I read Brad McCormick's posting and also the E-mail he sent direct to me.
 It contains nothing that seems sensitive, so I have taken the liberty of
tacking it below. I hope he does not mind.)  I would reply to them but I am
unable to discern a clear message in his comments.

As far as I can tell, he sems to be saying that scientists and other
professionals sometimes lie in order to maintain the high standards to which
they are comitted.  Accordingly, he seems to be suggesting, when they lie
they should sometimes be applauded for their high motivations, not condemned
for their deceit.  In other words, there is good scientific lying and bad
scientific lying.

Can he confirm that this is what he wants to say?  If so, I would be
interested in examples that do not have political overtones.  I would also
like to know what tests could be applied to distinguish them.

Sincerely

John Hewitt




----- Original Message -----
From: Brad McCormick, Ed.D. <[log in to unmask]>
To: <[log in to unmask]>
Sent: Sunday, October 29, 2000 8:50 PM
Subject: Re: Science and guilt -


> John Hewitt wrote:
> >
> > SDV, below, gives a rather long list of things that scientists have lied
> > about.
> >
> > I would certainly not dissent from the accusation that scientists lie.
> [snip]
>
> Surely there is nothing *particularly* shameful about this (i.e.,
> *more* shameful than lawyers or teachers of doctors or managers or
> [whoevers] lying), for
>
>     to do science is to be human
>
> And we know that humans have many reasons to lie, not *all* of
> which are even necessarily "wrong"!  (Would it be wrong if Heisenberg
> in fact lied about the prospects of nuclear fission during the
> Nazi era?).
>
> Of course, in proportion as private and public *trust* is
> bestowed upon scientists, then their lies (and all their other
> behavior: from their scrupulousness in keeping lab notes, to
> their treatment of their lab techs, to their social and
> material "engineering" accomplishments, etc.) need to be
> judged just like the actions and inactions of all other
> persons in positions of power, i.e., of *stewardship* (and what
> other *justification* can there be for power?).
>
> +\brad mccormick
>
> --
>   Let your light so shine before men,
>               that they may see your good works.... (Matt 5:16)
>
>   Prove all things; hold fast that which is good. (1 Thes 5:21)
>
> <![%THINK;[SGML+APL]]> Brad McCormick, Ed.D. / [log in to unmask]
>   914.238.0788 / 27 Poillon Rd, Chappaqua NY 10514-3403 USA
> -----------------------------------------------------------------
>   Visit my website ==> http://www.users.cloud9.net/~bradmcc/

Brad McCormick, in a direct E-mail writes :-

How fitting that your "Notice" page has no links!

No exit!

No way to weasel out without at least having some chance
of noticing you are weaseling!

You put yourself here, now see where you are!

--

When I was in Japan, 15 years ago, I loved the sign which appeared on
every train headed back to "the yard".  At the left side of
the notice was a Kanji that *looked* like a Bullseye. To the
right, the words:

    DEAD HEAD TRAIN

--

May no good person ever again have to be "dead right"!

--

Best wishes from "the [computer] trenches"!

+\brad mccormick