Australian Broadcasting Corporation
LATELINE
Late night news & current affairs
TV PROGRAM TRANSCRIPT
LOCATION: abc.net.au > Lateline > Archives
URL: http://www.abc.net.au/lateline/s598174.htm
Broadcast: 3/7/2002
Aust could be terrorist target: US ambassador
The United States says two Australians suspected of being Al Qaeda operatives
will remain in prison until the campaign against terrorism ends. The US
ambassador to Australia says there's ample evidence David Hicks and Mamdouh
Habib were involved in activities in Afghanistan. And the ambassador also
believes Australians are still too complacent about terrorism.
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Compere: Tony Jones
Reporter: Edmond Roy
TONY JONES: Well, the United States says two Australians
suspected of being Al Qaeda operatives will remain in prison until
the campaign against terrorism ends.
The US ambassador to Australia says there's ample evidence
David Hicks and Mamdouh Habib were involved in activities in
Afghanistan.
And as Edmond Roy reports, the ambassador also believes
Australians are still too complacent about terrorism.
EDMOND ROY, REPORTER: US ambassador Thomas Schieffer is
warning Australians to be aware that terrorism could strike
anyway.
He believes Australia still does not take seriously the threat
terrorism poses to civilised societies.
THOMAS SCHIEFFER, US AMBASSADOR: I am always concerned
about Australians and I will put it in this way.
Terrorism happens in the Middle East or terrorism happens in
Northern Ireland.
It doesn't happen in the United States.
The attacks on September 11th changed all that for Americans.
What I sometimes worry about is -- do Australians realise that it
could happen here.
EDMOND ROY: It's in this climate that the two Australians, David
Hicks and Mamdouh Habib are continuing to be held at a US military
camp in Guantanamo Bay Cuba without being charged.
THOMAS SCHIEFFER: These two gentlemen that are being retained
now were I think pretty deeply involved in what was going on in
Afghanistan.
And I think that it's not too different than the situation that you
would have had with Nazis if they had been captured during World
War II.
EDMOND ROY: Ambassador Schieffer made it clear that those held
in Guantanamo Bay were still being questioned by US intelligence in
a continuing effort to gather information.
Meanwhile the lawyer representing David Hicks says that even
captured Nazis were held under the Geneva convention in humane
conditions.
STEPHEN KENNY, LAWYER: What we are saying is fine, if they are
prisoners of war, please designate them and treat them as
prisoners of war.
If he says they're terrorists then charge them as terrorists and
we'll deal with it then.
If they're prisoners of war, nominate that fact, apply the Geneva
convention to them and that will be the end of the matter.
EDMOND ROY: He's once again called on the Government to clarify
the status of the prisoners.
Edmond Roy, Lateline.
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Australian Broadcasting Corporation
LATELINE
Late night news & current affairs
TV PROGRAM TRANSCRIPT
LOCATION: abc.net.au > Lateline > Archives
URL: http://www.abc.net.au/lateline/s599159.htm
Broadcast: 4/7/2002
Independence Day post-September 11
Lateline host Tony Jones speaks with the United States ambassador to Australia
Tom Schieffer.
---------
Compere: Tony Jones
Reporter: Tony Jones
TONY JONES: Well, just a short time ago I raised some of these
issues with the US ambassador to Australia, Tom Schieffer in our
Canberra studio.
Ambassador Tom Schieffer, could you have imagined before
September 11, that the national holiday would be like this, jet
fighters in the air over all your major cities, forces deployed to
guard tunnels and bridges and airports and power stations.
Could you have imagined that?
TOM SCHIEFFER, US AMBASSADOR: Well, I don't think anybody
could.
It's been a year like no other.
I will say this.
We had a great 4th of July at the American Embassy.
We had over 1,000 people there.
We played baseball.
We had hot dogs and apple pie and it was a wonderful day and I
think Americans are going to have the same kind of day tomorrow.
They're going to enjoy it and have fun, because that's what 4th of
July is all about.
TONY JONES: Is there, though, a genuine threat of a terrorist
attack on this holiday?
TOM SCHIEFFER: I think it's obvious that this would be a date that
terrorists might be a problem, but we're a pretty determined lot
in America and Americans just have a kind of a -- stick out their
chin and enjoy the day and not let these people ruin it for
everybody.
I think we're looking forward to having that kind of family fun day
in the United States.
TONY JONES: The President has warned Americans that they're at
war and that that war could go on indefinitely.
Are you concerned at all that there's been a fear built into the
American psyche as a result of all of this?
TOM SCHIEFFER: I don't think it's fear, but I think it is an
awareness that these are dangerous times that we live in and
there are dangerous people out there that don't wish us well.
I think it's wise to take precaution against those kind of people,
but I also don't think they ought to be allowed to rule our lives.
If they were, they would be the winners in this whole thing and we
don't want them to win.
TONY JONES: You have been through this kind of thing before at
the height of the Cold War when Americans lived in constant fear,
more or less, of a nuclear attack.
That fear did breed as well as making you stronger as a nation.
It did breed other things of poison in the system.
It bred McCarthyism, for example.
Are you worried that that sort of paranoia could happen again?
TOM SCHIEFFER: I'm really not.
I think that we learned a lot in that period.
I think we learned a lot in World War II.
I think you've seen that in the way that this war has been
conducted.
You know, we did some things that we weren't too proud of with
the Japanese-Americans that lived in the west coast.
We basically put them into camps during the war and we interned
them for no other reason than they were Japanese-Americans.
That was a terrible thing.
You haven't seen anything like that with Arab Americans or people
of Islamic faith in America.
On the contrary, you've seen the President go to mosque,
repeatedly people are talking in America about the brotherhood of
man and the tolerance of religion.
I think those are good things.
I think we've learned a lot of things and I think this will be a tough
war, probably a long war, but it's one that we're going to win
because we have to.
We just cannot allow people to plunge this world into a new dark
age and that's what these people would dough.
TONY JONES: Let me ask you about the two Australians who you
mentioned yesterday in your speech, who are caught up in the
centre of this, and who are interned at Guantanamo Bay.
What proof is there that they have been involved in any sort of
terrorism?
TOM SCHIEFFER: Well, they were in Afghanistan.
I think that's good proof right there.
They were involved in military activities there.
They were picked up crossing the border and inside Afghanistan,
and the intelligence that we have and some of the intelligence that
I think has been provided by them confirms to us that these are
members of terrorist groups and that they're dangerous people
and they need to be kept off the streets.
TONY JONES: Is there any specific evidence, though, that they may
have been involved in any kind of terrorist activity or plans to
conduct any terrorist activity against the United States or its
allies?
TOM SCHIEFFER: Yes.
Yes, there is specific evidence, but I'm afraid that I can't go into
that tonight.
I think it will all come out in due course.
TONY JONES: What sort of evidence is it though?
TOM SCHIEFFER: Well, I think it's very definite and I think it will
come out in due course.
I don't think I want to go into it beyond that.
TONY JONES: Is there evidence, for example, that they may have
been part of the Al Qaeda network?
TOM SCHIEFFER: Yes.
TONY JONES: And that evidence comes from their own
statements?
TOM SCHIEFFER: Tony, I think that's about all I'm going to say on
that.
These are dangerous people.
They're people that should be kept off the streets.
They're people that would be dangerous to Americans and I think
to Australians and they need to be interned and when this conflict
is over, then they can be brought to justice.
TONY JONES: Ambassador, you would understand why Australians
would want to know more about this.
Two of its citizens have been virtually stripped of their rights,
held incommunicado for many months now and no-one has actually
made any specific allegations against them.
No-one has charged them with anything.
We don't know what they did?
TOM SCHIEFFER: Well, Tony, the Australian Government has visited
these people and I think they're satisfied that they're being
interned, and justifiably so, and we have to leave it at that until
we can get further along in this process.
The people that are at Guantanamo Bay are people that have been
involved in this conflict.
They were apprehended in Afghanistan, involved in terrorist
activities.
Interrogations are going on with all those prisoners and they're
providing valuable intelligence that hopefully will save lives in the
future and I think it has already done a lot to help destroy some
of these terrorist networks around the world.
Specifically as to those two individuals, I think that's about all I
can say at this point in time.
TONY JONES: When do you think we might see specific proof set
out as to what they've done.
Their lawyers, for example, have been unable to see them.
Their families have been unable to see them.
Could those things change in the interim?
TOM SCHIEFFER: I'm sure that they could at some point in time,
but this is not the time.
TONY JONES: When do you think it might be the time?
TOM SCHIEFFER: Tony, I don't know and, you know, I've tried to be
forthcoming on this, but these people are people that have been
involved in terrorist activity.
They're known terrorists, they've been associating with terrorists
and at some point in time we'll be able to bring all this out and I
think that people will be satisfied that these were indeed
dangerous people.
TONY JONES: Let's turn, if we can, to the international criminal
court.
Your European allies appear to be showing genuine frustration
over America's intransigence on this issue.
Can you see any compromise in the deadlock that now exists over
UN peacekeeping force?
TOM SCHIEFFER: I think we saw something in the paper this
morning that the President said we were trying toward breaking
the impasse.
Our position with the International Criminal Court, we think
everybody is against war crimes, but what we're afraid of is that
American soldiers that we have been directed to be in
peacekeeping operations around the world, may some day be
prosecuted by a prosecutor who has no mandate, is not elected by
anybody and somebody that might, through a political vendetta,
try to bring our troops into some sort of criminal court and that's
what we're concerned about.
TONY JONES: That argument, of course, was played out here in
Australia, but the PM in the end took the view that if that were to
happen, if any Australian troops were accused of war crimes, they
would be allowed to be tried in Australia under Australian law.
Wouldn't the same thing apply to American troops being tried in
America if they were so accused?
TOM SCHIEFFER: Well, I think what we have here is a difference of
opinion.
We discussed our position with the Australians.
We made it very clear that we were opposed to the criminal court
on the grounds that we thought that Americans could be
persecuted unjustly.
The Australians take a different view of that.
That's OK with us.
I think that democracies can often disagree, can often reach
different conclusions, but in the end, each of us has to act in
what we believe is the interests of our own citizens.
TONY JONES: The US showed that it was in the end prepared even
to jeopardise the existence of the UN peacekeeping force in
Bosnia over this issue, so strongly do you feel about it.
Now that antagonised your allies.
Will that be a problem?
In the future, your European allies will be looking much closer at
the way America behaves in situations like this?
TOM SCHIEFFER: Well, I think that what you see in Europe is
vigorous democracies talking about things, discussing things,
debating things.
From time to time, they'll come to different conclusions.
But we're still allies.
We can differ on this program or that program or participation in
this or participation in that.
But that doesn't mean that we're not allies and we're not good
friends.
I think this is just evidence of how good our relationships are that
we can, from time to time, differ on specific issues.
TONY JONES: Briefly on the trade question, if I can to finish up the
interview, can Australians have a realistic expectation that the
US Congress will vote at any time in the future for a free-trade
agreement with a very large agricultural exporter like Australia?
TOM SCHIEFFER: I think there's every reason to believe that good,
hard negotiations can produce an agreement.
What the President told the PM when he was in Washington last
week or a couple of weeks ago was that we had to get trade
promotion authority through the Congress.
Trade promotion authority would then give us the ability to
negotiate bilateral agreements with our friends and allies.
Nobody is in front of Australia.
I think Australia is literally the next country up to have a bilateral
trade agreement negotiated.
Is it going to be easy?
No, it's not going to be easy.
Agriculture is tough, but agriculture is tough all across the world.
It's tough in Europe, Japan, China, United States and Australia,
because farmers vote, and everybody likes their farmers.
TONY JONES: Alright, ambassador, thank you very much for joining
us tonight on Lateline.
TOM SCHIEFFER: Thank you, Tony.
Happy July 4th.
TONY JONES: You too, Sir.
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