Saul, That was generous! U gave up. Note: I did not labbeled U as a backward "tribalist" I meant the idea and not U as a person. Peace. Yahya >From: saul khan <[log in to unmask]> >Reply-To: The Gambia and related-issues mailing list ><[log in to unmask]> >To: [log in to unmask] >Subject: Reply to Yaya Drammeh on Alpha's Proposals for Gambia-L >Date: Wed, 1 Dec 1999 00:34:59 GMT > >Yaya, > >I give up! Good luck. > >Saul > > >>From: yeks drame <[log in to unmask]> >>Reply-To: The Gambia and related-issues mailing list >><[log in to unmask]> >>To: [log in to unmask] >>Subject: Re: Reply to Saul on Alpha's Proposals for Gambia-L >>Date: Tue, 30 Nov 1999 00:57:07 PST >> >>Saul, >> >>If you realy mean what you are saying, why beating the bush then? You >>rigthly confirmed that your friends where within all these so called >>"Tribal" groupings. >> >>Certainly, am not trying to impress anyone! and am telling you that, am >>not >>defending Robinson as a person! am talking about his proposal. You see, >>maybe you dont know the brother, and I guess that is the reason for all >>this >>noise, but I find it strange you talking about me like the way you did, >>you >>possibly know me? and if you do you may know aswell that I am not the type >>who tries to impress people! about what?? >> >>Well, lets not get imotional. I guess this is nothing personal but a >>gathering of ideas and thoughts. I am not here to tell you who is Alpha >>and >>my knowledge about him. I will not be doing favour to the panell for doing >>so! however, the impression I got in his piece will be substantial to >>elaborate on. >> >>The brother was concern with the unfortunate ample supply of problems in >>the >>Gambia, and atleast came out with some humble ideas about how to solve >>them. >>We are certain that the problems will not disapear magically by >>themselves, >>they most be solved, or atleast managed! what proposals do you have for >>that? One thing I know is that, in order to solve these problems we will >>not put faith in ethnicsm, nor to someone with his/her panaceas, this we >>shall consider to be naive and irresponsible. Large scale( meaning >>collectively) ,concerted efforts by determined people should be the work >>force of this agenda.You believe it or not, your idea and believe cannot >>suscribe to such! >> >>Therefore, Saul! If you are willing or about teach us about our origins, >>and >>what we should know, I would be with the opinion that you first develop a >>process of awareness of the nature and gravity of the challenges in the >>Gambia, the complex situation and if there is any solution to it! that is >>what I expect to hear from you not about me personaly or Robinson! that is >>nonesense! >> >>I think any genuine person, will understand that the process of >>development >>should avoid the festering of such backward ideas of yours,"Tribal" >>issues! >>The proposals Alpha raised came at a time when the expectation became >>demand >>on the economic and political machinery that are inevitably unmet, giving >>rise to frustration and outrage.What examples did you learned from this? >>experienced! otherwise from other nations who had been in the same >>situation? What do policy makers do in such situations? To some extend we >>can take refuge to history! I thought we should have therefore, enhance >>peaceful and well defined manners with the mind of nation building. That >>was >>the essence of that wounderful piece of Alpha! The problem is there, and >>we >>shall not try to avoid grappling with those problems we already admit!We >>should not either, exihibit a childlike faith that a divine intervention >>will solve them. What am saying is that, we could have by now been >>discussing other productive questions than this. Well, that seems not to >>be >>the case here, as we are permitted to engage in happier pursuits for the >>sake of writing! >> >>Anyway, Saul I am certain that there is a common goal, and without doubt >>we >>are all suscribing to a better Gambia, and the appropriation of the forces >>to build that is nothing more than the development of ideas corresponding >>to >>individual way of annalysing. In order to achieve state objectives, I am >>well aware that we can deffer in policies and believe me there is nothing >>personal with that, you are entittle to your opinion.But we shall most >>candidly and deffinately not tollarate the idea of "Tribalism". We are >>concern with the development of the Gambia, which I believe should >>strongly be policies based on collectivism including all at large! In this >>regard,I believe that it is our duty to be betttressed by our obligations, >>to drive us to try the most prudent action possible, and that is what this >>panel I supossed is asking about! What do you have in the closset to >>offer? >> >>Saul, please dont be emotional, its the GL that put us together which I >>thought is a great thing. That we can even discuss something of this >>nature, >>that is great! Just be reasonable and dont attack on the person, evaluate >>on >>the topic. I dont know you so I guess I cant say anything about you and >>even >>if I do, it would not be on the GL. It is not a personal corresponding >>pannel! >> >>Peace brother Saul. >>Yahya >> >> >> >> >> >>>From: saul khan <[log in to unmask]> >>>Reply-To: The Gambia and related-issues mailing list >>><[log in to unmask]> >>>To: [log in to unmask] >>>Subject: Re: Reply to Yaya Drammeh on Alpha's Proposals for Gambia-L >>>Date: Mon, 29 Nov 1999 20:03:30 GMT >>> >>>Yaya, >>> >>>I don't know what's getting into you, but you're holding unto the wrong >>>vine! We (yourself and I) grew up in one of the most culturally eclectic >>>communities in the Gambia: SereKunda/Tallinding/LatriKunda. Mandingo, >>>Jola, >>>Wollof, Serere, Manjago, Karoninka ... name it, it was there. If others >>>don't know this, Yaya, you do. We have mutual friends from virtually >>>every >>>"tribe" in the Gambia. Remember my close friends: Dam Jeng, Sidia Badji, >>>Sheriff Newlands, Pa Leese Mendy, and the Jallow-Jallows? So I find it >>>funny >>>that you're trying to paint me as a narrow-minded tribalist. Who are you >>>trying to impress? What are you trying to prove? >>> >>>What is even more ironical is that, you're defending Alpha Robinson, your >>>knowledge of whom does not extend anywhere beyond his public persona. >>>What >>>do you know about Alpha other than the fact that he was supposed to be >>>the >>>firebrand Head Boy of GHS who caused a raucous at that school in the >>>mid-80s? Or the equally controversial fracas he was involved in in China >>>in >>>'89. In some books, that qualifies Alpha as a progressive. Maybe he is. >>>I >>>don't know anything about him beyond that. I have no ill will against the >>>guy. I, in fact subscribe to many of his proposals, and I've said this in >>>my >>>original piece. But I do have a problem with the ethnic issue he raised. >>>I've challenged him to tell me who these "ethnic" campaigners are, and if >>>I'm wrong, I'll apologize. Alpha denied he is referring to Darbo and UDP, >>>but Basiru Ndow who first jumped to his defense, is honest enough to >>>admit >>>that Darbo is in fact the politician Alpha is referring to just -as I >>>knew >>>he was. Who's lying here? Anyone with a modicum of intelligence can see >>>who >>>the target of his "ethnic" campaigning is. Like I told Alpha originally, >>>there's this ethnic nonsense going on, on all sides. Why insinuate that >>>it's >>>one-sided? I've said, let's expose anyone individual guilty of this >>>divisiveness, and condemn him/her. What's tribalist about that? >>> >>>A tribe-less society in Gambia is an ideal that we have to work towards. >>>We >>>are not there yet. And not to be the devil's advocate, but I don't see us >>>getting there in our lifetime. We're doing better than our parents, and I >>>hope our children will fare better. But you cannot solve your problem by >>>pushing it under the rug. We have a tribal problem in the Gambia. And >>>it's >>>not only the politicians that are guilty. It's any of us who perpetuate >>>stereotypes of one ethnic group or another, or laughs at jokes that >>>ridicule >>>one group or another, or denies someone scholarship b/c of their >>>ethnicity. >>>These are still the reality in the Gambia. I did not create this. To >>>pretend that it's not there would not solve it. We all need to come to >>>terms >>>w/ this, put everything on the table, discuss it, see where everyone is >>>coming from, and heal our nation. Just like this society (US) is trying >>>to >>>do. Otherwise, we can play dumb/naïve all we want, when the dust settles, >>>the problem will still be here. On both this forum and Gambianews.com, >>>there >>>are occasional stories of how serious tribalism now is in the Gambia. And >>>from what I gather, it's not coming from the angle Alpha seems to >>>suggest. >>> >>>The fact that I dare discuss this so-called sensitive (some may say >>>explosive) issue should tell you s'thing about me. I just don't have >>>anything to hide or prove! Let's all summon our courage and face this >>>tribal >>>issue. It won't go away by all of us sticking our heads up in the clouds >>>like you're doing Yaya. And, Yaya, you're not sophisticated only b/c you >>>don't know what "tribalism" is. Just visit the Gambia now, and no one >>>will >>>need to remind you. Look at the changes going on in the army, the police, >>>and the overall civil service. If you can't see the obvious, god help >>>you. >>>In any case, it's not fair for me to put more on your plate than you can >>>chew. If you can't comprehend, what I've been saying about this issue, >>>good >>>luck. But, just to set the record straight, I did not start this "ethnic" >>>talk. Alpha did. If he were honest enough to mention the people he's >>>referring to originally, we would have put this to rest a long time ago. >>> >>>Peace. >>> >>>Saul >>> >>>PS >>>If for some weird reason, this is your way of proving loyalty to Alpha, >>>you >>>can call me a Backward Tribalist. I don't mind. I've never been bothered >>>by >>>lies. You know that Yaya! >>> >>>Saul >>> >>> >>>>From: yeks drame <[log in to unmask]> >>>>Reply-To: The Gambia and related-issues mailing list >>>><[log in to unmask]> >>>>To: [log in to unmask] >>>>Subject: Re: Reply to Yaya Drammeh on Alpha's Proposals for Gambia-L >>>>Date: Mon, 29 Nov 1999 08:05:07 PST >>>> >>>>Saul, >>>>I mean, why are you taking such a stance. Its unproductive! very >>>>backward, >>>>and can even be considered irresponsible! for that matter. >>>>Off course, I did read your piece, and it doesn't sound positive. >>>> >>>>I think you need to use your mind better! No body is going to be out >>>>here >>>>to >>>>entertain such ideas! Robinson's piece was very educative and smart. A >>>>better Gambia, is the agenda Saul, in case you missed the point! >>>>Do you consider the out come of such ideas as "Tribalism"? what effects >>>>do >>>>they have? Why are you puting energy on"Tribal" diversity? >>>> >>>>I have been reading some of your wounderful pieces, and thought you were >>>>more smart than this. Take a little research on that word "Tribe" and >>>>see >>>>if >>>>it even fit our society! It has more wider meanings and effects than you >>>>may >>>>think. We shall not entertain that Saul! be careful! its realy >>>>backwarded >>>>and unproductive. >>>> >>>>I think, if you dont have anything to add, or argue >>>>constructively,please >>>>give chance to others who can come up better ideas concerning the >>>>progress >>>>and prosperity of our people. We are not out here just for a matter of >>>>challeging others.We are here to discuss ideas.Further more I will >>>>consider >>>>this a waste of time and energy for you, because the average Gambian is >>>>very >>>>well aware of the effects of this so called "tribal" issue." so please >>>>"lagg >>>>av nu" >>>> >>>>No hard feelings brother, "tribal" issues doesn't suit us! we are one. >>>> >>>>Yahya >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>>From: saul khan <[log in to unmask]> >>>>>Reply-To: The Gambia and related-issues mailing list >>>>><[log in to unmask]> >>>>>To: [log in to unmask] >>>>>Subject: Reply to Yaya Drammeh on Alpha's Proposals for Gambia-L >>>>>Date: Mon, 29 Nov 1999 13:14:31 GMT >>>>> >>>>>Yaya, Yaya, Yaya... >>>>> >>>>>Some things just don't change. Do they? Read my piece and read Alpha's >>>>>again, and ask yourself who the real tribalist is. Like they say around >>>>>here, "the mind is a terrible thing to waste." Use your mind Yaya! >>>>> >>>>>Saul. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>>From: yeks drame <[log in to unmask]> >>>>>>Reply-To: The Gambia and related-issues mailing list >>>>>><[log in to unmask]> >>>>>>To: [log in to unmask] >>>>>>Subject: Re: Reply to Basiru Ndow:Alpha's Proposals for Gambia-L] >>>>>>Date: Mon, 29 Nov 1999 03:42:32 PST >>>>>> >>>>>>What are U up to Saul? >>>>>>I am disapointed with those ideas of "tribal defendance" >>>>>>Alpha's proposals were not "tribal" nor were they so bad as you may >>>>>>have >>>>>>thought.If he sound wrong in his proposals, may be you have a better >>>>>>idea. >>>>>>We will certainly love to hear that one too! >>>>>> >>>>>>Any way, I am certain that Robinson, is a reasonable and responsible >>>>>>person >>>>>>who can clarify his agenda better than I may do.However, we sould not >>>>>>be >>>>>>out >>>>>>here to entertain such backward ideas as "tribalism" >>>>>>Infact I even hate thet word! Am sorry brother but, I thought,we >>>>>>should >>>>>>have >>>>>>by now been thinking far ahead of that. What is "tribalism"????? >>>>>> >>>>>>Yahya >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>>From: saul khan <[log in to unmask]> >>>>>>>Reply-To: The Gambia and related-issues mailing list >>>>>>><[log in to unmask]> >>>>>>>To: [log in to unmask] >>>>>>>Subject: Reply to Basiru Ndow:Alpha's Proposals for Gambia-L] >>>>>>>Date: Mon, 29 Nov 1999 05:00:13 GMT >>>>>>> >>>>>>>Basiru, >>>>>>> >>>>>>>You need to go back and read my article again. I'm not a fan of >>>>>>>Ousainou's. >>>>>>>However, whether he's another Jawara is beside the point. The gist of >>>>>>>my >>>>>>>article is that we should go after individuals who, for one reason or >>>>>>>another are keeping our nation down, not any particular group or >>>>>>>tribe. >>>>>>> >>>>>>>If you have evidence that Ousainou was campaigning on tribalism, >>>>>>>produce >>>>>>>it, >>>>>>>and I'll be the first to condemn him. Regarding the D30K, I'm not >>>>>>>familiar >>>>>>>with the case. But YOU can use this forum to raise that issue. >>>>>>> >>>>>>>Regarding my contention w/ Alpha, if all you have is what you've said >>>>>>>here, >>>>>>>that's very sad. We can do better than taking cheap shots at each >>>>>>>other. >>>>>>>If >>>>>>>you want to engage in an intelligent argument by producing evidence >>>>>>>to >>>>>>>back >>>>>>>your assertions, I'm game. But if your only mission is to engage in >>>>>>>sleaze, >>>>>>>you'll have to look elsewhere. So Mr. Ndow, you either put up, or >>>>>>>just >>>>>>>shut >>>>>>>up! I won't dignify your sleaze. >>>>>>> >>>>>>>Saul. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>From: Basiru Ndow <[log in to unmask]> >>>>>>>>Reply-To: [log in to unmask] >>>>>>>>To: [log in to unmask] >>>>>>>>Subject: [Fwd: Reply to Alpha's Some proposals for Gambia-L] >>>>>>>>Date: Sun, 28 Nov 1999 19:20:06 -0600 >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>Saul, >>>>>>>> Your article is absolute nonsense.!!!!!you need to broaden up >>>>>>>>your >>>>>>>>mind >>>>>>>>and stop >>>>>>>>pretending, whether you like it or not, this is the tactic that >>>>>>>>Ousainou >>>>>>>>used as a last resort to win the last elections..After all Ousainou >>>>>>>>is >>>>>>>>just >>>>>>>>a >>>>>>>>REPLICA of the ousted PPP regime, he was recently indicted by the >>>>>>>>commission after collecting D30,969.00 from public coffers to >>>>>>>>recover >>>>>>>>$74,000. from the defunct NTC, he never did his Job and never return >>>>>>>>our money back....Wow!!!! Is he not going to be another Jawara or >>>>>>>>Jammeh >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>Thanxxxxxxxx >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>Basiru Ndow >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>---------------------------------------------------------------------------- >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>To unsubscribe/subscribe or view archives of postings, go to the >>>>>>>>Gambia-L >>>>>>>>Web interface at: >>>>>>>>http://maelstrom.stjohns.edu/archives/gambia-l.html >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>---------------------------------------------------------------------------- >>>>>>> >>>>>>>______________________________________________________ >>>>>>>Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com >>>>>>> >>>>>>>---------------------------------------------------------------------------- >>>>>>> >>>>>>>To unsubscribe/subscribe or view archives of postings, go to the >>>>>>>Gambia-L >>>>>>>Web interface at: http://maelstrom.stjohns.edu/archives/gambia-l.html >>>>>>> >>>>>>>---------------------------------------------------------------------------- >>>>>> >>>>>>______________________________________________________ >>>>>>Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com >>>>>> >>>>>>---------------------------------------------------------------------------- >>>>>> >>>>>>To unsubscribe/subscribe or view archives of postings, go to the >>>>>>Gambia-L >>>>>>Web interface at: http://maelstrom.stjohns.edu/archives/gambia-l.html >>>>>> >>>>>>---------------------------------------------------------------------------- >>>>> >>>>>______________________________________________________ >>>>>Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com >>>>> >>>>>---------------------------------------------------------------------------- >>>>> >>>>>To unsubscribe/subscribe or view archives of postings, go to the >>>>>Gambia-L >>>>>Web interface at: http://maelstrom.stjohns.edu/archives/gambia-l.html >>>>> >>>>>---------------------------------------------------------------------------- >>>> >>>>______________________________________________________ >>>>Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com >>>> >>>>---------------------------------------------------------------------------- >>>> >>>>To unsubscribe/subscribe or view archives of postings, go to the >>>>Gambia-L >>>>Web interface at: http://maelstrom.stjohns.edu/archives/gambia-l.html >>>> >>>>---------------------------------------------------------------------------- >>> >>>______________________________________________________ >>>Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com >>> >>>---------------------------------------------------------------------------- >>> >>>To unsubscribe/subscribe or view archives of postings, go to the Gambia-L >>>Web interface at: http://maelstrom.stjohns.edu/archives/gambia-l.html >>> >>>---------------------------------------------------------------------------- >> >>______________________________________________________ >>Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com >> >>---------------------------------------------------------------------------- >> >>To unsubscribe/subscribe or view archives of postings, go to the Gambia-L >>Web interface at: http://maelstrom.stjohns.edu/archives/gambia-l.html >> >>---------------------------------------------------------------------------- > >______________________________________________________ >Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com > >---------------------------------------------------------------------------- > >To unsubscribe/subscribe or view archives of postings, go to the Gambia-L >Web interface at: http://maelstrom.stjohns.edu/archives/gambia-l.html > >---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe/subscribe or view archives of postings, go to the Gambia-L Web interface at: http://maelstrom.stjohns.edu/archives/gambia-l.html ----------------------------------------------------------------------------