Very good comments Carol, I was impressed. I've stated my personal view on
the
raw food thing. I'm also one of those who wants to be as independent as
possible but with a spiritual twist. I don't think it is a smart
move to make yourself fullly dependent on anyone else. I think this is
the first step towards setting yourself up for oppression or some other
sort of tribulation. I believe in technology as long as it is prudent and
intelligently used. I also support technology as long as it is not used
to promote what I would see to be vain purposes, meaning I support its
use in a way that is as wholistic as possible as it concerns betterment,
promotion of good and well being,
intelligence, discernment and all practical purposes. I don't know how
sick you are, Liza, of these peole whom you've observed. I don't feel that
I'm
that type at all. But this is suppossed to be a country that supports
freedom of relgion, order and way of life. You also have a right
to express your disgust or criticize. I don't necessarily vibe with most
in that crowd either. Because I'm not in it for the same reason. I'm in
it for ethics but I think vegan ethic is faulty and I believe that
violence is necessary and to be encouraged some times. Rastafari are totally
different then those 'raggamuffins' as Carol called them. But hey what
can you say? I've left plenty of lists because I've noticed that people
were on a different level than I was. They had something else, another
bias which drew them to where they were. And that just wasn't where
I was. If you see this on this list and you know what you have to offer
will not be understood, let alone listened to then I understand your
sentiments in not wanting to continue on here. I've been there. I can't
guarantee you that I'll agree with everything you say but I will do my
best to give it as fair a judgement and critique as I can. WTO and
globalization have drastic negative consequences for a true free market
and all those small business who are trying to make it out there. Who,
unfortunately, would be supporting the same thing if they were the
businesses getting the benefits. For these businesses to survive they
need to find a niche and loyal market(s) or they need to restructure the
concept of why they have their businesses, possibly turning them into
non-profits and redirecting any incoming money to what they would spend
it on anyway as well as to insure their survival. It maybe tricky but I'm
sure there is a way to do it. Personally, what i see
going on with organic is just as bad as the rest. They are trying to make
as much as possible in disregard to getting quality food to all
people or the people who may need it. But I believe that respecting WTO and
Global enconomy's right to
exist is essential, and for those who want to survive their going to have
to reconsider their priorities and/or the way they do business. I think
big businesses are a threat to many of our freedoms because of the money
and therefore the power that they wield. Companies are the driving forces
behind science, our technology and the ways we think(TV, movies, radio and
all that good stuff). They drive this
country in many ways. That's their freedom and it is the people's freedom
to fall into this. But I should have the right to survive, not fall
into this and to be free to chose, my order, religion and way of life.
Regardless of whether that goes against some company's profits. Raw milk,
in many states, comes to mind. This is a good case of company propaganda,
using false, though now  widely accepted, science to cut loss of profits,
and turning it into law. Thereby stripping the public's freedom which
would take away from the money they would otherwise be getting.

Godbless,
Anwar

Carol wrote: >
> Liza, I hope you don't leave the list.  We've certainly had our little
> tiffs, you and I, but I think you're one of the most consistently
> interesting voices here.  The list would be diminished by your absence.
>
> > WHY do raw food types, organic simple-lifestyle, shun-materialism,
> > types, those who would have been in demonstrations to protest against
> > the WTO and globalization and now are in demonstrations to protest
> > military action, African-American-blacks in dreadlocks and those
> > colorful crocheted caps, and whites with natural hemp clothing flat
> > shoes and no make-up, lesbian-feminists, good union activists, lefty
> > poets and artists, and RAW FOODISTS  -   why is it that these people
> > want to band together in the streets to say "We protest the military
> > actions against Bin Ladens and those who shelter bin Laden?"
>
> Here in my California town, I've watched just what you describe.  Even
> before we all knew the name Osama bin Laden, there was a clear alliance --
> even a blending, in some ways -- of the Rastas (most of whom are not serious
> Rastafarians but hippy-ish types known locally as ragamuffins) and the
> vegans.  Because the majority of raw foodists are vegan raw foodists (in my
> experience) and because the majority of vegans are in it for the ethics and
> not the health angle (in my experience) it's understandable to me that the
> vegan camp and the raw folks would find a lot of common ground.
>
> Serious Rastafarians only eat "I-tal" food, which is completely natural,
> vegetarian, and often mostly raw.  Our local ragamuffins (mostly white
> teenagers) often know little about true Rastafarianism, but they like the
> dreadlocks and they've heard that it's vegetarian, so they think it's cool.
> While true Rastafarians are not really into non-violence, the ragamuffins
> often blend the idea of I-tal food with the beliefs of the compassion vegans
> into a non-violent pseudo-Rasta all their own.  The vegans, the raw
> foodists, and the ragamuffins seem united in their belief that an ethic of
> compassion is indivisible from one of non-violence.
>
> The lesbian feminists and union activist types seem to be coming at it from
> a different angle.  Their big bugaboo is oppression, and they are most
> concerned about the refugees and collateral damage victims.  I don't see
> them hanging out with the previous group at all in peacetime, but they'll
> tolerate them, it seems, if it means that their protest march has more
> people in it.
>
> The simplicity folks, in my experience, are of two very different types.
> There are the ones who are spiritual about it, and there are the ones who
> are into it because they want to be as independent and off-the-grid as
> possible.  The first group is often non-violent because it's part of their
> spirituality.  The second group probably hates bin Ladin as much as anybody,
> but they often see our government as almost as bad.  These latter types are
> the last folks you'd see in a protest.  They just want to be left alone.
>
> These are all just my impressions.
>
> C
>