a common goal, and without doubt we >are all suscribing to a better Gambia, and the appropriation of the forces >to build that is nothing more than the development of ideas corresponding >to >individual way of annalysing. In order to achieve state objectives, I am >well aware that we can deffer in policies and believe me there is nothing >personal with that, you are entittle to your opinion.But we shall most >candidly and deffinately not tollarate the idea of "Tribalism". We are >concern with the development of the Gambia, which I believe should >strongly be policies based on collectivism including all at large! In this >regard,I believe that it is our duty to be betttressed by our obligations, >to drive us to try the most prudent action possible, and that is what this >panel I supossed is asking about! What do you have in the closset to offer? > >Saul, please dont be emotional, its the GL that put us together which I >thought is a great thing. That we can even discuss something of this >nature, >that is great! Just be reasonable and dont attack on the person, evaluate >on >the topic. I dont know you so I guess I cant say anything about you and >even >if I do, it would not be on the GL. It is not a personal corresponding >pannel! > >Peace brother Saul. >Yahya > > > > > >>From: saul khan <[log in to unmask]> >>Reply-To: The Gambia and related-issues mailing list >><[log in to unmask]> >>To: [log in to unmask] >>Subject: Re: Reply to Yaya Drammeh on Alpha's Proposals for Gambia-L >>Date: Mon, 29 Nov 1999 20:03:30 GMT >> >>Yaya, >> >>I don't know what's getting into you, but you're holding unto the wrong >>vine! We (yourself and I) grew up in one of the most culturally eclectic >>communities in the Gambia: SereKunda/Tallinding/LatriKunda. Mandingo, >>Jola, >>Wollof, Serere, Manjago, Karoninka ... name it, it was there. If others >>don't know this, Yaya, you do. We have mutual friends from virtually every >>"tribe" in the Gambia. Remember my close friends: Dam Jeng, Sidia Badji, >>Sheriff Newlands, Pa Leese Mendy, and the Jallow-Jallows? So I find it >>funny >>that you're trying to paint me as a narrow-minded tribalist. Who are you >>trying to impress? What are you trying to prove? >> >>What is even more ironical is that, you're defending Alpha Robinson, your >>knowledge of whom does not extend anywhere beyond his public persona. What >>do you know about Alpha other than the fact that he was supposed to be the >>firebrand Head Boy of GHS who caused a raucous at that school in the >>mid-80s? Or the equally controversial fracas he was involved in in China >>in >>'89. In some books, that qualifies Alpha as a progressive. Maybe he is. I >>don't know anything about him beyond that. I have no ill will against the >>guy. I, in fact subscribe to many of his proposals, and I've said this in >>my >>original piece. But I do have a problem with the ethnic issue he raised. >>I've challenged him to tell me who these "ethnic" campaigners are, and if >>I'm wrong, I'll apologize. Alpha denied he is referring to Darbo and UDP, >>but Basiru Ndow who first jumped to his defense, is honest enough to admit >>that Darbo is in fact the politician Alpha is referring to just -as I knew >>he was. Who's lying here? Anyone with a modicum of intelligence can see >>who >>the target of his "ethnic" campaigning is. Like I told Alpha originally, >>there's this ethnic nonsense going on, on all sides. Why insinuate that >>it's >>one-sided? I've said, let's expose anyone individual guilty of this >>divisiveness, and condemn him/her. What's tribalist about that? >> >>A tribe-less society in Gambia is an ideal that we have to work towards. >>We >>are not there yet. And not to be the devil's advocate, but I don't see us >>getting there in our lifetime. We're doing better than our parents, and I >>hope our children will fare better. But you cannot solve your problem by >>pushing it under the rug. We have a tribal problem in the Gambia. And it's >>not only the politicians that are guilty. It's any of us who perpetuate >>stereotypes of one ethnic group or another, or laughs at jokes that >>ridicule >>one group or another, or denies someone scholarship b/c of their >>ethnicity. >>These are still the reality in the Gambia. I did not create this. To >>pretend that it's not there would not solve it. We all need to come to >>terms >>w/ this, put everything on the table, discuss it, see where everyone is >>coming from, and heal our nation. Just like this society (US) is trying to >>do. Otherwise, we can play dumb/naïve all we want, when the dust settles, >>the problem will still be here. On both this forum and Gambianews.com, >>there >>are occasional stories of how serious tribalism now is in the Gambia. And >>from what I gather, it's not coming from the angle Alpha seems to suggest. >> >>The fact that I dare discuss this so-called sensitive (some may say >>explosive) issue should tell you s'thing about me. I just don't have >>anything to hide or prove! Let's all summon our courage and face this >>tribal >>issue. It won't go away by all of us sticking our heads up in the clouds >>like you're doing Yaya. And, Yaya, you're not sophisticated only b/c you >>don't know what "tribalism" is. Just visit the Gambia now, and no one will >>need to remind you. Look at the changes going on in the army, the police, >>and the overall civil service. If you can't see the obvious, god help you. >>In any case, it's not fair for me to put more on your plate than you can >>chew. If you can't comprehend, what I've been saying about this issue, >>good >>luck. But, just to set the record straight, I did not start this "ethnic" >>talk. Alpha did. If he were honest enough to mention the people he's >>referring to originally, we would have put this to rest a long time ago. >> >>Peace. >> >>Saul >> >>PS >>If for some weird reason, this is your way of proving loyalty to Alpha, >>you >>can call me a Backward Tribalist. I don't mind. I've never been bothered >>by >>lies. You know that Yaya! >> >>Saul >> >> >>>From: yeks drame <[log in to unmask]> >>>Reply-To: The Gambia and related-issues mailing list >>><[log in to unmask]> >>>To: [log in to unmask] >>>Subject: Re: Reply to Yaya Drammeh on Alpha's Proposals for Gambia-L >>>Date: Mon, 29 Nov 1999 08:05:07 PST >>> >>>Saul, >>>I mean, why are you taking such a stance. Its unproductive! very >>>backward, >>>and can even be considered irresponsible! for that matter. >>>Off course, I did read your piece, and it doesn't sound positive. >>> >>>I think you need to use your mind better! No body is going to be out here >>>to >>>entertain such ideas! Robinson's piece was very educative and smart. A >>>better Gambia, is the agenda Saul, in case you missed the point! >>>Do you consider the out come of such ideas as "Tribalism"? what effects >>>do >>>they have? Why are you puting energy on"Tribal" diversity? >>> >>>I have been reading some of your wounderful pieces, and thought you were >>>more smart than this. Take a little research on that word "Tribe" and see >>>if >>>it even fit our society! It has more wider meanings and effects than you >>>may >>>think. We shall not entertain that Saul! be careful! its realy backwarded >>>and unproductive. >>> >>>I think, if you dont have anything to add, or argue constructively,please >>>give chance to others who can come up better ideas concerning the >>>progress >>>and prosperity of our people. We are not out here just for a matter of >>>challeging others.We are here to discuss ideas.Further more I will >>>consider >>>this a waste of time and energy for you, because the average Gambian is >>>very >>>well aware of the effects of this so called "tribal" issue." so please >>>"lagg >>>av nu" >>> >>>No hard feelings brother, "tribal" issues doesn't suit us! we are one. >>> >>>Yahya >>> >>> >>> >>> >>>>From: saul khan <[log in to unmask]> >>>>Reply-To: The Gambia and related-issues mailing list >>>><[log in to unmask]> >>>>To: [log in to unmask] >>>>Subject: Reply to Yaya Drammeh on Alpha's Proposals for Gambia-L >>>>Date: Mon, 29 Nov 1999 13:14:31 GMT >>>> >>>>Yaya, Yaya, Yaya... >>>> >>>>Some things just don't change. Do they? Read my piece and read Alpha's >>>>again, and ask yourself who the real tribalist is. Like they say around >>>>here, "the mind is a terrible thing to waste." Use your mind Yaya! >>>> >>>>Saul. >>>> >>>> >>>>>From: yeks drame <[log in to unmask]> >>>>>Reply-To: The Gambia and related-issues mailing list >>>>><[log in to unmask]> >>>>>To: [log in to unmask] >>>>>Subject: Re: Reply to Basiru Ndow:Alpha's Proposals for Gambia-L] >>>>>Date: Mon, 29 Nov 1999 03:42:32 PST >>>>> >>>>>What are U up to Saul? >>>>>I am disapointed with those ideas of "tribal defendance" >>>>>Alpha's proposals were not "tribal" nor were they so bad as you may >>>>>have >>>>>thought.If he sound wrong in his proposals, may be you have a better >>>>>idea. >>>>>We will certainly love to hear that one too! >>>>> >>>>>Any way, I am certain that Robinson, is a reasonable and responsible >>>>>person >>>>>who can clarify his agenda better than I may do.However, we sould not >>>>>be >>>>>out >>>>>here to entertain such backward ideas as "tribalism" >>>>>Infact I even hate thet word! Am sorry brother but, I thought,we should >>>>>have >>>>>by now been thinking far ahead of that. What is "tribalism"????? >>>>> >>>>>Yahya >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>>From: saul khan <[log in to unmask]> >>>>>>Reply-To: The Gambia and related-issues mailing list >>>>>><[log in to unmask]> >>>>>>To: [log in to unmask] >>>>>>Subject: Reply to Basiru Ndow:Alpha's Proposals for Gambia-L] >>>>>>Date: Mon, 29 Nov 1999 05:00:13 GMT >>>>>> >>>>>>Basiru, >>>>>> >>>>>>You need to go back and read my article again. I'm not a fan of >>>>>>Ousainou's. >>>>>>However, whether he's another Jawara is beside the point. The gist of >>>>>>my >>>>>>article is that we should go after individuals who, for one reason or >>>>>>another are keeping our nation down, not any particular group or >>>>>>tribe. >>>>>> >>>>>>If you have evidence that Ousainou was campaigning on tribalism, >>>>>>produce >>>>>>it, >>>>>>and I'll be the first to condemn him. Regarding the D30K, I'm not >>>>>>familiar >>>>>>with the case. But YOU can use this forum to raise that issue. >>>>>> >>>>>>Regarding my contention w/ Alpha, if all you have is what you've said >>>>>>here, >>>>>>that's very sad. We can do better than taking cheap shots at each >>>>>>other. >>>>>>If >>>>>>you want to engage in an intelligent argument by producing evidence to >>>>>>back >>>>>>your assertions, I'm game. But if your only mission is to engage in >>>>>>sleaze, >>>>>>you'll have to look elsewhere. So Mr. Ndow, you either put up, or just >>>>>>shut >>>>>>up! I won't dignify your sleaze. >>>>>> >>>>>>Saul. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>>From: Basiru Ndow <[log in to unmask]> >>>>>>>Reply-To: [log in to unmask] >>>>>>>To: [log in to unmask] >>>>>>>Subject: [Fwd: Reply to Alpha's Some proposals for Gambia-L] >>>>>>>Date: Sun, 28 Nov 1999 19:20:06 -0600 >>>>>>> >>>>>>>Saul, >>>>>>> Your article is absolute nonsense.!!!!!you need to broaden up your >>>>>>>mind >>>>>>>and stop >>>>>>>pretending, whether you like it or not, this is the tactic that >>>>>>>Ousainou >>>>>>>used as a last resort to win the last elections..After all Ousainou >>>>>>>is >>>>>>>just >>>>>>>a >>>>>>>REPLICA of the ousted PPP regime, he was recently indicted by the >>>>>>>commission after collecting D30,969.00 from public coffers to recover >>>>>>>$74,000. from the defunct NTC, he never did his Job and never return >>>>>>>our money back....Wow!!!! Is he not going to be another Jawara or >>>>>>>Jammeh >>>>>>> >>>>>>>Thanxxxxxxxx >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>Basiru Ndow >>>>>>> >>>>>>>---------------------------------------------------------------------------- >>>>>>> >>>>>>>To unsubscribe/subscribe or view archives of postings, go to the >>>>>>>Gambia-L >>>>>>>Web interface at: http://maelstrom.stjohns.edu/archives/gambia-l.html >>>>>>> >>>>>>>---------------------------------------------------------------------------- >>>>>> >>>>>>______________________________________________________ >>>>>>Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com >>>>>> >>>>>>---------------------------------------------------------------------------- >>>>>> >>>>>>To unsubscribe/subscribe or view archives of postings, go to the >>>>>>Gambia-L >>>>>>Web interface at: http://maelstrom.stjohns.edu/archives/gambia-l.html >>>>>> >>>>>>---------------------------------------------------------------------------- >>>>> >>>>>______________________________________________________ >>>>>Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com >>>>> >>>>>---------------------------------------------------------------------------- >>>>> >>>>>To unsubscribe/subscribe or view archives of postings, go to the >>>>>Gambia-L >>>>>Web interface at: http://maelstrom.stjohns.edu/archives/gambia-l.html >>>>> >>>>>---------------------------------------------------------------------------- >>>> >>>>______________________________________________________ >>>>Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com >>>> >>>>---------------------------------------------------------------------------- >>>> >>>>To unsubscribe/subscribe or view archives of postings, go to the >>>>Gambia-L >>>>Web interface at: http://maelstrom.stjohns.edu/archives/gambia-l.html >>>> >>>>---------------------------------------------------------------------------- >>> >>>______________________________________________________ >>>Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com >>> >>>---------------------------------------------------------------------------- >>> >>>To unsubscribe/subscribe or view archives of postings, go to the Gambia-L >>>Web interface at: http://maelstrom.stjohns.edu/archives/gambia-l.html >>> >>>---------------------------------------------------------------------------- >> >>______________________________________________________ >>Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com >> >>---------------------------------------------------------------------------- >> >>To unsubscribe/subscribe or view archives of postings, go to the Gambia-L >>Web interface at: http://maelstrom.stjohns.edu/archives/gambia-l.html >> >>---------------------------------------------------------------------------- > >______________________________________________________ >Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com > >---------------------------------------------------------------------------- > >To unsubscribe/subscribe or view archives of postings, go to the Gambia-L >Web interface at: http://maelstrom.stjohns.edu/archives/gambia-l.html > >---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe/subscribe or view archives of postings, go to the Gambia-L Web interface at: http://maelstrom.stjohns.edu/archives/gambia-l.html ----------------------------------------------------------------------------