Nyang
I don’t know your political alliance(s). Is no consequences for the big picture. Am sure I will choose to vote for someone given the opportunity.
No problem if you believe an opposition alliance will remove Yahya. I say good luck and I mean that because I want to go back home now.
I will add that whatever made it impossible the last 20 years are still there and maybe more
Your proposal is contradictory. If you can win without reform - why waist time on fighting for reforms? If you can ensure electoral reform why not demand Constitutional Reform of which election law is a small sub-set?
Burama
On Mar 18, 2014, at 7:55 PM, Modou Nyang <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
> Burama,
> Thank you for the forward of the “The Working Paper”. I will not be able to read it now but hopefully in the future will manage to go through it. But anyhow, if I am to rely on what you have shared so far in this topic I am sure to be clear with what you aiming at and referring to as a “national democratic vision” aimed at institutionalizing democracy in the Gambia. I think you know that I am a student of PDOIS hence is no stranger to the ideals and near deification of democracy.
> What I now see as the fundamental difference between the two of us is while you rally your hopes on the way to the institutionalization of democracy in the Gambia through a non-political approach, my stance is radically different. I subscribe to the school of thought advocated by Nkrumah that declared “seek ye the political kingdom and everything shall follow”. Burama, without the control of state power – the power to make laws, design policies and implement them, one is at a disadvantage if not at a total loss to directing the affairs of a state. Remember the dictum, that the state is the legitimate monopoly of force. And what is there the need of politics if not for the management and dispensation of the force of society? Burama, the lesson is that in politics power must be accrued in order for one to be able to direct the course of society. The magic course for me is political change to be followed next by institutional reform and building to enable the flourishing of democracy among the people.
> You challenged me to state in chronological order on how to effect political change in the Gambia. I will oblige you.
> 1. Build an alliance of opposition parties on the ground in partnership with all other forces outside of the country that are opposed to the regime in Banjul for the purpose of effecting change through the ballot box.
> 2. With such a grand alliance in place, they can table demands for electoral reform as a condition for their participation in the elections. With or without prior reform I am of the strong conviction that a grand opposition alliance can still manage an electoral victory against Yaya.
> 3. Reform or no reform, and whatever the election results turn out to be in the presidential race an opposition grand alliance can easily pull off a majority in the NA elections. With a deciding majority in the house Yaya’s fate is seal. Or if we wish to consider the other side even if Yaya’s party is to get a majority in the house the alliance can still manage a sizable minority that would require their endorsement before any legislation is to be passed in the assembly.
> While all this is working its self out a lot of work will have been going into the agitation, mobilization and organization of the people for change. The power of the alliance will ensure the safety and right to conduct their affairs as dictated by law. Any attempt to forcibly and illegally disrupt or deny them that right should then be resisted. This is what I mean by self-defense and what you term a call for violence. I do not hear those calling for violence mentioning elections in their discussions.
> I am also well aware that fixing of our democratic deficiency will not be accomplished in one election cycle. But in order for such arduous task to begin the factors impeding its commencement must be uprooted.
> Thanks
> Nyang
>
>
> On Tuesday, March 18, 2014 6:58 PM, Burama Jammeh <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
> Rene
>
> Sometimes it appears you see my reasoning and at times not sure clear:
>
> Let me say this - probably there will be nothing we will do and/or say that has not been said and/or done. Yet we have a very mixed-up puzzle we need to rearrange before it can fit the casing.
>
> Gambians advocating for ‘The Republic and Democracy’ - on this we seem to think is a good idea. So far though all our efforts are at some point hang to party political operation. These has both reduce our ability to think other options but also made us part of the local mudsling of retail politicking. In short we lost our legitimate distinct identity.
>
> My reasoning is for 'us not seeking political office' through the ballot should operate as neutral as we can - and our only demand will be to institutionalize democracy regardless who is in office and/or seeking office. Yet these approach excludes no one but it’s no vehicle for anyone’s aspiration to the presidency.
>
> I must say am bemused still some think some reorganization/reshuffling of the opposition is out there that will win an election against Yahya. I say good luck!
>
> Sure there are many CSO of Gambians outside of our borders. The problem with our organizations is that most are really organization by name and by friends. Most can neither show registration of any kind nor any program/intent documents. Probably is safe to say none has enough resources to do the kind of advocacy, organization and mobilization needed. Hence I suggest A National Face! My hope is such a representative body of citizens will be constituted based on our purpose and expertise. CORDEG and/or something like that can do it provided the problem is well define and the strategies to pursue.
>
> I heard over the radio, CORDEG has things like agricultural improvement as goal and/or program. Am not sure how true this is because i haven’t read such paper……but it makes one stomach begin to boil should that be true. Are they political party seeking office (manifesto), are they government with some development programs……..what’s going on?
>
> When I suggest we need a NATIONAL DEFINITION OF THE PROBLEM(S) OF OUR STRUGGLE, many suggest am out of my mind. If true, here is the answer.
>
> Home based civil activity is critical but we have to graduate our phase-in into Gambia with millstones to reduce harm to the local people.
>
> On the question of political leverage, I will submit we have zero. Unfortunate many think home base should do this - why not us outside. It doesn’t really matter where but we are more opportune to do it better, cheaper and less danger. The nation(we) have not present an alternative body that others can listen to what they stand for. The supposed leverage of the supporters of political parties are at present unusable for reasons known to all of us.
>
> A National Face will represent our position internationally. They will work with citizens within the country to organize and mobile civil resistance. They will raise funds to finance our operations. But they will not support candidacies or parties against others. Over time this process will strangulate dictatorship, forced them to the negotiation tables. Hopefully one of the matters on that table will be Constitutional Overhaul which will surely affect election laws. Also on that table will be Restructuring Government, Separation of Powers, Decentralization of Governing to Regions, District and Villages. Etc!
>
> Along side a proper civic education and the elimination of fear of state reprisal - we can expect Gambians to make a free choice at subsequent ballots. That choice could be Yahya and/or anyone. Regardless who wins s/he governs as our laws dictate or s/he gets the booth.
>
> But to keep saying……….YAHYA IS THE PROBLEM AND MUST GO FIRST……….My QUESTION to anyone with such view………TELL ME HOW YOU WILL DO THAT. I definitely want him out but don’t know how as the first order of business
>
> Disclaimer…………THIS IS A LONG TERM UNDERTAKING! I’ve not seen any viable short term solution…………Share one if you have/know
>
> Burama
>
>
> On Mar 18, 2014, at 5:47 PM, [log in to unmask] wrote:
>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Burama Jammeh <[log in to unmask]>
>> To: GAMBIA-L <[log in to unmask]>
>> Sent: Tue, Mar 18, 2014 6:23 am
>> Subject: Re: [G_L] How to Bring down Yaya and Build Democracy - My Take in contrast to Burama Jammeh's Plan
>>
>> Rene
>>
>> Most of what you said are nicely worded.
>>
>>
>> As a practical matter how do we address each one of them? Which would be the most logical to start with? How do we remove Uahya? Etc
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> We seem to be good at is saying what is the problem or don't like but hardly offer alternatives. If elections are what you counting on - I say good luck! I hope to live to next election to share that result.
>>
>>
>> I did not say democracy before democracy. It doesn't make much reason. What I said is removing and replacing a person will not earn us democracy. A case in point is the exchange of Jawara to Yahya - isn't it worst?
>>
>>
>>
>> Burama, if you don't mind I will just comment on the quotes below.
>>
>> "My point is there must exist a feared democracy force that argued for democracy, educate, organize and mobile citizens to expand the home base of this force. The success of this force largely depend on not associating to someone's presidency agenda. A neutral stand for the Republic and Democracy."
>>
>> If I understand you, what you are suggesting is that there should exist an entity or entities whose sole preoccupation is to advance the cause of democracy in the country. In order to achieve this objective such entities will educate, organize and mobilize the citizens towards this end. And once the citizens are educated, organized and mobilized they will then become a formidable force to be reckon with in their desire to have a true and genuine democracy.
>>
>> If this is the position that is reflected in your statement above, I have no quarrel with it. In fact, it is a very noble idea. These are the sort of things that civil society organizations can be every effective in orchestrating.
>>
>> What I cannot understand is the linkage of this citizen's advocacy to someone's presidential agenda. Indeed, this should not be part of anyone's presidential agenda, however, people are free to support and sympathize with any presidential agenda. That is why we have political parties.
>>
>> "Who can or do I reason can be the nucleus of this force - me, you and many others concern with the plight of Gambia." All of the above, me, you and many others concern.
>>
>> "How can we do that - since we have no standing army and elections and/orelection environment too bad to win......our best alternative to amass political leverage."
>>
>> The political leverage is within the people themselves. They are their own armies. You have said it yourself: you educate them, you organize them and you mobilize them. They will do the rest.
>>
>> "What do we need to do to amass such leverage - we have to have a define cause in writing, we have to present what I call national face of concern to the powers that be, raise findings and organize and mobile forces both within and outside of the border"
>>
>> Civil society and advocacy groups can amass political leverage on their own. Just look at what the diaspora civil society and advocacy groups are doing. Imagine if such activities were replicated inside the country. What these groups do or can do is different from what political parties do. We have to make the distinction.
>>
>>
>> Rene
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> "How long with it take to yield result - don't know the eaxact time frame but I wouldn't hestitate to tell you a long time is need."
>>
>>
>> It's unrealistic those thinking next election is our chance. Many of such chances has come and go, yet we don't seem to reason why is not happening.
>>
>>
>> I hope we're not entrenched but discussing with a view to reason what come from the other end.
>>
>>
>> Thanks for your thoughts
>>
>>
>> Burama
>>
>> On Tuesday, March 18, 2014, <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>> Burama,
>> The problem with your postulations about a functioning democracy, is that the institutional framework for democracy must first be established before a democracy can be functional. You cannot have a functioning democracy where there is no democracy. This makes the whole premise of attaining a functional democracy where all the mechanics of a democratic dispensation are absent redundant.
>>
>> The political structures and culture in the country has been consolidated and passed from one republic to the other; and the only way for our quest for a democratic dispensation and culture to be realized is to forge a new beginning. How to forge this new beginning is the challenge that we are grappling with at the moment.
>>
>> I agree with Nyang that the constitutional framework that can engender a peaceful transition to a more democratic dispensation could be present, but it has to take the active participation of all the stakeholder in the
>> political process to demand that such is the case.
>>
>> The nation-state is constituted with people who belong to different ethnic groups, have different interest persuasions and subscribe to different belief systems, thus there must be a mechanism through which a society can be regulated so that rights can be protected and duties and responsibilities assigned.
>>
>> Thus within the constitutional framework that governs the nation-state, law and order serve as the guide for an equitable basis where nobody is maligned or favored; and everyone enjoys the security, protection and all the fundamental rights that are associated with one's right to "life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness." At least this is the ideal.
>>
>> Rene
>>
>> ----Original Message-----
>> From: Burama Jammeh <[log in to unmask]>
>> To: GAMBIA-L <[log in to unmask]>
>> Sent: Mon, Mar 17, 2014 10:01 pm
>> Subject: Re: [G_L] How to Bring down Yaya and Build Democracy - My Take in contrast to Burama Jammeh's Plan
>>
>> Nyang
>>
>> I will be sure to email you a copy of ‘The Draft Working Paper’. I will not abridge it for the purpose of this conversation - too much work. You may or may not read it but flipping through it will hopefully give you an idea what I viewed ‘A National Democracy Vision’.
>>
>>
>> I am not against the removal of Yahya as you want it. However there is not practical political solution.
>>
>>
>> You ended with election with some qualifications will do it. I want to say Yahya’s refereeing of election is not just the control over IEC
>>
>>
>> - He appoint Governors and fire them
>> - He appoint chiefs and village alkalis and fire them
>> - He cam even fire National Assembly members in some instance
>> - He only resources of any kind
>> - He the only viable business man
>> - He feed families
>> - He kill and kidnap
>> - etc
>>
>>
>> Essentially Yahya control the very fiber of Gambian society that - marry, bury and christen us.
>>
>>
>> There is no amount of organization, reorganization and/or union of other political forces will win election as long as these conditions prevail.
>>
>>
>> Am with you on demands for electoral reforms. Remember election laws are part of The Constitution - if we can build political leverage why stop at demanding just a sub-section of The Constitution. I will still take the sub-sectional approach
>>
>>
>> Please give us in a step wise approach, say (1……..20…..) or A……Z) how we demand and ensure reforms. Its still Yahya in the helm. What can we do for him to adhere?
>>
>>
>> I would avoid taking you on your positions on violence approach. I will tell you this, I will not be there and I don’t condone it. Using undemocratic tools for democracy never install one anywhere.
>>
>>
>> Finally, am not sure how much of politics you were involved or follow during the 1st Republic - Yahya did not create the political mess we’re in. Jawara did. Yahya is Jawara on DOUBLE DOSE STEROID.
>>
>>
>> Removal of a president will not bring democracy. Me and you may or may not be in the camp of the new sheriff in town - but there will be no democracy. Democracy will be instill if and when majority of our people have capacities to live a life of democracy. Then they will demand it from their leaders - until then forget it (it will always be winners and losers)
>>
>>
>> Fixing Gambia’s problem is not 1 election cycle problem. It’s a whole social engineering process that will take decades and an appreciable result may never come during my life time. Yet that’s a cause worth our fight.
>>
>>
>> Please drop me your personal email so I can send you the document. I think I have it but just to make sure.
>>
>>
>> Appreciate your insight. Thanks
>>
>>
>> Burama
>>
>> On Mar 17, 2014, at 10:17 PM, Modou Nyang <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>>
>>
>> Burama,
>> Thank you for your response. I will adhere to your wish andaddress you as you demanded. The uncle reference is as a result of a customarydifficulty from my part to address people I know are older than myself by theirliteral names. But I respect your decision and will put that aside.
>> For a start, you asked that I reference your draft “workingpaper”. I ask that you please share the exact portion you referring because itappears it is a different paper from the “the plan” that you sent out when Iasked for specifics. That will save me time because it will be very difficult forme to peruse through the bulk of your writings.
>> Burama, yes you are right about the focus of my agenda thatit is concentrated firstly on the removal of Yaya. Yes, it is my
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>
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