Haruna,
I was not unhappy with you. Like you, I was also sad about the Lesbian union in Mali. And please stop attempting to redefine 'marriage'. Ok, first I need to consult Wikipedia; perhaps the term had since been redefined to cater for new realities. Are you really sad about the Lesbian union in Mali? If so, why are you sad about it? Please don't be hard on me this time. You ought to realise that am still a student.
I am still happy with you. However do not expect a kiss from me. Tell Celestine to go away! How dare he?
Bailo
--- On Wed, 3/3/10, Haruna Darbo <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
From: Haruna Darbo <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: The first recorded Lesbian marriage in Mangambougou, Mali. I say happy ga
To: [log in to unmask]
Date: Wednesday, 3 March, 2010, 18:26
In view of this sober and serene teaching of our prophet (yours and mine)
JDAM, Evian, I cease fire. I will forgive your prior trespasses against me sine
die. This doesn't mean you are now free to trespass against yours truly anew.
Word!!! I am happy again. Bailo are you happy with me again??? You'd better not
say no!
Haruna. I am still sad that Malians engage in homosexual marriage. I will
attempt to yield greater perspective for the alternative: heterosexual marriage.
Variously when the opportunity arises. Allahu Wakubaru.
In a message dated 3/3/2010 1:04:49 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
[log in to unmask] writes:
"Do you not know that the
unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom
of God? Do not
be deceived. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters,
nor
adulterers, nor homosexuals, nor sodomites, nor thieves,
nor
covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor
extortioners will
inherit the kingdom of God." (1 Co
6:9-10)
Bailo
Thank
you for your thoughts.
Your
"religious and cultural convictions as a Moslem" are not in doubt,
and I applaud your faith in the context of the Islamic
religion.
As
to "shunning" the "abomination" that, in your view, is
homosexuality, I concede you share that perspective with "millions
of peoples (Jews, Christians, Bahaians, Hindus, Rastafarians,
Atheists, etc) from all over the world".
Referring to
your original reaction therefore, there appears to be some
contextual difficult in your explicit equation
of homosexuality with "Western ... moral
decadence ...". Here again, I concede the widely held, if
erroneous view, that homosexuality is a "Western"
phenomenon. Your difficulty is that for practical purposes, Africa
is not the natural home of "Jews, Bahaians, or Hindus". In
that regard, is it not more plausible to view homosexuality as of
universal prevalence, as a human issue? Islamic teaching on the
subject appears to support the contention that as a failing,
homosexuality is a universal failing.
For
example, the universalism argument appears to be supported by the
fundamental precept that Mohammed (PBUH) is the last of God’s
prophets, and Islam, the perfection of religions. A careful
analysis of this central doctrinal tenet suggests that
notwithstanding its geographic delimitations at birth, the Islamic
message is for people the world over. The logic of this position
is that pronouncements on homosexuality, like the Quranic message
in its totality, addresses people in all corners of the world.
Again, a demonstration that as a
failing, homosexuality is a universal human failing in so far
as it inheres - even if among a tiny number - in societies the
world over.
On
homosexuality, the views of Christianity, and Judaism, are no
different to those of Islam, giving us a complete picture
of the Abrahamic progeny of religions on this divisive
issue. I take no issue with the views per se, but if their
practical effect is to discriminate against equal stakeholders in
Gambian public space, I reject any assault on homosexuality, and,
on homosexuals.
The
foregoing is merely illustrative of the universal prevalence of
homosexuality, and not a state of affairs that exemplifies
"Western
... moral decadence ...".
For
me, the thrust of any dispute regarding homosexuality lies in the
indefensibility of a differential application of a state’s police
power to similarly situated citizens. If YJ is permitted to stroll
our beautiful beaches with his female significant other, I see no
cogent reason why ATT Jr., and yourself, should be prohibited from
holding hands, and kissing, in broad daylight, if you so chose,
along Kairaba Avenue.
As
preliminaries, I remind you that notwithstanding the population's
overwhelming adherence to the Islamic faith, The Gambia
remains a secular state. In consequence of that basic
reality, no citizen must suffer for reasons rooted in religious
outrage.
Additionally,
the Constitution, at section 33, guarantees equal protection
under the law.
Overall,
my query is limited to whether fallible humans, in public life,
should sit in moral judgement on matters that are ultimately
between a person and God, especially when other vices,
clearly more common (see opening quotation), and
yet accepted as lifestyle choices, attract similar views
from our triology of Abrahamic religions. Would you terminate, or
alter, the dynamics of a significant relationship upon
discovering a friend, or family member, to be homosexual, if you
all along accepted his propensity for adultery and
fornication?
Please
refer to material below on what "The Epistle To The Hebrews" has
to say on the punishment for fornicators,
adulterers, and yes, homosexuals, and
decide whether we are justified in utilising public
power to ostracise people for what they do, behind closed doors,
and against God.
Needless
to say, I reject all public attempts at policing homosexuality.
Our
conflicting views on this needlessly divisive issue
notwithstanding, I see nothing to diminish my respect and
admiration for your courage on key questions of our public life.
LJDarbo
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"THE
EPISTLE TO THE
HEBREWS"
Fornicators And Adulterers God Will Judge
(13:4)
INTRODUCTION
1.
In today's society, the honor and sanctity of marriage is under
constant attack...
a. Divorce is
acceptable, made easy through "no-fault" laws
b.
Adultery is considered normal, faithfulness to one's spouse as
unrealistic
c.
Among religious and political leaders, many say that standards
against sexual immorality are
antiquated
2. Even in the church, sexual immorality is a
major problem evidenced
by...
a.
The high number of divorces among Christians
b.
The frequent reports sexual failings among preachers, elders,
and
other Christians
3.
This is not to say there are not those who still hold marriage in
high esteem...
a. Many people
still believe sex is for marriage, and marriage is
for life
b.
I've been blessed to have:
1)
The example of my wife's grandparents, married 77
years
2) The example of my
grandmother, widowed with six children
when
only 30
years old, remaining single for over fifty
years
3) Parents and in-laws who
both were married over 50 years
each
4) Three brothers, who
along with myself are still married to
our
first
wives
4. In truth, our culture today is not that much
different from the
society of the first
century...
a. Where divorce and remarriage was
rampant (women were known to
date events by their husbands; e.g., "Yes, that happened
during
husband
#5.")
b. Fornication was acceptable, adultery
barely frowned upon
5. But Christianity offers a true
contrast of standards regarding
morality...
a. Through clear and unequivocal
teaching - 1 Co 6:9-10; Ga
5:19-21;
Ep
5:3-5
b. The same sort of teaching is needed
today, which is why we need
to
carefully heed the text of today's
lesson:
"Marriage is
honorable among all, and the bed undefiled;
but
fornicators and adulterers
God will judge." (He 13:4)
6. The verb "is" is not in
the Greek, leading some to translate the
first
phrase as:
a. "Let marriage be held in honor among
all, and let the marriage
bed
be undefiled;" (NASV)
b. "Marriage should be
honored by all, and the marriage bed kept
pure" (NIV),
[Why should
we honor marriage, and keep the "marriage bed" (a euphemism
for
marital relations) pure? Because God will judge those who
violate
it!
To see how, let's first define the terms
used in the last half of this
verse...]
I.
DEFINITION OF TERMS
A.
"FORNICATORS"...
1. The
Greek word is pornos {por'-nos}, from which we get
"pornography"
2. It is a general
word for unlawful and immoral sexual
relationships
(Barclay)
3. It includes any
kind sex outside of marriage:
pre-marital,
extra-marital (adultery), homosexual, etc.
B. "ADULTERERS"...
1. The
Greek word is moichos
{moy-khos'}
2. It means to have
unlawful intercourse with another's wife or
husband
(Thayer)
a.
This may be while they are still
married...
b.
Or even AFTER they are divorced if not for the right
reason
- cf. Mt 5:32; 19:9
3 So a person can be guilty of adultery
either:
a. By
having relations with another's
spouse
b. By
marrying someone who
either:
1) Did not put their first spouse away for
fornication
2) Or was put away by their spouse for ANY
reason
C.
"GOD"...
1. The Supreme
Being, eternal and holy - Re
4:8
2. Omniscient and
Omnipresent - Ps 139:1-12
3. Loving, yet just - cf. Jn 3:16; He 10:30-31;
12:29
D. "WILL
JUDGE"...
1. The Greek word
is krino {kree'-no}
2.
"the act of condemning and decreeing (or inflicting) penalty
on one"
(Thayer)
[Marriage should be held in honor, because the
Bible makes it clear
that God will condemn and somehow inflict
penalty on those who are
fornicators and adulterers who do not
repent!
But why will God judge fornicators and
adulterers?]
II. WHY GOD WILL JUDGE FORNICATORS AND
ADULTERERS
A. BECAUSE THEY DESTROY
THE LIVES OF OTHERS...
1.
They destroy
marriages
a.
Either their own, by their infidelity (trust is often
destroyed)
b.
Or others, by committing adultery with another's
spouse
c.
Sexual immorality is a major cause of divorce, which God
hates - Mal 2:16
2. They
destroy
families
a.
Where divorce occurs, families are
shattered
b.
The children usually suffer the most, often with severe
emotional problems throughout their
lives
c. Jesus
warned about despising the needs of children - Mt
18:
5-7,10-11,14
3. They destroy
friendships
a.
Read carefully Pro
6:30-35
b.
It is difficult, if not impossible, to restore good
friendships after one has violated another's
spouse
B. BECAUSE THEY DESTROY THEIR OWN
LIVES...
1. Read carefully
Pro
5:1-14
a.
You lose your honor (your reputation is
destroyed)
b.
You lose your wealth (ever hear of
alimony?)
c.
You lose your health (via STDs, perhaps even
AIDS)
2. Adultery and
fornication is indeed a sin against your own
body
- cf.
1 Co
6:18
a.
There is emotional damage (wracking
guilt)
b.
There is social damage (ostracized by
others)
c.
There is physical damage (venereal disease)
C. BECAUSE THOSE WHO ARE CHRISTIANS ARE ESPECIALLY
GUILTY...
1. They have taken
members of the body of Christ and made them
members of a
harlot - 1 Co 6:15-16
2.
They have taken their body, a temple of the Holy Spirit, and
given it to a
child of the devil - 1 Co
6:19-20
3. As Christians,
who have
been...
a.
Made in the image of
God
b.
Redeemed by the blood of
Jesus
c. Made
a temple of the Holy
Spirit
...they
have allowed their lusts to bring them as low as
animals!
[When God's HIGHEST CREATION, because of purely
selfish reasons,
destroys marriages, families, friendship,
even their own selves, we can
understand why God WILL JUDGE
such, and why Paul wrote what he did to
the
Corinthians:
"Do you not know that the
unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom
of God?
Do not be deceived. Neither fornicators, nor
idolaters,
nor adulterers, nor homosexuals, nor
sodomites, nor thieves, nor
covetous, nor
drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will
inherit the kingdom of God." (1 Co 6:9-10)
But HOW will
God judge fornicators and adulterers?]
III. HOW GOD
WILL JUDGE FORNICATORS AND ADULTERERS
A. HE WILL JUDGE IN THE
FUTURE...
1. They will not
inherit the kingdom of God - 1 Co 6:9-10; Ep
5:
5-7
2. They will suffer
eternal torment - Re 21:8
B. BUT HE
ALSO JUDGES IN THE
PRESENT...
1. They become
God's enemies - cf. Ja
4:4
a.
While this passage likely speaks of spiritual adultery, it
would apply to literal adultery as
well
b.
Adulterers are estranged of God's fellowship, care and
love
c. True
peace and joy cannot be theirs
2. They receive in their own bodies what they rightfully deserve
- cf. Ro
1:24-27
a.
Those who engage in such immorality do indeed "receive in
themselves the penalty of their error" (e.g., syphilis,
gonorrhea, herpes,
AIDS)
b. But
such is only a FORETASTE of the torment fornicators
and
adulterers will receive, if they do not
repent!
CONCLUSION
1. There are many
good reasons to honor marriage and keep the
"marriage
bed" undefiled...
a. The
bond between a man and a woman whose relationship is built
upon trust and
love
b. The joy, peace, and love that children in
a strong family enjoy,
and
deserve
c. The value of strong families in shaping
our communities in which
we
live
2. But we have focused on God's judgment on those who
destroy this
important fabric of our society, and
how it gives new meaning to the
phrase "be sure
your sin will find you out" (Num 32:23)
a. It is almost impossible to keep immorality
secret
1) Physical infirmities
will more than likely bring it to the
surface
eventually
2) Or loose lips
will!
b. Even if one succeeds in hiding their
immorality in this life, not
so
in the life to come!
3. To close on a more positive note,
let's offer some hope for those
who have been
guilty of adultery and fornication...
a. You may
not be able to escape the physical consequences of
your
actions
b.
But you can be forgiven, and escape the eternal
consequences!
As we consider once again what Paul wrote to
the church at Corinth, a
city known for it loose
morals...
"Do you not know that the
unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom
of God?
Do not be deceived. Neither fornicators, nor
idolaters,
nor adulterers, nor homosexuals, nor
sodomites, nor thieves, nor
covetous, nor
drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will
inherit the kingdom of God." (1 Co 6:9-10)
We now
notice the next verse...
"And such were
some of you. But you were washed, but you were
sanctified, but you were justified in the name of the Lord
Jesus
and by the Spirit of our God." (1 Co
6:11)
The gospel of Christ promises wonderful blessings
to all sinners who
will come to Jesus in faith and
obedience!
Have you been "washed", "sanctified", and
"justified" in the name of
the Lord Jesus and by the Spirit of
our God? (Ac 2:38; 22:16; Ti 3:5)
--- On Tue, 2/3/10, bailo jallow
<[log in to unmask]> wrote:
From:
bailo jallow <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: The first
recorded Lesbian marriage in Mangambougou, Mali. I say happy
gammy!
To: [log in to unmask]
Date: Tuesday, 2 March,
2010, 16:22
LJD,
Your usual gentlemanly
approach of discussing issues of interest to you is
inspiring.
Before answering the
question that you posed me, I would like to state that my
position on homosexuality is foremost guided by my religious and
cultural convictions as a Moslem. As such, I believe that
homosexuality is an abomination to be shunned and not to be
encouraged. However, I also believe that the type of sexual
activities that consenting adults engage in within the confines
of their bedrooms or private domains should not fall within the
purview of any person or authority. What ought to concern
someone else is what is practiced or displayed in the public
arena.
I am please to have similar
sentiments on this issue with hundreds of millions of peoples
(Jews, Christians, Bahaians, Hindus, Rastafarians, Atheists,
etc) from all over the world.
Now regarding your question,
I would firmly discourage any local or external attempt towards
influencing Gambian laws to have homosexuality or same-sex
marriage recognised as perfectly legal. I do not however think
that anyone found guilty of such a vice should be ‘beheaded’.
Re-orientation in a correctional facility might be the best
solution.
In conclusion, I do not
support the legalisation of same sex marriages or homosexuality
from a moral, cultural and natural perspective.
Cheers
Bailo
--- On Mon, 1/3/10, Lamin Darbo
<[log in to unmask]> wrote:
From:
Lamin Darbo <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re:
The first recorded Lesbian marriage in Mangambougou, Mali. I
say happy gammy!
To: [log in to unmask]
Date:
Monday, 1 March, 2010, 1:44
Bailo
Assuming your position is accepted, what manner of
conversation would you recommend between The
Republic of The Gambia, and its homosexual community?
I am proceeding on the basis that like in the
Malian example, some members of homosexual
Gambia may insist on living with their significant
others in a marriage, or in relationships akin
to a marriage.
Is your concern, and, or rejection of
homosexuality restricted to moral
condemnation, or do you consider it proper for
the law to punitively intervene?
LJDarbo
--- On Sun, 28/2/10, bailo
jallow <[log in to unmask]>
wrote:
From:
bailo jallow
<[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: The
first recorded Lesbian marriage in Mangambougou, Mali.
I say happy gammy!
To:
[log in to unmask]
Date: Sunday, 28
February, 2010, 16:53
Haruna,
We cannot avoid
discussing the global context under which the
Lesbian union in Mali took place. Since our
World is categorised in terms of Westerners,
Easterners, Southerners and Northerners, then
what is the classification of those countries
that are spearheading the promotion of
homesexuality as universal human value/rights?
All I am saying based on real life
experiences is that the Africans in particular
should not accept the imposition of such vices
such as homosexuality upon us as human rights
values.
Bailo
---
On Sat, 27/2/10, Haruna Darbo
<[log in to unmask]>
wrote:
From:
Haruna Darbo
<[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: The
first recorded Lesbian marriage in Mangambougou,
Mali. I say happy gammy!
To:
[log in to unmask]
Date: Saturday,
27 February, 2010, 2:57
Okho Bailo! Why are you bringing western
countries into this? I agree with your sentiment
as far as decadence but it is about time we
place blame or glory where it belongs. Only
Mangambougou community and Mali are involved in
this. Let us speak about the rights or decadence
of the two individuals within the context of
their community. No western country encouraged
or discouraged this one Bailo. You were on the
roll for a minute and I was with you. The
problem is when we Africans commute our problems
and blames on other, we will never be inspired
to solve them or at least harness them for any
extraneous value.
Okho. You had me going for a while. Like
the energizer bunny. Until I saw western. Human
Rights is not the domain of western countries
again. You will come to realize all men are the
same and have similar desires, particularly
carnal and romantic. The reason why we haven't
entertained as much decadence as you see in the
west is simply because we have other more
mundane considerations for now...like breakfast,
lunch, dinner, hesal, firewood, Ramadan,
Lailatul Qadri, etcetera. Wait till we don't
have those worries anymore. You'll see decadence
like you've never seen before. Ghana and
Mali will be our test site for west
africa
I feel for Oko. The one man
army. Haruna.
-----Original
Message-----
From: bailo jallow
<[log in to unmask]>
To:
[log in to unmask]
Sent: Fri, Feb
26, 2010 6:52 pm
Subject: Re: The first
recorded Lesbian marriage in Mangambougou, Mali.
I say happy gammy!
Most Western countries have laws
banning polygamy yet these same governments lead
in condemning other countries that legislate
against pervasions such as homosexuality.
Talking about spreading moral decadence in the
world in the guise of human
rights!
Bailo
--- On Fri,
26/2/10, Haruna Darbo <[log in to unmask]>
wrote:
From:
Haruna Darbo <[log in to unmask]>
Subject:
The first recorded Lesbian marriage in
Mangambougou, Mali. I say happy gammy!
To: [log in to unmask]
Date:
Friday, 26 February, 2010, 3:45
Culled from AFRIBONE-CN / The AURORA
newspaper. Haruna. You know what comes next
don't you? These are some of the growing pains
of democracy. But total commitment to democracy
requires you let folk be as long as they do not
infringe on the rights of their fellows. I am
sad however. But I will accept it because they
have the right. I'd rather they do it out in the
open than have to hide their
consciences.
Mariage
homosexuel à la mairie de
Magnambougou
Deux femmes
officiellement unies pour le meilleur et le
pire
Ce que les gardiens du
temple redoutaient le plus est déjà arrivé au
Mali : L’union des homosexuel(le)s. Quand
bien même les textes aujourd’hui en vigueur dans
notre pays interdisent la pratique, ce couple a
trouvé la parade infaillible en célébrant son
union par le centre d’État Civil de
Magnamboubou.
Le mariage homosexuel par définition, est
une union célébrée entre deux personnes (homme
et femme) ayant la même tendance sexuelle. Il
s’agit, en clair, de l’union d’un homme d’avec
une femme (et non de deux hommes ou de deux
femmes eux ou elles) ayant les mêmes penchants
sexuels.
La nuance est de taille. Mais
aujourd’hui, force est d’admettre que le concept
a profondément évolué. Dans l’imaginaire
populaire, un mariage homo concerne deux
personnes de même sexe. C’est le cas à l’ordre
du jour ici.
L’une se fait appeler « B » et l’autre « F.C ». Selon toute
évidence, c’est « F.C » qui joue le
rôle d’époux. Elle réside en Suède, pays de
tolérance sexuelle par excellence. Quant à « B », elle vit dans la
capitale malienne à Magnambougou, dans une villa
que lui a généreusement offerte son
« mari » depuis la Suède.
Cette dernière, « F.C », ne lésine pas
sur les moyens. Elle est très riche et a
entrepris de faire expatrier son « épouse ».
Le couple s’est connu à travers Internet,
sur un site de rencontres. Depuis, elles n’ont
jamais arrêté de se fréquenter. C’est F.C qui
effectue régulièrement le déplacement sur
Bamako. Sur place, elle partage la même villa et
la même chambre que « B ». Un secret de
polichinelle pour les voisins du quartier
Magnambougou !
Mais comment pareille union a pu être
célébrée dans un pays où la pratique est
prohibée et, de surcroit, par une autorité
légitime, à savoir le maire du
quartier ?
C’est au mois de d’Octobre-Novembre que
le drôle mariage a été consacré, non au centre
d’État civil, mais à domicile. De source bien au
fait de l’histoire, un homme a pris la place de
« F.C » et les
papiers d’identité des deux époux ont été
délibérément falsifiés. Le choix du domicile
avait pour but de limiter la présence des
curieux.
Dans la législation malienne, rien
n’interdit la consécration d’une union civile à
domicile par un officier d’État civil. La
pratique se trouve cependant en porte-à-faux
avec le principe de la publicité du mariage
lequel constitue un acte public par
excellence.
En somme, le domicile est une propriété
privée dont l’accès peut être limité alors que
le mariage reste un acte public ouvert à tous.
En célébrant donc une union à domicile, les
époux peuvent restreindre l’accès de cette
cérémonie à caractère public. La stratégie s’est
avérée payante pour « B » et « F.C ». Seul(es) les
intimes, et quel(les) intimes, ont pu accéder ce
jour, à l’autel.
Le maire dont la bonne foi n’est pas en
cause, en tout cas, jusqu’à la preuve du
contraire, a tout simplement usé d’une
prérogative et a cautionné le fait.
Aujourd’hui, l’épouse « B », sur incitation
de son « mari » FC
cherche à s’expatrier en Suède où la pratique
des unions libres est reconnue. Au Mali, elle
n’a aucune valeur juridique puisque le code du
mariage précise bien que l’union est célébrée
entre homme et femme.
Un concept qui, malheureusement, connaît
aujourd’hui ses limites dans la mesure où la
science parvient dorénavant à faire changer le
sexe biologique d’une personne.
En somme, une femme peut désormais
s’octroyer les caractères secondaires mâles et
un homme de même par rapport aux attributs
femelles. Toute chose qui met à défaut le
principe malien selon lequel le mariage n’est
célébré qu’entre homme et femme… « De naissance »
n’aurait pas été de trop… Et si l’on revoyait
sérieusement ce fameux code du mariage, sans
passion, s’il vous plaît !
B.S.
Diarra
L’Aurore du 25 Février
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