If you want the Trump people to read it, it would have to be short anyway. Peter On Sun, 4 Feb 2024 at 16:02, john wymore <[log in to unmask]> wrote: > Excellant Work, Mister Neggerman,Excellant. Now if I can onlhy find a way > to put it all on a bumper sticker. > > On Feb 3, 2024, at 9:07 PM, Jack Neggerman <[log in to unmask]> wrote: > > > > Can you imagine anyone with these below traits and qualities? > > *Amoral, lawless, career criminal, pathological narcissism, sociopath, > horribly litigious, scores of unpaid bills, loses extreme amounts of other > peoples’ money, devoid of empathy, temperamentally unfit, unqualified, > sexually assaultive, deep belief it is OK to denigrate others, easily turns > on friends, very effective con, fraudulent, reckless, extreme liar, behaves > like a mob boss, incapable of ever owning any fault, invariably projects > undesirable traits on to others, extremely entitled, comfortable in > violating others, dangerously vindictive, * > > *Denies hundred percent of mistakes, very sore loser, makes people believe > the demonstrably inaccurate, very effective con, bully, fraudulent, only > cares about self, no patience, no integrity, doesn’t read, numerous > failures, idolizes dictators, corrupt, extremely divisive, a scammer, a > cheat, successfully evades consequences, bent on revenge, incapable of > tolerating loss, deep insecurity under supersized ego, profoundly selfish, > gluttonous greed, acts as if not subject to the Law, early adolescent level > of psychological development, often a loser, cringe worthy > self-aggrandizement, laughingstock, plays victim card perfectly when > needed, a figure from the past. Also has a variety of strengths.* > *Imagine a combination of all of these traits and qualities:* > > *Does this create a picture of anyone you can imagine?* > > > > > > On Feb 3, 2024, at 9:19 PM, Dan Bloom <[log in to unmask]> wrote: > > Phil: > > The French philosopher Alain Badiou called Wagner the first rockstar and > compared him to David Bowie. Badiou said the performances of Wagner at his > Festspielhaus (his own opera house) were like rock concerts. Fanatics came > from around the world to attend. Women were known to faint when they heard > the first chord of Tristan und Isolde. > > Dan > > On Feb 3, 2024, at 9:09 PM, Dan Bloom <[log in to unmask]> wrote: > > Just let me know if you need the context for that event in the Ring of the > Nibelungen. I call it an “event” and not an aria because it is a pivot > point in the drama and because it is way beyond the simple beauty of the > performance. > > That band in the video also did a heavy metal rendition of one of the > movements of Brahms’s Deutsche Requiem. > > Dan > > On Feb 3, 2024, at 8:56 PM, Philip Brownell <[log in to unmask]> > wrote: > > Will do. And I’ll send it to George, my translation Ukraine, because he > plays heavy metal guitar. > > > Sent from my iPhone > > On Feb 3, 2024, at 6:28 PM, Dan Bloom <[log in to unmask]> wrote: > > Try this as an entry point: > > <maxresdefault.jpeg> > Richard WAGNER METAL-Version - Ein Schwert verhieß mir der Vater (Wälse!) > <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=62_q6Imd8cA&ab_channel=SelinSch%C3%B6nbeck> > youtube.com > <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=62_q6Imd8cA&ab_channel=SelinSch%C3%B6nbeck> > > <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=62_q6Imd8cA&ab_channel=SelinSch%C3%B6nbeck> > > On Feb 3, 2024, at 7:08 PM, Philip Brownell <[log in to unmask]> > wrote: > > Ah. I will have to listen. One of those things I never got around to. A > deficiency I’m sure. > Sent from my iPhone > > On Feb 3, 2024, at 5:03 PM, Dan Bloom <[log in to unmask]> wrote: > > I never danced t Wagner > Sent from my iPhone > > On Feb 3, 2024, at 6:31 PM, Philip Brownell <[log in to unmask]> > wrote: > > ? > No to what? > > Sent from my iPhone > > On Feb 3, 2024, at 3:54 PM, Dan Bloom <[log in to unmask]> wrote: > > Actually, no. :) > > > > On Feb 3, 2024, at 5:32 PM, Peter Philippson <[log in to unmask]> > wrote: > > Have you tried dancing to Wagner? > > P > > On Sat, 3 Feb 2024 at 22:25, Dan Bloom <[log in to unmask]> wrote: > >> Peter. >> >> You make a good point about fascism. Trump’s rallies use Village People >> songs. Loathsome fascists used better music. Wagner? LOL >> >> Dan >> >> On Feb 3, 2024, at 4:53 PM, Peter Philippson <[log in to unmask]> >> wrote: >> >> Hi Dan, >> >> But why Phil's flatulence now? Why does he buy the definition from those >> who would force Americans to be 'good Christians' in their mould? >> >> And notice Phil's line 'AND, I did not expect the resistance of the >> established government system that helped turn the guy into the very worst >> version of himself'. If you recall, the resistance was to stop Trump doing >> really crazy stuff, but now those who did that are to blame for how Trump >> is now. Myths in the making. >> >> My guess is that the fear is that this collective madness that both the >> Republican Party and the religious fundamentalists (Christian, Jewish and >> Moslem) have shown themselves vulnerable to, even those as kind in other >> ways as Phil, will in the end bury both the Republicans and the Christian >> Right. So desperation is justified. If we can just say that gender >> uncertainty is as bad as insurrection, that being old like Biden is as bad >> as being slightly less old and crazy, and keep on pretending that Trump had >> a plan beyond staying in power, maybe we can convince people. If not, >> maybe the same arguments can move the deluded into civil war. >> >> The joke is that what is being supported isn't even fascism. Fascists >> build lots of workers' houses, made the trains run on time, invented the >> Volkswagen, motorways and national parks. These want to legislate what >> bathrooms people can use! >> >> Peter >> >> On Sat, 3 Feb 2024 at 21:38, Dan Bloom <[log in to unmask]> wrote: >> >>> Wow. >>> >>> So you bought the line the “swamp.” I am shocked, not surprised. >>> >>> Trump has directly said he will remove from the civil service everyone >>> he thinks has or will be disloyal to him. He has said he’d pardon the >>> insurrectionists and other criminals found guilty by courts of law. He >>> said he will direct the justice department to hunt down democrats. (By the >>> way, he has no authority to do that. Just ask Wm Barr. Or read the >>> constitution.) He said he’d consider ordering the military to invade >>> Mexico — and into American cities. I don’t know which would be worse.... >>> >>> >>> His claim to be a dictator for one day was not irony. I believe he lacks >>> the cognitive sophistication to understand irony. Do I think he REALLY >>> meant he would declare himself a dictator. Not for a minute. I heard that >>> as flatulence from an autocrat. Or the preening of someone who stares in >>> the mirror and tell himself he is a "stable genius” who aces cognitive >>> exams. Yet who are his models? Oban. Putin. >>> >>> We all have lots of problems. We as a culture have devalued if not >>> marginalized critical thinking and free expression of ideas. Ideologues of >>> the right and the left threaten to bury us under their orthodoxies. >>> >>> Trumps supporters. Their cultish devotion to him is difficult to >>> explain. Do a search on YouTube for “Trump” and “Wrestlemania.” You’ll >>> see crowds cheering him on. >>> >>> I return to “swamp.” I don’t believe it exists. It is a creation of >>> people who have been against the power of the federal government since the >>> New Deal. Or even further back, it was a product of populist nativism that >>> was anti-immigrant and anti-all-minorities. “America First”? That was a >>> reaction to a sense that those in power — the swamp — want to drag us into >>> wars. >>> >>> Swamp? It is always them and never us. >>> >>> Dan >>> >>> On Feb 3, 2024, at 1:59 PM, Philip Brownell <[log in to unmask]> >>> wrote: >>> >>> As far as Maher’s observation goes, I think it is directed at the swamp. >>> Let’s take it away from science. Do I think that Taylor Swift is a sinister >>> agent of the left to sway voters? No. That verges on the delusional. Do I >>> think that Trump means to be a dictator and will wipe out our entire >>> constitutional government because he says that on day one he will be a >>> dictator? No. People don’t understand his idiomatic expression and never >>> have. The swamp is this split out society that did not get this way because >>> of Trump; it’s been developing since at least Nixon. And Trump emerged from >>> that. It’s partly a product of declining quality of education, the >>> emergence of a “screen culture” where people cannot tolerate complexity and >>> have no patience. Quick and simple. Text instead of email. Forced choice >>> alternatives between this and that. Data driven “reality” that cannot >>> understand the feel of the moment. So a complex adaptive system makes no >>> sense and it must be that Trump/Biden is either all good or all bad. >>> >>> I have been re-evaluating a lot of things in the last few years. I was >>> supportive of Trump because I thought he would be an iconoclast who could >>> go to Washington and break up the stuck and dysfunctional aspects of our >>> government. I was naive. I did not expect—suspect—the power of the >>> resisting bureaucracy. It was not a peaceful transfer of power. It was a >>> stealthy subterfuge. And that is the ground upon which Trump supporters >>> have become stubbornly loyal. And now they view Trump’s legal problems as >>> just more of the same. So as the indictments were brought Trump’s ratings >>> went up. And that kind of narrative, whether a person believes it or not is >>> part of the current split, part of the swamp. The swamp is both left and >>> right. >>> >>> Phil >>> Sent from my iPhone >>> >>> On Feb 3, 2024, at 11:29 AM, Philip Brownell <[log in to unmask]> >>> wrote: >>> >>> Dan >>> One difference. That which emerges is not identical to that from which >>> it emerges. The swamp gas is not the swamp. They are indeed in a sub- and >>> supervenient relationship, and so Trump emerged from and is of a complex >>> adapting field, and he now exerts a downward influence over it. But the >>> field is still self adapting. There is a Haley. There are more people in >>> the country who will not vote for Trump than who will (no matter what). >>> There is the separation of powers in the government. The system is in >>> turmoil, not dead. >>> >>> And what I think would be wise is to examine the swamp more than the >>> swamp gas. >>> >>> Phil >>> Sent from my iPhone >>> >>> On Feb 3, 2024, at 10:37 AM, Peter Philippson <[log in to unmask]> >>> wrote: >>> >>> >>> Thanks Dan. >>> >>> I think there are arguments to be had about all those points, but the >>> main thing is the totally dumb attempt to provide a spurious parity between >>> actions that weaken the democratic and legal bonds that hold a nation >>> together or that sustain our capacity to live comfortably on our planet, >>> and the gender thing which only really affects those involved. >>> >>> Peter >>> >>> On Sat, 3 Feb 2024 at 16:17, Dan Bloom <[log in to unmask]> wrote: >>> >>>> I agree Peter. >>>> >>>> His emergence is of a field in which he has been a provocateur. >>>> >>>> We know in emergence theory that emergent events exert downward >>>> non-linear “causation" on that from which they are emergent. This is a >>>> sub- and supervenient relationship. >>>> >>>> Trump is both the swamp gas emergent of the swamp and the swamp itself. >>>> :) >>>> >>>> I agree with Maher, by the way. Both sides deny the science that is >>>> inconvenient to them. But his characterization of gender issues is >>>> uninformed. Does he really know nothing about them? Seems he does. >>>> >>>> Dan >>>> >>>> On Feb 3, 2024, at 10:56 AM, Peter Philippson < >>>> [log in to unmask]> wrote: >>>> >>>> No, he was the enabler, but he would have been nobody without people >>>> who said 'Well he isn't presidential, but he fulfills our/God's purpose.' >>>> Now who would have said that?! >>>> >>>> By the way, field theory doesn't say that an individual isn't very >>>> powerful at times. >>>> >>>> Peter >>>> >>>> On Sat, 3 Feb 2024 at 00:26, Philip Brownell < >>>> [log in to unmask]> wrote: >>>> >>>>> Ya know. He alone, all by himself pulled the entire country apart. >>>>> Where is your field theory right now Peter? It’s just not that simple. >>>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>>> >>>>> On Feb 2, 2024, at 4:50 PM, Peter Philippson < >>>>> [log in to unmask]> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Weasel, weasel, weasel... >>>>> >>>>> You are a distinterested social experimenter who supported the guy who >>>>> as we predicted pulled apart the social fabric of your country IN THE NAME >>>>> OF CONSERVATISM. >>>>> >>>>> Peter >>>>> >>>>> On Fri, 2 Feb 2024, 22:56 Philip Brownell, <[log in to unmask]> >>>>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> I’m not desperate Peter. Desperation not in the equation. I’m just >>>>>> quoting Bill Maher as a kind of social experiment/ Rorschach test. You know >>>>>> what might a person say to this? And there you are. >>>>>> >>>>>> Phil >>>>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>>>> >>>>>> On Feb 2, 2024, at 3:48 PM, Peter Philippson < >>>>>> [log in to unmask]> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> You must be desperate Phil. >>>>>> >>>>>> On the one hand there are people trying to turn America into a >>>>>> fascist theocracy, invading the seats of power and threatening to kill >>>>>> those they disagree with, threatening democracy, achieving the legal a >>>>>> system, or denying climate emergencies while parts of America burns. On the >>>>>> other hand there are some people whose proprioceptive sense of themselves >>>>>> is of a different gender to their outer physical appearance. I know, let's >>>>>> find a form of weasel words that makes them as bad as each other. >>>>>> >>>>>> Desperate indeed! >>>>>> >>>>>> Peter >>>>>> >>>>>> On Fri, 2 Feb 2024, 15:46 Philip Brownell, < >>>>>> [log in to unmask]> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> Bill Maher: "When historians look back in a hundred years, if we're >>>>>>> still here, I don't think they're going to divide the country like we do >>>>>>> into these two camps. They're going to say: As a *people*, they >>>>>>> were obnoxious. It happens in different forms on both sides. As a people, >>>>>>> they didn't believe in science. On the right, they think global warming is >>>>>>> a hoax or whatever nonsense they believe about that. And on the left, they >>>>>>> think men can have babies. That's what they'll say. They'll say, ‘As a >>>>>>> people, they just lost their s--t.’” >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> ______________ Gstalt-L is an independent eCommunity of people >>>>>>> interested in gestalt therapy theory and its various applications. Its >>>>>>> public archives can be found at >>>>>>> http://listserv.icors.org/scripts/wa-ICORS.exe?A0=GSTALT-L, and >>>>>>> subscriptions can be managed by clicking on "Subscriber's Corner," which is >>>>>>> found at the archives. >>>>>> >>>>>> ______________ Gstalt-L is an independent eCommunity of people >>>>>> interested in gestalt therapy theory and its various applications. Its >>>>>> public archives can be found at >>>>>> http://listserv.icors.org/scripts/wa-ICORS.exe?A0=GSTALT-L,and >>>>>> subscriptions can be managed by clicking on "Subscriber's Corner," which is >>>>>> found at the archives. >>>>>> >>>>>> ______________ Gstalt-L is an independent eCommunity of people >>>>>> interested in gestalt therapy theory and its various applications. Its >>>>>> public archives can be found at >>>>>> http://listserv.icors.org/scripts/wa-ICORS.exe?A0=GSTALT-L,and >>>>>> subscriptions can be managed by clicking on "Subscriber's Corner," which is >>>>>> found at the archives. >>>>> >>>>> ______________ Gstalt-L is an independent eCommunity of people >>>>> interested in gestalt therapy theory and its various applications. Its >>>>> public archives can be found at >>>>> http://listserv.icors.org/scripts/wa-ICORS.exe?A0=GSTALT-L, and >>>>> subscriptions can be managed by clicking on "Subscriber's Corner," which is >>>>> found at the archives. >>>>> >>>>> ______________ Gstalt-L is an independent eCommunity of people >>>>> interested in gestalt therapy theory and its various applications. Its >>>>> public archives can be found at >>>>> http://listserv.icors.org/scripts/wa-ICORS.exe?A0=GSTALT-L, and >>>>> subscriptions can be managed by clicking on "Subscriber's Corner," which is >>>>> found at the archives. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Peter (Philippson) >>>> [log in to unmask] >>>> ______________ Gstalt-L is an independent eCommunity of people >>>> interested in gestalt therapy theory and its various applications. Its >>>> public archives can be found at >>>> http://listserv.icors.org/scripts/wa-ICORS.exe?A0=GSTALT-L, and >>>> subscriptions can be managed by clicking on "Subscriber's Corner," which is >>>> found at the archives. >>>> >>>> >>>> ______________ Gstalt-L is an independent eCommunity of people >>>> interested in gestalt therapy theory and its various applications. Its >>>> public archives can be found at >>>> http://listserv.icors.org/scripts/wa-ICORS.exe?A0=GSTALT-L, and >>>> subscriptions can be managed by clicking on "Subscriber's Corner," which is >>>> found at the archives. >>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Peter (Philippson) >>> [log in to unmask] >>> ______________ Gstalt-L is an independent eCommunity of people >>> interested in gestalt therapy theory and its various applications. Its >>> public archives can be found at >>> http://listserv.icors.org/scripts/wa-ICORS.exe?A0=GSTALT-L, and >>> subscriptions can be managed by clicking on "Subscriber's Corner," which is >>> found at the archives. >>> >>> ______________ Gstalt-L is an independent eCommunity of people >>> interested in gestalt therapy theory and its various applications. Its >>> public archives can be found at >>> http://listserv.icors.org/scripts/wa-ICORS.exe?A0=GSTALT-L, and >>> subscriptions can be managed by clicking on "Subscriber's Corner," which is >>> found at the archives. >>> >>> >>> ______________ Gstalt-L is an independent eCommunity of people >>> interested in gestalt therapy theory and its various applications. Its >>> public archives can be found at >>> http://listserv.icors.org/scripts/wa-ICORS.exe?A0=GSTALT-L, and >>> subscriptions can be managed by clicking on "Subscriber's Corner," which is >>> found at the archives. >> >> >> >> -- >> Peter (Philippson) >> [log in to unmask] >> ______________ Gstalt-L is an independent eCommunity of people interested >> in gestalt therapy theory and its various applications. Its public archives >> can be found at >> http://listserv.icors.org/scripts/wa-ICORS.exe?A0=GSTALT-L, and >> subscriptions can be managed by clicking on "Subscriber's Corner," which is >> found at the archives. >> >> >> ______________ Gstalt-L is an independent eCommunity of people interested >> in gestalt therapy theory and its various applications. Its public archives >> can be found at >> http://listserv.icors.org/scripts/wa-ICORS.exe?A0=GSTALT-L, and >> subscriptions can be managed by clicking on "Subscriber's Corner," which is >> found at the archives. > > > > -- > Peter (Philippson) > [log in to unmask] > ______________ Gstalt-L is an independent eCommunity of people interested > in gestalt therapy theory and its various applications. Its public archives > can be found at > http://listserv.icors.org/scripts/wa-ICORS.exe?A0=GSTALT-L, and > subscriptions can be managed by clicking on "Subscriber's Corner," which is > found at the archives. > > > ______________ Gstalt-L is an independent eCommunity of people interested > in gestalt therapy theory and its various applications. Its public archives > can be found at > http://listserv.icors.org/scripts/wa-ICORS.exe?A0=GSTALT-L, and > subscriptions can be managed by clicking on "Subscriber's Corner," which is > found at the archives. > > ______________ Gstalt-L is an independent eCommunity of people interested > in gestalt therapy theory and its various applications. Its public archives > can be found at > http://listserv.icors.org/scripts/wa-ICORS.exe?A0=GSTALT-L, and > subscriptions can be managed by clicking on "Subscriber's Corner," which is > found at the archives. > > ______________ Gstalt-L is an independent eCommunity of people interested > in gestalt therapy theory and its various applications. Its public archives > can be found at > http://listserv.icors.org/scripts/wa-ICORS.exe?A0=GSTALT-L, and > subscriptions can be managed by clicking on "Subscriber's Corner," which is > found at the archives. > > ______________ Gstalt-L is an independent eCommunity of people interested > in gestalt therapy theory and its various applications. Its public archives > can be found at > http://listserv.icors.org/scripts/wa-ICORS.exe?A0=GSTALT-L, and > subscriptions can be managed by clicking on "Subscriber's Corner," which is > found at the archives. > > > ______________ Gstalt-L is an independent eCommunity of people interested > in gestalt therapy theory and its various applications. Its public archives > can be found at > http://listserv.icors.org/scripts/wa-ICORS.exe?A0=GSTALT-L, and > subscriptions can be managed by clicking on "Subscriber's Corner," which is > found at the archives. > > ______________ Gstalt-L is an independent eCommunity of people interested > in gestalt therapy theory and its various applications. Its public archives > can be found at > http://listserv.icors.org/scripts/wa-ICORS.exe?A0=GSTALT-L, and > subscriptions can be managed by clicking on "Subscriber's Corner," which is > found at the archives. > > > > ______________ Gstalt-L is an independent eCommunity of people interested > in gestalt therapy theory and its various applications. Its public archives > can be found at > http://listserv.icors.org/scripts/wa-ICORS.exe?A0=GSTALT-L, and > subscriptions can be managed by clicking on "Subscriber's Corner," which is > found at the archives. > > ______________ Gstalt-L is an independent eCommunity of people interested > in gestalt therapy theory and its various applications. Its public archives > can be found at > http://listserv.icors.org/scripts/wa-ICORS.exe?A0=GSTALT-L, and > subscriptions can be managed by clicking on "Subscriber's Corner," which is > found at the archives. > > > ______________ Gstalt-L is an independent eCommunity of people interested > in gestalt therapy theory and its various applications. Its public archives > can be found at > http://listserv.icors.org/scripts/wa-ICORS.exe?A0=GSTALT-L, and > subscriptions can be managed by clicking on "Subscriber's Corner," which is > found at the archives. -- Peter (Philippson) [log in to unmask] ______________ Gstalt-L is an independent eCommunity of people interested in gestalt therapy theory and its various applications. Its public archives can be found at http://listserv.icors.org/scripts/wa-ICORS.exe?A0=GSTALT-L, and subscriptions can be managed by clicking on "Subscriber's Corner," which is found at the archives.