From Wikipedia: *Modernism* is a philosophical <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philosophy>, religious <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Modernism_in_the_Catholic_Church>, and art movement <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Art_movement> that arose from broad transformations in Western society <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Western_world> during the late 19th and early 20th centuries. The movement reflected a desire for the creation of new forms of art, philosophy, and social organization which reflected the newly emerging industrial world <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Industrial_society>, including features such as urbanization <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Urbanization>, architecture, new technologies, and war. Artists attempted to depart from traditional forms of art, which they considered outdated or obsolete. The poet Ezra Pound <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ezra_Pound>'s 1934 injunction to "Make it New" was the touchstone of the movement's approach. Modernist innovations included abstract art <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abstract_art>, the stream of consciousness <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stream_of_consciousness> novel, montage cinema <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Montage_(filmmaking)>, atonal <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atonality> and twelve-tone <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Twelve-tone_technique> music, divisionist <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Divisionism> painting and modern architecture <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Modern_architecture>. Which bit of this had any particular connection with Hitler and Stalin? Peter On Thu, 15 Feb 2024 at 19:26, Dan Bloom <[log in to unmask]> wrote: > :) > > There is no turning away from the fact that modernism failed. Hitler and > Stalin, ironically, were high water marks. Ideologies on steroids. > > Dan > > On Feb 15, 2024, at 2:21 PM, Peter Philippson <[log in to unmask]> > wrote: > > Phil, > > Show me some left violence in Britain or the USA that comes anywhere near > the killing of people in a synagogue, the threat to hang Pelosi, the > insurrection on Jan 6th, etc. > > Modernism failed: it produced the United Nations, the Geneva Convention, > the National Health Service, gay liberation. The 'post-secular' produced > Putin's, Modi's and Iran's religious bigotry, and the bigotry of the > fundamentalist Christian and Jewish churches Just saying it doesn't make > it true. Show me a modernist who wants to kill people who disagree with > them, to fight a war against civilians etc. > > That's the trouble with religion: start with wonder at the universe, and > end up killing people. > > Peter > > On Thu, 15 Feb 2024 at 19:12, Philip Brownell <[log in to unmask]> > wrote: > >> Dear John, >> Are you a crazy leftist? I doubt it. >> >> The real issue I suspect for you is in the assertions I’ve made before >> about post-secularism and its implications for the ideas inherent to the >> Enlightenment. Given that you value the Enlightenment, at any given moment, >> depending on the crowd and event, you might even find yourself standing up >> against left leaning violence (violence here to include intimidation of >> people and aggressive interruption of their free speech). >> >> I could get into very tall grass and go on and on and on trying to >> present the argument for post-secularism and it’s implications for >> politics, international relations, economics, sociology, psychology (as in >> research), and psychotherapy. I would not be able to do the topic justice >> in this limited media (email). I am writing a book about it. But that’s >> going to be completed later on. If you want to read about the topic, try >> the following: >> >> >> - Post-Secular Society (Mynas, Lassandder, & Utriainen (Eds). >> Routledge, 2012 >> - Explorations in Post-Secular Metaphysics. (Bengtson). Palgrave >> McMillan, 2015 >> - Post-Secularism and International Relations, (Mavelli & Wilson, in >> Routledge Handbook of Religion and Politics) Routledge, 2023 (available >> online through the university of Groningen— >> https://core.ac.uk/reader/148314810) >> - Enter the Post-Secular (Rethinking the Secular), by Michele Dillon ( >> https://tif.ssrc.org/2012/08/16/enter-the-post-secular/) >> >> >> As I said, the subject is huge and not simple. That is post-secularism >> could just as easily be seen to champion ideas inherent to the >> Enlightenment. But it is no uncommon to see people questioning some of the >> ideas of the Enlightenment that resulted in modernity, because modernity >> failed. We see, for instance, Husserl writing against what some these days >> would call “scientism” and others just plain old positivism (which he also >> identified with a naturalistic attitude). That attitude is still alive in >> experimental psychology. >> >> I am attaching three documents some may find interesting. All this >> “stuff” relates to the updating of the Enlightenment. >> >> Phil >> >> ______________ Gstalt-L is an independent eCommunity of people interested >> in gestalt therapy theory and its various applications. Its public archives >> can be found at >> http://listserv.icors.org/scripts/wa-ICORS.exe?A0=GSTALT-L, and >> subscriptions can be managed by clicking on "Subscriber's Corner," which is >> found at the archives. >> ______________ Gstalt-L is an independent eCommunity of people interested >> in gestalt therapy theory and its various applications. Its public archives >> can be found at >> http://listserv.icors.org/scripts/wa-ICORS.exe?A0=GSTALT-L, and >> subscriptions can be managed by clicking on "Subscriber's Corner," which is >> found at the archives. >> ______________ Gstalt-L is an independent eCommunity of people interested >> in gestalt therapy theory and its various applications. Its public archives >> can be found at >> http://listserv.icors.org/scripts/wa-ICORS.exe?A0=GSTALT-L, and >> subscriptions can be managed by clicking on "Subscriber's Corner," which is >> found at the archives. >> >> >> On Feb 13, 2024, at 10:00 AM, john wymore <[log in to unmask]> wrote: >> >> ATTN: Phil >> >> >> >> Oh my goodness. Am I one? Could be, I guess. After all, I live in and >> am a citizen of what is known as a liberal democracy. It is that because >> it was founded on principles of The Enlightenment which are said to be >> secularism, reason, social juistice, tolerance . The Constitution , its >> Preamble, and the Declaration of Independance codifiy them. The >> Revolution, the Civl War, the Civil Rights Movement, the Equal Rights >> Amendment (which I think has still not been ratified) represent our moral >> commitmenmt. And confrom our liberal values. So any American loyal and >> committed to those values is just a middle of the road American, a >> centrist. What exactly then is a crazy leftist ? >> >> JW >> ______________ Gstalt-L is an independent eCommunity of people interested >> in gestalt therapy theory and its various applications. Its public archives >> can be found at >> http://listserv.icors.org/scripts/wa-ICORS.exe?A0=GSTALT-L, and >> subscriptions can be managed by clicking on "Subscriber's Corner," which is >> found at the archives. >> >> >> ______________ Gstalt-L is an independent eCommunity of people interested >> in gestalt therapy theory and its various applications. Its public archives >> can be found at >> http://listserv.icors.org/scripts/wa-ICORS.exe?A0=GSTALT-L, and >> subscriptions can be managed by clicking on "Subscriber's Corner," which is >> found at the archives. > > > > -- > Peter (Philippson) > [log in to unmask] > ______________ Gstalt-L is an independent eCommunity of people interested > in gestalt therapy theory and its various applications. Its public archives > can be found at > http://listserv.icors.org/scripts/wa-ICORS.exe?A0=GSTALT-L, and > subscriptions can be managed by clicking on "Subscriber's Corner," which is > found at the archives. > > > ______________ Gstalt-L is an independent eCommunity of people interested > in gestalt therapy theory and its various applications. Its public archives > can be found at > http://listserv.icors.org/scripts/wa-ICORS.exe?A0=GSTALT-L, and > subscriptions can be managed by clicking on "Subscriber's Corner," which is > found at the archives. -- Peter (Philippson) [log in to unmask] ______________ Gstalt-L is an independent eCommunity of people interested in gestalt therapy theory and its various applications. Its public archives can be found at http://listserv.icors.org/scripts/wa-ICORS.exe?A0=GSTALT-L, and subscriptions can be managed by clicking on "Subscriber's Corner," which is found at the archives.