why?

On Tue, Dec 7, 2010 at 2:04 PM, Modou Mboge <[log in to unmask]> wrote:

> Fankung,
>
> Zip up!
>
> Mboge
>
>   On Tue, Dec 7, 2010 at 7:55 PM, C. Omar Kebbeh <[log in to unmask]
> > wrote:
>
>> Hello,
>> Dont waste your times, the Gambian opposition is broken because of the
>> leadership. All these is just cheap talk. Gambians love President Jammeh and
>> will always elect him as president. Are you guys forgetting about 2006?
>> Please tell these groups to come and join the APRC.
>>
>>   On Tue, Dec 7, 2010 at 1:38 PM, Haruna Darbo <[log in to unmask]>wrote:
>>
>>> Modou my friend, I am very busy at this time but will take time out to
>>> see if you can educate me on part of your notes that is not an exclusive
>>> question for JDAM. I saw Rene's amicus and I would share some ideas with
>>> that other Pliny later. I'm all yours for now:
>>>
>>> [-----Original Message-----  From: Modou Nyang <[log in to unmask]>
>>> To: GAMBIA-L <[log in to unmask]>  Sent: Tue, Dec 7, 2010 5:40
>>> am  Subject: Re: Foroyaa News: Talks on Opposition Unity Between Sidia and
>>> Darboe.
>>>   LJD, Thank you for sharing your thoughts. Every person has his or her
>>> own opinion hence it is not worthwhile to argue with opinions.] Modou.
>>>
>>> It is opinions that characterized the infamous meeting between Hons.
>>> Sidia and Ousainou. They gave each other their opinions and were supposed to
>>> GET BACK TO EACH OTHER. That is the disposition of folk trained toward a
>>> common ALLIANCE I think.
>>>
>>> [The best is to respect them and recognise the wisdom in them if any.]
>>> Modou.
>>>
>>> It is the opinions of the Honorables. It is for them to respect those
>>> opinions. We, on the other hand are not beholden to those opinions nor hold
>>> a particular regard for them if any.
>>>
>>> [If I may want to follow the pattern of your argument and try to respond
>>> to all that you raised it would mean reducing this whole exercise to a mere
>>> exchange of words.] Modou.
>>>
>>> COnversation is a mere exchange of words until either party acts on those
>>> words.
>>>
>>> [Needless to say, if you are left wondering what “speculations” Sidia is
>>> talking about, me Modou Nynag, I am not. Since Sidia’s meeting with Darboe
>>> rumours were spreading in the country regarding the meeting and it’s
>>> possible outcome, hence the need to clear the air.] Modou.
>>>
>>> I see you find need now to argue speculations (opinions). It is a tricky
>>> proposition Modou to discount exchange of words and opinions as mere
>>> chatter.
>>>
>>> [I would want detail of every meeting be made public for everyone to know
>>> what transpired because we have nothing to hide.] Modou.
>>>
>>> I wish you to consider that if you pour your heart and soul out to me
>>> today, I still wouldn't know if you have something or nothing to hide Modou.
>>> Think about it. What we intend to hide, we store in irretrievable memory.
>>> WHat we intend to share we store in random memory.
>>>
>>> [We are faced with a similar situation regarding the NADD situation.]
>>> Modou.
>>>
>>> You appear to be re-litigating NADD Modou. Tell me it ain't so. Could it
>>> be that Hon. Halifa transferred negotiating powers to Sidia (NADD) because
>>> NADD was to be relitigated ad-infinitum?
>>>
>>> [Even a meeting between Sidia and Darboe after Darboe pulled out of NADD
>>> was rumoured as Sidia joining UDP.] Modou.
>>>
>>> The ides of NADD!!! Imagine what would happen when you hold a primary
>>> among opposition politicians Modou. Under AGENDA 2020.
>>>
>>> [So LJD, you have a right to your opinion, but don’t think that will also
>>> stop us from acting the way we feel is right and appropriate.] Modou.
>>>
>>> The problem then comes alive when each of us ACT on our unique opinions.
>>> Because we all think we're right and our opinions are appropriate. This is
>>> the idea behind conversations and negotiations for commoner relief.
>>>
>>> [“It is the "primary" question that stands in the way of a united front
>>> in the sense that its architecture appears to rig the outcome in favour of
>>> Halifa”.
>>> LJD, this is the second time you have said that the primary aspect of
>>> Agenda 2011 is designed to favour Halifa. What makes you say so? Are you
>>> saying that when Halifa is in a ballot to select a single candidate to
>>> represent the opposition against others including Darboe it will go his way?
>>> Why and How? You have to answer these questions.] Modou of JDAM.
>>>
>>> I will yield for JDAM to share his OPINIONS with your OPINIONS Modou.
>>> Albeit couched in inquiry. Besides, I have no comment on AGENDA 2020 and
>>> caucuses and primaries. In a country where the battle is to remove one idiot
>>> from office. Never will have. A sheer waste of time and resources to me.
>>>
>>> [And to say that it is the primary question “that stands in the way of a
>>> united front”, is an utter statement to say the least. How is the primary
>>> question standing in the way of a united front? It is interesting that your
>>> option for a way forward for a united front is “UDP leading a united front
>>> under an ironclad agreement constraining its ability to misbehave once in
>>> government.”] Modou.
>>>
>>> There is no other way you can control the behavior or misbehavior of your
>>> fellow in a democratic society. You must rely on their better
>>> wisdom....Binding constraint. CHeck with Putin and Medvedev for more ideas.
>>>
>>> [LJD, may I inform you that your favoured option for a united front is a
>>> deterrent to opposition unity to me as well as many others.] Modou.
>>>
>>> It very well may be Modou and you are entitled to share that opinion with
>>> us just as JDAM shared his with us.
>>> Either of you or both of you sharing that does not the deterrent make for
>>> the sober and reflective among us. When a people is confronted with
>>> momentous considerations as Gambians are at this time, frivolous schemes
>>> will not paly a large role in their calculus. Trust me.
>>>
>>> {And by the way what do you consider an “ironclad agreement” that will be
>>> able to constrain the “ability [of the UDP] to misbehave once in
>>> government.” LJD, I really want to know. Being the legal person that you are
>>> your input in such an agreement will be worthwhile.} Modou.
>>>
>>> Ironclad agreement in law means an agreement signed by the parties to a
>>> negotiation. Nothing more nothing less. It does not mean clad in steel or
>>> any of iron's alloys.
>>>
>>> [Personally, I share wholly Sidia’s view that he is "not sure which
>>> political leader in the opposition could take voters away from the ruling
>>> party and motivate those who abstained in 2006 to cast their vote”, to help
>>> the opposition win the election.] Modou.
>>>
>>> Modou, I also recognize that Hon. Sidia may not be sure of the foregoing.
>>> I will add however that if Hon. Sidia wishes to be sure that the opposition
>>> takes votes away from Yahya and encourage those who abstained to come out in
>>> their good number, unafraid, to vote, is to combine the efforts and gravitas
>>> of all those opposition political leaders in an ALLIANCE. That is sure to
>>> cover all the ambiguities. And don't discount the symbolism inherent in an
>>> ALLIANCE-FRONT in the eyes of the vrai voters. In La-Guinea and Mali, folks
>>> were not sure which of the opposition political parties (incl. ATT) would
>>> win. But after hallmark ALLIANCES, any of the sober won. And Mali's
>>> government was a national unity government. La-Guinea's government promises
>>> to be that too. A National Unity government is actually a misnomer. What we
>>> call a National Unity government is actually a Government as democracy
>>> envisioned.
>>>
>>> [Your argument that “UDP has a far larger support base than any
>>> opposition party in the country” is not a good enough argument and guarantee
>>> for us to flock behind them.] Modou.
>>>
>>> Modou, consider that that opinon of JDAM is not good enough argument. Now
>>> consider UDP (whose support base is questionnable therefore) alloyed with
>>> NRP, PPP, GMC, and PDOIS. Or let's say PDOIS has the far larger support base
>>> than any opposition. Then consider PDOIS alloyed with UDP, NRP, GMC, and
>>> PPP. What do you think you're gonna git????
>>>
>>> [Furthermore, I personally discourage PDOIS from ever thinking of
>>> supporting a UDP led alliance. We are not part of UDP.] Modou.
>>>
>>> Let's say PDOIS ascends to your advice Modou for fancy. Would you
>>> envisage UDP, NRP, PPP, or GMC or all to ever think of supporting a
>>> PDOIS-led alliance??? After all none of these parties are part of PDOIS. DO
>>> not mistake grace and consideration for obsolescence. You are basically
>>> constraining PDOIS' dynamism in the future should they heed to your advice.
>>> It is comforting to know that PDOIS is a more reflective party than that.
>>>
>>> [We are a party of our own with it’s holds different views on how to run
>>> the affairs of our country once mandated by the people.] Modou.
>>>
>>> The other parties are parties of their own which hold different views on
>>> how to run the affairs of our country once mandated by the people. At this
>>> time, we work on "being mandated by the people". PDOIS will not lose its
>>> identity and uniqueness by forming an electoral alliance with other
>>> democratic parties if PDOIS' interest is democracy.
>>>
>>> [However, conscious of the circumstances on the ground and the position
>>> of the parties’ seeking to replace the APRC in government, we fully
>>> subscribe to a pooling of resources and strengths to effect a change of the
>>> system. This pooling of resources should not amount to helping one part of
>>> the whole into becoming a lord over the rest of the others.] Modou.
>>>
>>> I suppose you'd rather the other parts pool their resources to help PDOIS
>>> into becoming Lord over them. How can a party become Lord over her allied
>>> parties Modou????? I see you're in a defiant mood these days my friend. You
>>> cannot forge an alliance with this attitude. Imagine if Francois Lounceny
>>> Fall, Ousmane Bah, DIallo, Kouyate, Fofana, Kourouma, Bangoura, Toure,
>>> Baadiko, Barry, Kaba, or Camara had your frame of mind. We would not have
>>> had this new hope for La-Guinea.
>>>
>>> [Since it is the collective input of a group that helps to bring about
>>> such a change, it has to be transitional in order to finally give way for a
>>> level and multiparty contest by all on equal footing, nothing more nothing
>>> less.] Modou.
>>>
>>> I don't see anyone arguing with the concept of a transitional government.
>>> By its very definition in democracy, a government is inherently
>>> transitional. And the level and multiparty both should be accrued in that
>>> transition. Frankly I don't know what your anxieties are Modou. You seem to
>>> agree at the end of your notes that what an ALLIANCE would yield (change) is
>>> good. But in the beginning, you take exception at PDOIS even considering a
>>> party-led alliance on account of PDOIS' uniqueness. It is unique parties
>>> that form Alliances. I suppose if the other parties were to wake up on the
>>> wrong side of the bed one day and say "PDOIS, we would like to follow your
>>> lead in an alliance of our parties" you would reject it outright because
>>> they are different from you????????????????????? Allahu wakubaru!!!
>>>
>>> [A change for the better is what we are yearning for not the elevation of
>>> others above the rest.] Modou.
>>>
>>> In America, we were yearning for a change for the better. We thought we
>>> would elevate Obama above Hillary and the rest so he can be our Pall-bearer
>>> into that change. The scenario you envisage is that of a stalemate society
>>> with a whole bunch of chiefs and no injuns.
>>>
>>> [If any is so desperate let them go get it hence no one can accuse us of
>>> helping to put in office a bad government whenever it turns out to be
>>> so.] Modou.
>>>
>>> And if doesn't turn our to be so?????? You don't want to be accused of
>>> removing your persecutor for fear your brother might replace him. A brother
>>> who has never indicated to you in his history that he will persecute you. Eh
>>> Allah.
>>>
>>> [If PDOIS was only interested in changing governments, the PPP government
>>> would have been history long before 1994.] Modou.
>>>
>>> You're funny Modou. WHy do you think there was no PDOIS during the
>>> COLONIAL GOVERNMENT that preceded the
>>> PPP????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????? That is
>>> the $64,000.00 question. I suppose PDOIS did not have the requisite
>>> consciousness then???? And what is PDOIS interested in besides replacing the
>>> government of the day????? Maybe we can point PDOIS in the right direction
>>> when we know what he's wantin.
>>>
>>> Men, I'll be late for my meeting. Later men. What a pain in the arse???
>>> Haruna.
>>>
>>> --- On *Tue, 12/7/10, Lamin Darbo <[log in to unmask]>* wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> From: Lamin Darbo <[log in to unmask]>
>>> Subject: Re: Foroyaa News: Talks on Opposition Unity Between Sidia and
>>> Darboe
>>> To: [log in to unmask]
>>> Date: Tuesday, December 7, 2010, 3:46 AM
>>>
>>>     Nyang
>>>
>>> Sidia's statement is quite extraordinary in its evasiveness and needless
>>> inbuilt propaganda.
>>>
>>> When did the meeting with Ousainou happened?
>>>
>>> His Central Committee knew he was meeting Ousainou. Did he report back,
>>> or was he *"invited to a meeting by the PDOIS Executive Committee to
>>> brief them on whether the UDP leader had spoken to me about any Alliance
>>> that they wanted PDOIS to join which aims to discuss the future of the
>>> country and the modalities of creating a united front without any
>>> conditionality"*
>>>
>>> What *"speculations"* is Sidia talking about? It was no secret that
>>> Sidia and Ousainou met, and this statement from Sidia may therefore be seen
>>> as nothing other than a replay of the NADD disaster in 2006. Even when it
>>> was absolutely clear we would not get a united front against Doctor
>>> Jammeh (as he then was), we were bombarded with ceaseless propaganda from
>>> Halifa regarding his willingness to adhere to the wishes of the people.
>>>
>>> About Ousainou selling his *"his candidature to the Gambian voters*",
>>> this is indeed feet dragging par excellence by Sidia and his organisation.
>>> The spirit enunciated in Agenda 2011 is embodied in the general principles
>>> of opposition to the government of the APRC. Merely committing them to paper
>>> does not make them unique principles of PDOIS. It is the "primary" question
>>> that stands in the way of a united front in the sense that its architecture
>>>  appears to rig the outcome in favour of Halifa.
>>>
>>> For example, Sidia contends that he is *"not sure which political leader
>>> in the opposition could take voters away from the ruling party and motivate
>>> those who abstained in 2006 to cast their vote. Hence I subscribe to the
>>> idea of holding a primary for the people to select the candidate of their
>>> choice in line with Agenda 2011. I told him that this is why I endorse
>>> Agenda 2011"*.
>>>
>>> If the ultimate objective is to is to *"take voters away from the ruling
>>> party and motivate those who abstained in 2006 to cast their vote"* in
>>> sufficient numbers to defeat the APRC, then the answer is none of the
>>> opposition leaders individually. That will only come about under a united
>>> front, and unquestionably, the UDP has a far larger support base than any
>>> opposition party in the country. PDOIS should drop the unnecessary
>>> conditionality of a 'primary' and consider the alternative of UDP leading a
>>> united front under an ironclad agreement constraining its ability to
>>> misbehave once in government.
>>>
>>> I am not the least impressed by Sidia's assertion thus: *"He assured me
>>> that he would hold an extraordinary meeting with his committee and come back
>>> to me. Since then I have been waiting to know what their stand is on Agenda
>>> 2011 or selling his candidature to the Gambian voters. These are the ways
>>> forward that are before the UDP leader and they need to take a stand and
>>> move on instead of giving the impression that Sidia is dragging his feet on
>>> the issue of a united front".*
>>>
>>> Again, when did the meeting with Ousainou occurred, and did they agree on
>>> when Ousainou would "come back" to Sidia? As to the insinuation that
>>> Ousainou is holding matters, when was the issue of a meeting first mooted,
>>> and how long did it take for it to materialise? Why is Sidia so eager to
>>> preempt the issue of "feet dragging"? The trick is to appreciate the
>>> pertinent streams of thought when dealing with a media savvy organisation
>>> like PDOIS.
>>>
>>> And finally to a point that is ever present in expressed views of the
>>> PDOIS leadership. Sidia  states that *"those who want to support the
>>> opposition should take their sides and promote dialogue while not
>>> undermining each other’s positions. This is the way forward". *Halifa
>>> stated this in his interview with *Maafanta.com*, and Sidia now repeats
>>> it. Why can they not accept that Gambians can be *neutral,* and that
>>> people like myself, Joe Sambou, and countless others, are in no way wedded
>>> to any particular party, and that this is quite legitimate and plausible on
>>> public questions of great significance. If this is intended to stop
>>> difficult dialogue, it is unlikely to succeed.
>>>
>>> As of now, I am in no doubt that PDOIS is a major stumbling block in the
>>> creation of a united front in so far as the non-negotiable bottleneck of an
>>> unnecessary Agenda 2011 'primary' is concerned
>>>
>>> I assure Sidia that contrary to his view, we are well aware of the
>>> "concrete realities on the ground". Again, this dismissive statement will
>>> not deter elements within the Diaspora community from having its say on
>>> issues affecting the direction of our country.
>>>
>>> More pertinently, some of us are not primed to be swayed by mere
>>> propaganda!
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> LJDarbo
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --- On *Mon, 6/12/10, Modou Nyang <[log in to unmask]>* wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> From: Modou Nyang <[log in to unmask]>
>>> Subject: Foroyaa News: Talks on Opposition Unity Between Sidia and Darboe
>>> To: [log in to unmask]
>>> Date: Monday, 6 December, 2010, 17:57
>>>
>>>    SIDIA JATTA /OUSAINOU DARBOE MEETING
>>>
>>> The National Assembly Member for Wuli West, Hon, Sidia Jatta, issued the
>>> following statement relating to his meeting with Mr. Ousainou Darboe,
>>> Secretary General and Leader of the United Democratic Party.
>>>
>>> DECEMBER 5, 2010
>>>
>>> Having been waiting for Mr Ousainou Darboe to come back to me as promised
>>> after meeting his Executive Committee, I was invited to a meeting by the
>>> PDOIS Executive Committee to brief them on whether the UDP leader had spoken
>>> to me about any Alliance that they wanted PDOIS to join which aims to
>>> discuss the future of the country and the modalities of creating a united
>>> front without any conditionality. It has been brought to my notice that the
>>> GMC leader, Mr. Mai Fatty, has called on PDOIS to join an Alliance but has
>>> not sent any document to indicate that an Alliance exists which PDOIS should
>>> join. After my discussion with the PDOIS Central Committee, I have seen the
>>> need to make my discussion with the UDP leader public so that all
>>> speculations would come to an end. Gambians should bear in mind what has
>>> happened in Guinea Conakry and what is happening in Cote D’Ivoire at this
>>> very moment. Some leaders are not interested in historical legacies. They
>>> are only interested in having their way whether for the better or for the
>>> worse. Finally, it is the ordinary people who pay for the follies of their
>>> leaders. I do not want any body to link me to any dragging of feet regarding
>>> the creation of a united front by the opposition.
>>>
>>> My discussion with UDP leader was direct, frank, short and without any
>>> ambiguity.
>>> We discussed four main items, that is, his concept of what constitutes
>>> the international standard of forming opposition alliances; the NADD
>>> experience, Agenda 2011 and the need for opposition collaboration to monitor
>>> the registration of voters.
>>>
>>> Mr. Darboe told me that the international standard of establishing
>>> opposition Alliances is for the party with the majority to lead and the
>>> others to follow.
>>>
>>> I observed that it is unfortunate that in the Gambian context there is no
>>> second round of voting which would have made it possible for the people to
>>> select the two candidates who could participate in the final round. I added
>>> that if he wants, he as UDP leader to be supported as a candidate, on the
>>> basis of the principle he mentioned, he should go ahead and start a campaign
>>> to sell his candidature to the Gambian voters.
>>>
>>> I emphasised that on my part, I am not sure which political leader in the
>>> opposition could take voters away from the ruling party and motivate those
>>> who abstained in 2006 to cast their vote. Hence I subscribe to the idea of
>>> holding a primary for the people to select the candidate of their choice in
>>> line with Agenda 2011. I told him that this is why I endorse Agenda 2011.
>>>
>>> We then discussed the NADD experience. I made it very clear that even
>>> though other options were put on the table, all parties agreed to create
>>> NADD. I showed its successes and possibilities as a viable opposition
>>> Alliance. He maintained that NADD was destroyed by others.
>>>
>>> He expressed his view that Agenda 2011 is very good on paper but that he
>>> fears that it is not workable. He said that if different opposition leaders
>>> go on a political platform to campaign to be the Candidate of the
>>> opposition, they may engage in character assassination just to win votes. I
>>> told him that his fear should be laid to rest since Agenda 2011 is calling
>>> for each party or Independent personality to promote the Agenda on one’s own
>>> platform and seek a mandate of the people across the board. I emphasised
>>> that the mere fact that all voters who support the Agenda would be called
>>> upon to vote for the single candidate makes it essential for no candidate to
>>> be subjected to character assassination, since he or she may very well
>>> become the people’s choice of candidate. At that point he said that he was
>>> reassured.
>>>
>>> Finally, he questioned whether it was not possible for the opposition to
>>> collaborate to monitor the registration of voters. I told him that this was
>>> a necessity and every effort should be done to do so.
>>>
>>> He assured me that he would hold an extraordinary meeting with his
>>> committee and come back to me. Since then I have been waiting to know what
>>> their stand is on Agenda 2011 or selling his candidature to the Gambian
>>> voters. These are the ways forward that are before the UDP leader and they
>>> need to take a stand and move on instead of giving the impression that Sidia
>>> is dragging his feet on the issue of a united front.
>>>
>>> I have made it abundantly clear to the PDOIS Central Committee that there
>>> is no political vacuum for the creation of a United Front in the Gambia. The
>>> UDP leader has the option to start his campaign for the people to accept his
>>> candidature and extend invitation to others who are yet to be confident that
>>> he alone could put an end to voter apathy
>>> Agenda 2011 calls for each party to go on its own platform and campaign
>>> for its own candidate to be the single candidate of the opposition through a
>>> primary,
>>> NADD is still legally registered and all political parties could embrace
>>> it and then come together to select a single candidate. As far as I know
>>> PDOIS still subscribes to the NADD idea but PPP under OJ has also not pulled
>>> out of NADD.
>>>
>>> Those who want to support the opposition should take their sides and
>>> promote dialogue while not undermining each other’s positions. This is the
>>> way forward. I am willing to meet any representative from the GMC or any
>>> other party that aims to discuss Gambia’s future. Issuing comments in cyber
>>> space without knowing the concrete realities on the ground is not enough.
>>>
>>> The End
>>>
>>> SIDIA JATTA
>>> NATIONAL ASSEMBLY MEMBER FOR WULI WEST
>>>
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>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> *
>>
>> *****************************************************************************
>> GOD BLESS SHEIKH PROFESSOR ALHAGIE YAHYA AJJ JAMMEH*
>> *(PRESIDENT FOR LIFE.)*
>> *
>> *
>> *GOD BLESS THE GAMBIA*
>> *
>> *
>> *GOD BLESS APRC*
>> *
>> *
>> *DOWN WITH THE FAILED OPPOSITION *
>>
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>
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GOD BLESS SHEIKH PROFESSOR ALHAGIE YAHYA AJJ JAMMEH*
*(PRESIDENT FOR LIFE.)*
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*GOD BLESS THE GAMBIA*
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*GOD BLESS APRC*
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*DOWN WITH THE FAILED OPPOSITION *


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