On Mon, 11 Jan 1999, John Apsley wrote:

        Off the top of my memory, bovine (cow) dairy products
        actually have a relatively high amount of arginine
        compared to lysine, hence many people with herpes I or
        II, which may be activated or aggravated by too much
        Arginine, can take lysine to hasten recovery from herpes
        painful lesion outbreaks. In your references, the second
        one clearly states the ratio as Lysine:Arginine, not
        Arginine: Lysine. This means, if I am correct, that your
        table is headed incorrectly. The ratios may all be for
        Lysine::Arginine, or am I incorrect?

The Rajamohan article indicates that a *low* lys:arg ratio is
hypocholesterolemic, but a low lys:arg ratio is equivalent to a
high arg:lys ratio.  The Kurowska article indicated the
hypercholesterolemic effects of amino acids other than arginine.
I chose to report arg:lys ratios so that arginine would be first,
since it appears to be the one to watch.

According to the USDA, whole milk has .119g arg per 100g and
.261g lys per 100g.  This gives an arg:lys ratio of .45, which is
I think what I reported.

I assume that the effect of the arg:lys ratio on herpes is
independent of its effect on serum cholesterol, but I certainly
don't question that effect.  This only illustrates the point that
in the realm of human physiology many things are not
unequivocally "good" or "bad."

To tack back toward the subject matter of this list, however, I'd
like to bring up the issue of legumes in pre-agricultural diets.
The legume proteins that I have checked also tend to have high
arg:lys ratios, though not as high as nuts.  They also tend to
have low glycemic index, based on my browsing of on-line GI
lists.

One argument is that legumes could not have been part of
paleolithic diets because they are not edible raw, or if they are
edible it is only for a brief time.  Another argument is that
they contain anti-nutrients, such as trypsin inhibitors and
phytic acid, and so would have had unfavorable effects.
Nevertheless, I conjecture that it is impossible to generalize
about legumes in this way.  Some legumes, such as lentils, can be
eaten after soaking for several hours, and soaking seens to me to
be a technology within reach of paleolithic humans.  It does not
require durable pottery vessels but can be done with animal
bladders.

Is there evidence that pre-agricultural people gathered and ate
lentils or other legumes?

Todd Moody
[log in to unmask]