Let me amend some of this.

Anwar J Goins wrote:
>
> That is because these principles are backed up by an army. Let us look at the
> whole history of the united states and then see if these principles have
> always been held. The united states is NOT and let me say again NOT unique in
> the aspect of letting others do whatever it is they feel is right to do.
> Maybe as a nation we are so united because it is one made up mostly of
> foreigners where a new identity was formed that allowed for these principles,
> being called American tradition, and disallowed for the continuance of those
> foreign principles. Dividing a land up encompassing 50 different native ethnic
> groups that have been there for time immemorial with totally different
> traditions and then trying to unite them under a "nation" is not an easy
task. So I wouldn't knock other countries so hard.  Like I mentioned
> earlier, look at the WHOLE history of the U.S. Has this freedom always been
> the case for all? I'm Afro-American and I know it hasn't. Ask some native
Americans
> who have felt the lack of freedom their ancestors have been treated with by
> the U.S. government. We do not know the whole of the history of mankind so
> we CANNOT say that this form of liberty is a novel thing. The Qur'an also
promotes this,
> though Islamic hadeeth(traditions) later abrogate it. Because the Qur'an
promotes
this I  am sure that during the time when Muhammad, God bless him, was alive and
> preached the Qur'an, there was a community that practiced these same
> principles. You are too nationalistic. I'm not anti-U.S. and the U.S. has not
> always and in some cases still doesn't stand for the freedoms that it is
> supposed to uphold. The Qur'an promotes these same freedoms and they are
logical and fair
> and that is why I uphold them. If other nations, even those who may claim to
> follow the Quran, don't uphold these it is becuase they don't believe in
this liberty,
> and for those Islamic nations- because they don't truly uphold the Qura'n. I
> don't really care for your example. For many if it weren't that the gov.
> punishes for murder and obvious oppression of religion in the U.S. these
> groups would still be warring. Yet there have been times when all have lived
> under the same gov. and lived in good peace in foreign lands and in times
gone by. Do not deny this. I support
> those excellent, just, logical, intelligent and prudent things and I denounce
> those that contradict all of the aforementioned, whether the U.S. embraces
it or whether any one else does. I stand for the principles, not the
tradition or the so
> called 'unity'. There are some things that I do agree with and some things that
> I don't. I much more would admire the people who came up with these
> rules(though many seem to have been hypocrites) for their intelligence in
coming up with
> them. These were learned people and even knew about the Qur'an and other
> scriptures for that matter- not followers of blind nationlistic propaganda and
> doctrine. I don't so much disagree with what your saying but more the tone
> with which you say it. The united states has certainly not always lived up to
> its principles and it in ways does not today. I look and see and then judge.
> I'm not as biased as you may believe. Whether you believe it or not the
> Qur'an also promotes individual freedom. It says 'There shall be no forcing,
> concerning order and ways of life. Right guidance will stand out clearly from
> misguidance'. Not everything "modern" is new. Much is pulled from what is old.
>
> Godbless,
> Anwar
>
>
>
>  Liza May wrote:
> >
> > Hi Anwar,
> >
> > >  Moreover, this aspect is not UNIQUE in ALL
> > > history.
> >
> > I'm thinking maybe part of the reason that there appears to be so much
> > American bashing and blaming among the various left-wing groups, is
> > that, like I see here in your post Anwar and the ones from Carol and
> > Margali, there is a lack of understanding of America's uniqueness.
> >
> > I think this is an important problem, actually.
> >
> > The veneration of individual freedom, and the tolerance that must be
> > there in order for individual freedom to exist, is wholly American. I
> > see that people don't quite realize this. These are the principles upon
> > which this country was founded, and, like I said in my last post, really
> > constitue the American "religion." I think this is easier for
> > non-Americans to see this than Americans. I think it is hard for us to
> > see ourselves clearly. But if anything defines us, it is these
> > principles.
> >
> > When you fully recognize the uniqueness of this very new, very
> > outrageous project called the United States, you get a little nervous
> > when you think that the world could lose this brash "work in progress."
> > Individual freedom is a big, big deal.  The United States is the best
> > organized attempt so far at actually insuring personal liberty, in the
> > whole history of the human race until this point.
> >
> > Last Sunday, at Yankee Stadium, Muslims and Jews sat next to each other.
> > A Hindu, a Sikh, a Buddhist, a rabbi, an African American woman minister
> > and a Greek Orthodox Catholic priest stood side-by-side in a crowded
> > ballpark, holding hands, with  "Adidas" and "Bud-Lite" signs flashing
> > overhead!  In other places in the world they are killing each other's
> > children.
> >
> > This IS a unique country!
> >
> > Love Liza
> >
>