[-----Original Message----- From: [log in to unmask] To: [log in to unmask] Sent: Mon, Jun 15, 2009 9:28 pm Subject: Freedom of Interpretation, Haruna.] Evian.

Evian my dear, I tried to afford sombre peace in honour of the arrested Journalists in Gambia but no, you can't observe a week of silence here if your life depended on it. And you know after pouncing on me, I'm not gonna let you roam about in ignorant bliss. So here goes. And please can we observe another day or two's peace here except to stand behind those journalists, at least until they're relieved of ominous questioning?

I want to begin with your subject heading: Freedom of Interpretation.
The English Language is a very difficult language in that it is taken into account the speaker/user is adequately aware and informed of the culture that produced the language. The law codes also grew out of that culture. In our extant conversation regarding Netanyahu's speech, INTERPRETATION takes on a technical meaning. A legal meaning if you like. Considering the grave matter that is the the subject of the bulk of his speech (Ceasing of settlement construction, Resolution of Palestinian Refugee status, A two-state solution to decades' old conflict and turmoil, the security of the state of Israel, etc.), and because the original speech was made in a language other than English, INTERPRETATION is legally burdened. Any interpretation that veers away from the literal translation of the speech is given to conjecture and malignant slander and libel. Or=2
0more sinister, misrepresentation of material fact. Fact that directly affects the lives of whole peoples. That is why Evian and in this instance, NO-ONE has the right or Freedom of INTERPRETATION. Netanyahu did not mention anywhere in his speech that "he accepts the two-state solution" as that term is defined. Any such interpretation is fraud and misrepresentation of fact.

With this primer, I will share ideas with you and I will use your own notes to bring further clarity in places. This affords us another TEACHABLE moment. Thank you for the opportunity.







[Haruna cautioned me: "Evian I want you to be very careful here." Ok grand-dad, I also hope that you will stop
using that despicable 'F' word in public.] Evian.

I regret Evian that I cannot promise you that I will not say Fuck in public anymore. I might reduce the frequency
with which I use the word because it seems to insense you and other, but that's as far as I can go for you. I do
hope that my intransigence will not deter you from the caution I advised of you. I did not place a condition on
your ascent to it and you are free to act on it or disregard it. It is inconsequential to me.

[Such utterances are only to be expected from uncouth ones.] Evian.

You must consider me uncouth then Evian. I beg your pardon in advance of my further use of the word. What amazes
me is how a language, any language, can pack so much punch in 4 of its alphabets. My affinity for literature will not
allow me to aban
don any such virulent word, no matter the language, Yaa meeboon.

["You are taking the BBC reporter's interpretation as Netanyahu's position." Haruna
No I am not. It's a mere coincidence that my interpretation of the Israeli PM's speech and that of the BBC reporter
are the same.]
 
Very well. But you both could be wrong as was the case here. If a Palestinian Refugee packs up from Jordan and
heads for Haifa or Bait Jalla on account of that BBC reporter's erroneous interpretation, voila, your crimes have
now led to more general decrepitude. And you will be held liable. De-minimis, the dishonesty will cost the
reporter some readers of BBC News. Evian is too insignificant to be worried about. He is only significant to
Haruna. And that is why I cautioned you.

[That's the Queen's English for you.] Evian.

The queen's English is like a loaded gun. It can kill and maim. We are informed journalists get arrested all the
time for the inappropriate use of it. That is because Journalists, unlike Evian, matter in life and circumstance.

[Remember that I shared my perspective of his speech with you before you in turn shared the BBC reporter's
perception of the same speech.] Evian.

That should be terribly insignificant. And if you look at the date and time of publication of the reporter's article
and the date and time of your attestation and your location, it arguable that you did not receive it from that
same article or other article from another publication. The bottom line is; no matter where yo
u got it from
(because it was not original assessment from Evian) it was WRONG, FALSE, UNTRUTHFUL, and Malignant.
I on the other hand only searched for the news after you shared "your assessment" of Netanyahu's speech and I
was shocked to encounter the BBC reporter's peddling of your same exact words. Read the sentence below
Netanyahu's picture in the article. Some coincidence?????? And from Evian who loathes Israel. Remmember
credibility does not accrue from plagiarism or peddling work product of a more credible organisation. I
encourage you to exercise more caution in harvesting news.

["This is where discernments come in. I only offered the BBC news report to afford you more perspective on
what PALESTINIANS think of Netanyahu's speech." Haruna. Need I therefore state that I read about the
reaction of some key Palestinian Authority as well as Hamas officials to the Israeli PM's speech well before you
shared with me the BBC report?] Evian.

That fact is immaterial to our concerns and it was not readily discernible therefore that you understood the
reaction of "some key Palestinian Authority as well as Hamas officials to the Israeli PM's speech". If you did, and
you still advanced that Netanyahu accepted the two-state solution, then you are sharing with us your completion
of the crime of Contemptuous mis-representation of fact and potentially grievous ignorance. Provided you never
knew that, which I am willing to concede it may have been. That you truly did not recognize the "error" in
interpretation.

["This is wha
t I was afraid of Evian. Netanyahu did not accept nor endorse The TWO-STATE solution. Be very
careful." Haruna. I would be extra careful! I still maintain that in principle Nethanyahu had alas grudgingly accepted
that the inevitable would have to be: A Palestinian State alongside Israel.] Evian.

NO. NO. NO. Evian, just let it go and accept that you had erred in interpretation. If you read Netanyahu's speech
again. And slowly please. You will notice that he indeed mentioned "A Palestinian state". So I suppose as you
knead your erroneous interpretation, you will come ever close to the correct interpretation. However, you risk
further digging your ditch as you have begun to do here. This is because when Netanyahu mentioned
"A Palestinian state" he was looking forward to a day when there will be a palestinian state, and only after
Hamas and the Arab nations recognize the state of Israel, and assist to develop the prospect of such a
Palestinian state INSIDE of ISRAEL. Not alongside Israel whose capital remains absolutely Jerusalem.

[Nethanyahu's sincerity to the two-State solution could however be doubted given his insistence on certain key
issues and as expected his preconditions are definitely unacceptable to the Palestinian nation who deserve and
quest for genuine Statehood not an autonomous nationhood.] Evian.

NO NO NO. Netanyahu did not accept nor endorse the TWO-STATE solution. So you may not talk about his
sincerity or lack thereof to that TWO-STATE solution if the man did not indicate acceptance of i
t. You see what
I mean Evian don't you??? Before we can determine his sincerity to the idea, he has to first indicate some level
of affinity to it.

[Negotiations are however the only way to resolve the matter. Violence have not been able to.] Evian.

Evian, I agree with you that I prefer a negotiated settlement of the issue but not for the same reason as you,
which is that violence has not been able to settle the matter. I think violence is a counter-productive method
to solve any matter. So I chose NEGOTIATIONS from the git go. Violence is always wrong-headed. Violence
should only be used to defend one's LIFE against unprovoked violence. I belive in that.

["It is what Netanyahu says and means and what Palestinians think of what Netanyahu means." Haruna
Well the Israeli PM had spoken and the Palestinians have reacted and so would the rest of the world have their
say. Diverse viewpoints as usual.] Evian.

I accept. Very good. The diverse viewpoints may not however be based on misrepresentation of fact. Thank
you Evian.

["Just read Netanyahu's speech again and share with us what he said. Not what you or the BBC reporter
THINK he said." Haruna. My current level of understanding on the Speech seems to suffice for me but would
still appreciate should you share with me any further discernments to be acquired about the substance of the
speech.] Evian.

Again, I'm not and I wouldn't ask you for discernments of the speech when you do not know exactly what the
speaker SAID. One way20out of your quandry would be to share the translated speech here with us and from a
credible translator. Not the BBC. I'm confident Netanyahu's office has provided an English version of the
speech. ANd they are the most credible translators of their speech. How about it Evian. Then you and I can
seek further discernments from it.

[And please, please do not bore me further with your foiled linkage of Mali's war with terrorists to your desire
for Mali to establish diplomatic relations with Israel; Mauritania's welcomed severance of diplomatic with
Israel and the urging of a redeemed chief terrorist.] Evian.

I do not understand the immediate above. I think in the last line however you meant to write "Israel AT the
urging of a redeemed chief terrorist". As for "FOILED LINKAGE", I suppose if it is foiled, it is now therefore of
no consequence. I beg leave to retire from that linkage then.

[I know you initiated the thread. So therefore anything goes???] Evian.

NO NO NO. Not anything goes. But anything I say goes, GOES. This is the Queen's English. You are making
significant improvements but I encourage you to retire from this issue of Netanyahu's speech. Or I will disown
your arse. Go away gaddamit. Haruna. What do you think about Sharia for Gambia Evian??? Lemme know
Lemme know. You believe that Saloum guy??? Sittin at a friggin Maal concert and then he tells us he didn't
wanna rub it into Dukuray, Galleh, and my friggin self??? I mean with friends like that, who needs enemies???
The Afri
kanski.


Bailo




--- On Mon, 15/6/09, Haruna Darbo <[log in to unmask]> wrote:


From: Haruna Darbo <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Evian. The people who matter for Palestine have now reacted to Netanyahu's speech.
To: [log in to unmask]
Date: Monday, 15 June, 2009, 4:32 PM


[From: [log in to unmask] To: [log in to unmask] Sent: Mon, Jun 15, 2009 10:12 am
Subject: Re: Evian. The people who matter for Palestine have now reacted to Netanyahu's speech.






Haruna, You opined earlier that: "That speech by Netanyahu does not advance the two-state solutiuon.Netanyahu gave an impassioned speech to the people of Israel and demonstrated his willingness for more autonomy for the Palestinian people in matters of culture and religion. This is not the same as moving expeditiously toward a Palestinian state."] Opined by Haruna. Represented by Evian.

[Subsequently, you shared with us a BBC report stating that:
Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu, in a major policy speech, accepted the creation of a Palestinian state but only if it was demilitarised.] Interpretation of Netanyahu's speech by BBC reporter. Represented by Evian.

[If for the first time the PM of  Israel have accepted the creation of a Palestinian State,] Evian.

Prime Minister Netanyahu, by his speech, did not accept nor endorse the extant two-state solution. Evian I want you to be very careful here. You are taking the BBC reporte r's interpretation as Netanyahu's position. This is where discernments come in. I only offered the
 BBC news report to afford you more perspective on what PALESTINIANS think of Netanyahu's speech. Not what the BBC reporter or editor thinks about it. That is inconsequential and can be misleading. It may be valuable to review the two-state solution and then read Netanyahu's speech again, unedited.

[does that acceptance not therefore in any way advance the two-state solution?] Evian.

This is what I was afraid of Evian. Netanyahu did not accept nor endorse The TWO-STATE solution. Be very careful.

[I think it does but you may still think otherwise.] Evian.

No No No. Its not what you think or what I think in this instance. It is what Netanyahu says and means and what Palestinians think of what Netanyahu means. Remember the agreement will have to be ratified by these two parties and as much as you and I wish and desire, we are not terribly significant to the agreement. So it is important we educate ourselves on the detail before we unduly malign goodwill for the effort. Just read Netanyahu's speech again and share with us what he said. Not what you or the BBC reporter THINK he said.

[However, Nethanyahu's pre-conditions for the establishment of a Palestinian State are outrightly unacceptable to those that matter most.] Evian.

That is why it is self-evident that Netanyahu is not advancing the two-state solution. It was a play on words and an appeasement speec h for his coalition government in Israel. It had nothing to do with the creation of a CONTIGUOUS Palestinian state.

[That's wh
at negotiations ought to resolve.] Evian.

Evian, certain things are non-negotiable. two of those are a Palestinian State and an Israeli state. Now some things are negotiable like the process of cease and desist on the settlements and the regime of security for the state of Israel given her inordinately hostile and belligerent neighbours. So be careful what you begin to negotiate for.

Now I want to ask you a question:
If Israel engages in settlements because of natural growth, do you think Mali affording Israel 100,000 hectares for the establishment of Malisrael can help in ameliorating that need for the people of Israel and at the same time remove some obstacle to a two-state solution? I want you to consider that Mali has gifted 100,000 hectares to Libya when Gaddafi requested it to "develop North Mali Agriculture". This was before we learned bahanga was accorded asylum in a cottage in South Libya. Even if you don't think a prospective Malisrael is a good idea, do you think a land-grant to Israel, either by Misera, Jordan, Sooriyya, or Sa'oudiyya could relieve natural growth pressures of Israel and replace them with Palestinian natural growth? Don't rush to answer this question. Think about it a bit. It is more profound than it seems. 

[The direct descendant of Prophet Abraham could only co-exist in peace if justice prevails between them.] E vian.

I should think so Evian. For any descendants of any family for that matter. Peaceful Co-existence is only possible when mutually recognizable just
ice prevails among them.

[I now share the same status with most Palestinians. My choice.] Evian.

What're you talking about??? Why do you speaking in tongues when you speak with me. How do you share the same status as Palestinians??? And how would that be your choice??? Evian are you alright???? I thought you'd be in Nzerekore by now but information I'm getting from there is that you haven't made it there yet? What's going on men??? Talk to me. And don't speak in tongues with me. Or just sanitize the info thru JDAM Wandifaa. I don't want to miss significant clues for your pannafore. Haruna. Now go away and help support Mali's offensive against armed idiots. I don't wanna hear another word from you about Netanyahu except to answer the questions I posed to you on the matter. I will expect you to speak on Mali's war against Al-Qaa'Ida bandits.

Bailo

--- On Mon, 15/6/09, Haruna Darbo <[log in to unmask]> wrote:


From: Haruna Darbo <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Evian. The people who matter for Palestine have now reacted to Netanyahu's speech.
To: [log in to unmask]
Date: Monday, 15 June,=2 02009, 2:25 PM








Tell me what you think now. Haruna. Courtesy BBC News.
Palestinians dismiss Israel plan







 

Benjamin Netanyahu: 'No-one in Israel wants war'




Palestinians have rejected the Israeli prime minister's conditions for a two-state solution, saying he has "paralysed" the peace process.
Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu, in a major policy speech, acc
epted the creation of a Palestinian state but only if it was demilitarised.

Palestinian leader Mahmoud Abbas's spokesman said his comments challenged Palestinian, Arab and US positions.

But the US said Mr Netanyahu's stance was an "important step forward".

In a landmark speech, weeks after US President Barack Obama urged him to agree a two-state plan, Mr Netanyahu said the Palestinians must accept Israel as a Jewish state.

He said a Palestinian state must have no army, no control of its air space and no way of smuggling in weapons.










 The peace process has been moving at the speed of a tortoise. Tonight, Netanyahu has flipped it over on its back




Saeb Erekat, Palestinian negotiator






 






His speech provoked anger among Palestinian officials.

Mr Abbas's spokesman Nabil Abu Rdainah said: "Netanyahu's remarks have sabotaged all initiatives, paralysed all efforts being made and challenges the Palestinian, Arab and American positions," Reuters news agency reported.

Palestinian negotiator Saeb Erekat said the speech "closed the door to permanent status negotiations".

"We ask the world not to be fooled by his use of the term Palestinian state because he qualified it.

"He declared Jerusalem the capital of Israel, said refugees would not be negotiated and that settlements would remain."

< /div>








Tim Franks, BBC News, Jerusalem





Benjamin Netanyahu has shifted. He has used the word "state", when it comes=2
0to Palestinian self-rule.


In another deeper sense, though, there has been no shift. Mr Netanyahu's closest aides have been saying for months that they have two over-arching pre-conditions: a public Palestinian acceptance of Israel as the nation-state of the Jewish people, and a complete demilitarisation of any future Palestinian entity.

And Mr Netanyahu tersely dismissed the US call for an end to settlement expansion: these people have to live, he said. He described them as "pioneers" and "principled".

This is a speech which will shore up the prime minister's position within his right-wing coalition. It is, whatever you think of the rights and wrongs of it, a powerful forehand deep into the back court of the Americans. It will be fascinating to see when and how the Americans return the ball.






Mr Erekat added: "The peace process has been moving at the speed of a tortoise. Tonight, Netanyahu has flipped it over on its back."

In Gaza, Hamas spokesman Sami Abu Zuhri described the speech as "racist" and called on Arab nations to "form stronger opposition" towards Israel.

But the White House called the policy outline an "important step forward", as did French Foreign Minister Bernard Kouchner.

A White House statement said Mr Obama "believes this solution can and must ensure both Israel's security and the fulfilment of the Palestinians' legitimate aspirations for a viable state, and he welcomes Prime Minister Netanyahu's endorsement of that goal".

The BBC's Sarah Morris in Washington s
ays Mr Netanyahu's comments have provided a lot of encouragement to the White House, but it is uncertain whether they will be enough given the Israeli prime minister's refusal to budge on the issue of Jewish settlements.

The statement made no mention of Mr Netanyahu's demilitarisation caveat.

A potential stumbling block in any future peace deal - that of settlements - also went unmentioned in the statement, our correspondent adds.

'Collision course'

In his own keynote Middle East speech in Cairo on 4 June, Mr Obama stressed that he wanted all settlement activity to stop.

But Mr Netanyahu said settlers were not "enemies of peace" and did not move from his position of backing "natural growth" in existing settlements.

Former US President Jimmy Carter warned that the US and Israeli governments would be on a "collision course" if Israeli settlement activity continued in the West Bank.

The settlers group Yesha condemned Mr Netanyahu's speech: "We deplore that the prime minister has agreed to the creation of a demilitarised Palestinian state after he has said for years that such a state, even demilitarised, would be a threat to Israel."








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