Demba, with all due respect, I think you are missing the point. Asking for evidence and facts is something we the young should be in a habit of. I think you are still stuck in "jawara is a dictator" thing; no one in their right mind believe that Jawara was a dictator. Those who wish to debate that are already doing that on another thread and it is their right. The fact that we can just shout each other down based on a pack of lies is the main reason those of us who are interested in this topic are discussing this on this thread. Like I said before, what you consider bickering, others find substance in and it is their right. I don't think any sane person will come on a knowledge sharing platform and tell adults what they ought to talk about. You may be only interested in the struggle, and others (especially the young) here may be only interested in history so that they won't have to struggle. Kuneh lila saff.
I hope you heeded your own advice and told your guests last week that Jawara being a dictator is nonsense and not on the agenda for discussion. Just yesterday you were saying Burama misspoke, today he doubled down in his discussion with Karim.
With not much results to show for the fight against Jammeh, i doubt you are in a position of authority to decide what is of substance and what is nonsense. Skin your cat, let the rest skin theirs.
Thanks,
Matarr
On Wednesday, May 21, 2014 4:30 PM, Demba Baldeh <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
Matarr, you can go ahead and discuss what you want to discuss... It was actually a waste of my time to call freedom and even participate in that discussion. What is the results two weeks of bickering taking us several steps backward.. My point is that there is a difference between discussing issues with substance than just dwelling on an opinion someone made... As you rightfully ask for evidence you may never get one which tells us that these are just comments people made out of context... the Jawara dictatorship was made during a show I hosted and I guarantee you there isn't much to it.. If we can turn the discussion into something substantive am all for it... My apology for the use of the word empty barrels.. I was simply trying to make a point but may come across harsh... I hope you all understand..
Demba
On Wed, May 21, 2014 at 12:27 PM, Matarr Sillah <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
Demba,
>
>
>There is more than one way to skin a cat. If this discussion is of no interest to you, do like the rest who elected not to partake and skip it. With you calling adults engaged in a discussion of their choice "empty barrels" and "wasted generation", it is of course no surprise that you think it will lead to insults. I say, do you and let the "empty barrels" do them.
>
>
>In fact, this discussion is not about Jawara being a dictator. If you may will, it is a necessary discussion that we must have with those of us who blindly accuse people of stealing and being corrupt without any shred of evidence. Just a week ago, there was an insinuation that you and your friends misused funds, and you went on freedom to strongly defended yourself. So, it was not a waste of time for you to ask Pa Nderry to put up or shut up, but a waste of time when those accused of being corrupt come on to ask their accusers to give them evidence? What kind of world do you live in?
>
>
>
>
>Thanks,
>Matarr
>On Wednesday, May 21, 2014 2:24 PM, Demba Baldeh <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>
>
>
>Nope Ousman, don't misread me.. Seriously is there anything that we are going to learn or talk about Jawara being a dictator that we have not talked about or learned about? Seriously Ousman, I don't mean to be disrespectful but we have more serious problems confronting us than talking about Jawara was a dictator...
>
>
>There will not be any winner on this debate and we can talk about it all month you cannot convince anybody who thinks Jawara was a dictator... There is a difference between opinion and facts... In the end this will lead to insults and name calling.. and then you will agree with me that it is a waste of precious time... I will silently follow the discussion but personally I would rather be talking about ideas on how we get out of the situation we are in... No disrespect intended...
>
>
>Demba
>
>
>
>On Wed, May 21, 2014 at 11:14 AM, ousman ceesay <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>
>Demba,
>>
>>
>>History, someone opined, is prologue. Debates about the democratic credentials of a man who ruled Gambia for three decades, is not a waste of time. It has everything to do with the present struggle. You have people in the present struggle, who believe Jawara is a dictator, and Yaya copied his modus operandi and improved upon it. You may not agree with the debate, but dismissing it as not serious, labeling people who engaged in it as empty barrels, a generation without ideas, is quite unfortunate.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>________________________________
>>Date: Wed, 21 May 2014 10:53:18 -0700
>>From: [log in to unmask]
>>
>>Subject: Re: Sidi Sanneh Says Bring the forth the Evidence
>>To: [log in to unmask]
>>
>>
>>So the struggle have turned to Jawara being a dictator or not? Have we conceded that we no longer have ideas and or the will and courage to continue to fight the system that is threatening to extinct the basic freedom and democracy every country is fighting for?... have we lost hope on standing up for a better society and country for Gambia?
>>
>>
>>I am sorry but discussing whether Jawara was a dictator or not is at best a waste of precious time and energy. I would rather focus on ideas about how to remove and or strengthen the fight against the people who think they can take all of us for granted. This is a fitting description of the saying "empty barrels make the most noise" A generation without ideas on how to better their society is a lost generation... so unfortunate...
>>
>>
>>Demba
>>
>>
>>
>>On Wed, May 21, 2014 at 10:09 AM, ousman ceesay <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>>
>>Suntou wrote
>>>
>>>
>>>"Mattarr, our challenge is to former top civil servants to call on the scholarship board in the PPP era, to produce the records of applicants and why, X was chosen over Y? And Why X went to an African University or college whilst Y went to U.K or U.S. I am sure, the bundles of papers will be still be around, bar those dumped in bins amidst laughter's and snarling."
>>>
>>>
>>>I hate to say this, but i was under the impression that, you already have access to that kind of data, before you made a categorical statement like:
>>>
>>>
>>>"The evidences are so many and so pathetic that, one cannot make those sound Gambians relive their pains and agony"
>>>
>>>
>>>For the record, I am not dismissive of the allegations that, some deserving Gambians didn't get scholarships they applied for. Thus, I take umbrage at Mr. Sanneh's categorization of the whole thing as an urban myth. However, I am also of the opinion that, the magnitude of the allegations will not stand evidentiary scrutiny either. Mr. Sanneh' take on the resource allocation aspect makes a lot of sense to me. Also since when, do we come to this notion that, sons and daughters of the elite are not deserving of scholarships, if they are performing at or in some cases better than students from poor families? I shared the same classroom with some of these guys and gals. And I gotta to tell you, they are no slackers.They are as competitive as the guy from badibou Saba.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>________________________________
>>>Date: Wed, 21 May 2014 16:55:07 +0100
>>>From: [log in to unmask]
>>>
>>>Subject: Re: Sidi Sanneh Says Bring the forth the Evidence
>>>To: [log in to unmask]
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>Mattarr, for the sake of agreement, I mean, to brush it under the carpet, the system was perfect, there was no, never any bias, no nepotism etc, it was all good. Hope that help Sidi., But what is clear and will some day, in a democratic Gambia, come to light will be something all of us will learn from and attempt to improve our ways. Yes, presently, we can deny everything and put mammoth challenges, however, at the end of the day, what those who will accept certain failing agree is that, nepotism and favouritism was not just in scholarship awarding, but even jobs, loan, etc.
>>>And that chronic failings are now compounded and made worst with the violent political existence.
>>>Mattarr, our challenge is to former top civil servants to call on the scholarship board in the PPP era, to produce the records of applicants and why, X was chosen over Y? And Why X went to an African University or college whilst Y went to U.K or U.S.
>>>I am sure, the bundles of papers will be still be around, bar those dumped in bins amidst laughter's and snarling.
>>>Suntou
>>>
>>>
>>>On Wed, May 21, 2014 at 4:28 PM, Matarr Sillah <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>>>
>>>Suntou, when asked to present evidence or data, resorting to claims that cannot be substantiated does not help. And in your case, it is apparent you don't have any to present hence why you resort to the old talking points that we've all heard over and over again without a shred of evidence. Hopefully, someone will have evidence that will show that the sons and daughters of PPP ministers were being granted scholarships to the U.S and the U.K, while the sons of poor farmers were being sent to the University of nowhere. You are really making too easy for the author by not coming up with anything.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>Regards,
>>>>Matarr
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>On Wednesday, May 21, 2014 11:07 AM, suntou touray <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>Ousman
>>>>In essence what Sidi Sanneh is doing is the classic case of denial. The system in place was not properly monitored to stop favouritism, hence, who has the time to sit and tally all the people whose application found it way in the bin? I guess, in a truth, fact finding post-Jammeh era, we can all sit around a big table and reconcile mis-deeds happily. The system in place was not properly managed or monitored, that is fact. Now to proof that, a major announcement need to made, with compensation package on the offering, for people to agree to come forward.
>>>>Just like the security apparatus was not working properly, so was the scholarship board, GPMB, PWD, Agric Bank, GCDB, etc...we cannot close our eyes to those failings amidst some great achievements. The scholarship board bias was an open secret Ousman.
>>>>Suntou
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>On Wed, May 21, 2014 at 3:15 PM, ousman ceesay <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>Suntou,
>>>>>Mr. Sanneh challenge all and sundry to come up with evidence. What you just did, is what he cautioned against. How many of these cases have you come across? What is the talent pool they were competing against? Mr. Sanneh's take on resource allocation is pretty convincing. For instance, how many students can you sponsor to study in Nigeria in comparison to the united kingdom?
>>>>>
>>>>>--- Original Message ---
>>>>>
>>>>>From: "suntou touray" <[log in to unmask]>
>>>>>Sent: May 21, 2014 6:39 AM
>>>>>To: [log in to unmask]
>>>>>
>>>>>Subject: Re: Sidi Sanneh Says Bring the forth the Evidence
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>Modou
>>>>>The evidences are so many and so pathetic that, one cannot make those sound Gambians relive their pains and agony. Sir Dawda as a person is a democrat and a genuine human being who embraced our commonness, however, he failed to prevailed over many vices that ended consuming his good name and personal sacrifice.
>>>>>Many ambitious students who later opted to study in Sierra Leon, Ghana, Nigeria were people whose applications to study in England, U.S, dumped in dustbins. The connection and nepotism in place then and now is legendary. Sidi Sanneh wouldn't be able to see clearly then. He should use hindsight and accept certain faults and advise his peer 'resusitators' of the PPP well.
>>>>>Thanks
>>>>>Suntou
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>On Wed, May 21, 2014 at 3:24 AM, Modou Nyang <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>While the talk on Jawara is on, I can't resist any further but bring in here Sidi Sanneh's challenge for evidence and empirical data of nepotism especially in scholarships dealings.
>>>>>>LJ and Baba Galleh among others tell us your part of the story. For me at least I carried a bench and desk to LK Sec. Tech. in September 1991.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>http://sidisanneh.blogspot.com/2014/05/i-was-told-so-is-not-enough.html
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Sidi Sanneh: "I was told so" is not enough
>>>>>>Note: This blog post is unusually long and necessarily so. Debunking urban myths is not an easy task, especially myths concocted over 40 years ago. ------------...
>>>>>>View on sidisanneh.blogspot.com Preview by Yahoo
>>>>>> 、、、、、、、、、、、、、、、、、、、、、、、、、、、、、、、、、、、、、、、、、、、、、、、、、、、、、、、、、、 To unsubscribe/subscribe or view archives of postings, go to the Gambia-L Web interface at: http://listserv.icors.org/archives/gambia-l.html
>>>>>>To Search in the Gambia-L archives, go to: http://listserv.icors.org/SCRIPTS/WA-ICORS.EXE?S1=gambia-l To contact the List Management, please send an e-mail to: [log in to unmask] 、、、、、、、、、、、、、、、、、、、、、、、、、、、、、、、、、、、、、、、、、、、、、、、、、、、、、、、、、、
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>--
>>>>>www.suntoumana.blogspot.com 、、、、、、、、、、、、、、、、、、、、、、、、、、、、、、、、、、、、、、、、、、、、、、、、、、、、、、、、、、 To unsubscribe/subscribe or view archives of postings, go to the Gambia-L Web interface at: http://listserv.icors.org/archives/gambia-l.html
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>>>>>、、、、、、、、、、、、、、、、、、、、、、、、、、、、、、、、、、、、、、、、、、、、、、、、、、、、、、、、、、 To unsubscribe/subscribe or view archives of postings, go to the Gambia-L Web interface at: http://listserv.icors.org/archives/gambia-l.html
>>>>>To Search in the Gambia-L archives, go to: http://listserv.icors.org/SCRIPTS/WA-ICORS.EXE?S1=gambia-l To contact the List Management, please send an e-mail to: [log in to unmask] 、、、、、、、、、、、、、、、、、、、、、、、、、、、、、、、、、、、、、、、、、、、、、、、、、、、、、、、、、、
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>--
>>>>www.suntoumana.blogspot.com 、、、、、、、、、、、、、、、、、、、、、、、、、、、、、、、、、、、、、、、、、、、、、、、、、、、、、、、、、、 To unsubscribe/subscribe or view archives of postings, go to the Gambia-L Web interface at: http://listserv.icors.org/archives/gambia-l.html
>>>>To Search in the Gambia-L archives, go to: http://listserv.icors.org/SCRIPTS/WA-ICORS.EXE?S1=gambia-l To contact the List Management, please send an e-mail to: [log in to unmask] 、、、、、、、、、、、、、、、、、、、、、、、、、、、、、、、、、、、、、、、、、、、、、、、、、、、、、、、、、、
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>、、、、、、、、、、、、、、、、、、、、、、、、、、、、、、、、、、、、、、、、、、、、、、、、、、、、、、、、、、 To unsubscribe/subscribe or view archives of postings, go to the Gambia-L Web interface at: http://listserv.icors.org/archives/gambia-l.html To Search in the Gambia-L archives, go to: http://listserv.icors.org/SCRIPTS/WA-ICORS.EXE?S1=gambia-l To contact the List Management, please send an e-mail to: [log in to unmask] 、、、、、、、、、、、、、、、、、、、、、、、、、、、、、、、、、、、、、、、、、、、、、、、、、、、、、、、、、、
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>--
>>>www.suntoumana.blogspot.com 、、、、、、、、、、、、、、、、、、、、、、、、、、、、、、、、、、、、、、、、、、、、、、、、、、、、、、、、、、
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>>>
>>>¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤
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>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>--
>>"Be the change you want to see in the World"
¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤
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>>
>>¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤
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>
>
>
>--
>"Be the change you want to see in the World"
¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤
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>
>
>¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤
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--
"Be the change you want to see in the World"
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