Haruiner,
Low blows will not do! Varify yours first. Didn't your side kick bring in
Kagame into the discussion.
Mboge
On Tue, Mar 23, 2010 at 2:05 AM, Haruna Darbo <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
> Ehhh Olfactor,
>
> I am not your companion. Don't tell me someone changed our discussion when
> you were the veritable detractor. And don't tell me you're a man of your own
> when we are trying to discern if you're a man first. I am not your
> companion. And are you a Pan-African???
>
> Haruna.
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Modou Mboge <[log in to unmask]>
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Sent: Mon, Mar 22, 2010 8:28 pm
> Subject: Re: BBC E-mail: Rwanda accused win UK court case - PRECEDENT FOR
> FORMER HIGH COURT JUDGE SAFIATOU NJIE?
>
> Haruiner,
>
> As usual, you've woken up and dittoing has began. Your stupid friend
> moonlighting as the political analyst changed a strictly legal discussion to
> comparing apples and oranges. There is nothing comparable between Kagame
> and a rogue like Jammeh.
>
> Tell me about what jungle justice i am running away and what havoc did i
> participate in to warrant my coming to live in the west. Persona
> delinquencies and inadequacies, what load of BS
> I am a man of my own and I am not seeking yours or anyones approval
> for anything. Talk of trashy and nonesensical self-delusional importance.
>
> Mboge
>
> On Tue, Mar 23, 2010 at 1:13 AM, Haruna Darbo <[log in to unmask]>wrote:
>
>> Suntou,
>>
>> Thank you for your common sense. The problem with some of these folk is
>> that they participated in the wrecking of Africa before they fled jungle
>> justice or they had buyer's remorse once they settled in their new western
>> homes. And they blame their personal delinquencies and inadequacies on the
>> west. I say they brush their teeth before they speak to me about Africa or
>> Africans. How you change a conversation about law and jurisprudence to a
>> defense of kagame is beyond me. kagame's person or character was not in
>> question......however you feel about the man. Extradition requests are
>> between Judicial branches and nations. Not between Presidents or other
>> idiots.
>>
>> Thank you again for your marked sobrieties Suntou.
>>
>> Haruna.
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: suntou touray <[log in to unmask]>
>> To: [log in to unmask]
>> Sent: Mon, Mar 22, 2010 6:17 am
>> Subject: Re: Fw: BBC E-mail: Rwanda accused win UK court case - PRECEDENT
>> FOR FORMER HIGH COURT JUDGE SAFIATOU NJIE?
>>
>> The gentle man who wishes to make some us look like uncaring Africans,
>> hence not qualify in advocating anything African should take a good at
>> himself and his place of domicile. Many a times we read and hear our
>> Pan-Africanist brothers resident in Europe and America for decades lecturing
>> us about Euro-American this and that on Africans.. How self-serving these
>> brothers are.
>>
>> If you wish to take the moral high ground on Africa, then do the decent
>> thing and parachute to the West, East, South or Central Africa, then try
>> screaming from the rooftop there, hopefully people will pay attention to the
>> nonsensical out pouring of cheap emotion. Some of this So call
>> Pan-Africanist hardly ever venture into Africa, yet they feel singing
>> Pan-Africa enough in making words relevant, give us a break.
>> The economist Magazine has nothing to lose or gain in the articles some of
>> its commentators write about Africa. Can we for once see things in their
>> right context instead fancying around hanging onto our own baggage of
>> partisan politics. If anyone is educated in the west, you must without a
>> question read books, be lectured by western professors and enjoy the western
>> way of live. What moral ground do you have to see others as less of an
>> African than you are? Below is the Economist Magazine's article on Kegame
>> and Rwanda. In fact the article acknowledge the level of financial
>> discipline the government of Kegame is instituting, yet the other facts
>> cannot be left unspoken about because one is doing something’s right and
>> other major wrongs. We should delineate cheap emotion from serious issues
>>
>>
>>
>> http://www.economist.com/world/middle-east/displaystory.cfm?story_id=15622375
>>
>> Progress and repression in Rwanda
>> Divisionists beware President Paul Kagame has improved people’s lives at
>> the expense of freedom
>> Mar 4th 2010 | NAIROBI | From *The Economist* print edition
>> Kagame, progressive and repressive
>> THE government of Rwanda is doing a lot of things right. It is pretty open
>> in its handling of aid money. Most foreign governments and charities are so
>> impressed by its detailed plans and apparent lack of corruption that they
>> are funnelling more of their aid directly through Rwanda’s government.
>> President Paul Kagame says he expects direct budget support to rise by a
>> quarter this year, to $519m.
>> The country has recovered valiantly from its year zero in 1994, when
>> 800,000 Tutsis and moderate Hutus were slaughtered. Its centralised state is
>> leading the way in economic and technological reform in the region. It is
>> improving the country’s infrastructure, education and farming, and seeks to
>> preserve its ecology. It pushes equality for women, who comprise half the
>> government and parliament.
>> On the diplomatic front, Mr Kagame has been equally successful. He has
>> sent troops to help keep the peace in Sudan’s Darfur province and elsewhere.
>> He has stood up to mighty France, blaming it, as the region’s then most
>> influential Western power, for failing to prevent the genocide. And last
>> month the French president, Nicolas Sarkozy, came to Rwanda and offered
>> something close to an apology. France, he said, had committed “grave errors
>> of judgment” before, during, and after the genocide. Questions linger about
>> the role of French special forces during the killing, as well as the fate of
>> Hutus living in France whom Rwanda wants extradited on suspicion of
>> involvement in the genocide.
>> France, for its part, has not dropped charges against some members of Mr
>> Kagame’s government who are alleged to have ordered the shooting down of a
>> French aircraft carrying Rwanda’s then president, Juvénal Habyarimana, a
>> Hutu; that action triggered the genocide. Yet both countries now appear more
>> at ease with each other. Days after Mr Sarkozy’s visit, Mr Habyarimana’s
>> widow, Agathe, was arrested near Paris (and then freed on bail) for
>> questioning over her alleged role in the genocide. French businessmen came
>> in Mr Sarkozy’s slipstream, eyeing minerals and timber in neighbouring
>> Congo, for which Rwanda is a conduit. “There is no doubt this is a
>> reconciliation,” says a Rwandan government figure.
>> Yet awkward question-marks hang over Mr Kagame and his ruling Rwandan
>> Patriotic Front. The president’s detractors say his party has not owned up
>> to killing thousands of civilians immediately after the genocide or to
>> responsibility for causing much bloodshed in Congo, which it invaded in
>> order to hunt down the *génocidaires* who had fled there. The Congolese
>> government, it may be noted, has co-operated with the Rwandans in their more
>> recent incursions into Congo.
>> Mr Kagame and his government are stifling political and press freedom in
>> advance of a presidential election due in August. He is almost certain to
>> win but evidently he is determined to secure a big majority to implement his
>> “one Rwanda” policies. Opposition parties have been forbidden to “use words
>> or facts that defame other politicians”. In practice, the government can
>> label any criticism against it as “divisionism”, which entitles it to lock
>> up the offenders. Members of the opposition say they are spied on and
>> bullied.
>> It is unclear whether the government will let the Democratic Green Party,
>> a feisty new opposition group, be registered. If not, the Greens say they
>> will back another lot, the Socialist Party-Imberakuri, which should be able
>> to run a presidential candidate. The head of a third opposition party, the
>> United Democratic Forces-Inkingi, Victoire Ingabire, says she has been
>> vilified since returning from exile in January. The government, she says,
>> has encouraged people to assault her, accusing her of being a *
>> génocidaire*. This week a former military intelligence chief, Kayumba
>> Nyamwasa, who was reported to have joined the Greens, fled Rwanda and is
>> said to be claiming asylum in South Africa. The government says he is wanted
>> on criminal charges—presumably divisionism.
>> End.
>> Going back to our own dictators corridors, What is it that his supporter
>> are fuming against us about? They are saying, the man is a dictator of
>> development and that he is fighting against corruption. He has given women
>> more power and rights. His Vice-President is a woman. At some point in his
>> government, there were more women in his government as Ministers than the
>> previous administration. All that the gentleman is promoting Kegame for,
>> Yahya Jammeh was once hail with those same things.
>> Should there be any reason for the cubing of civil rights and plurality of
>> views?
>> Is Kegame himself innocent of pumping tribal issues in politics? In fact,
>> Kegame's men in the army including the high ranking female officer play the
>> card more than many others. Check their own Google images Mr Gentleman. I
>> have seen images of the Rwandan army's latest incursion of Congo, the
>> close senior officers bragging about their prejudicial influences. These
>> things aren’t as simple as the gentleman is making it out to be.
>> Nothing should compromise tolerant co-existence, and the opposition views
>> is a key part to ensuring the population is represented at all levels.
>> Kegame's propaganda alone shouldn't be listened to at the expense of others.
>> He should be commended for lots of things, but he also needs to understand
>> that framing words against his opponent is not healthy for the future
>> stability of the country. Some of us are less of a Pan-African, however, we
>> know the working of a genuine democracy. Advocates of Europeanism live in
>> Europe. let our Pan-African folks migrate to Africa, instead of crying wolf
>> in western towns and cities.
>> Let not your bias of folks make you blind to their views. Stop been haste
>> over public issues. Take a deep breath and read the material before jumping
>> to conclusion.
>> LJ, thanks for your sober and intelligent analysis always. Long may we
>> have many non-partisan like you. Speaking the facts regardless of who it
>> come from. Saddly, folks here seems to look at names, party afilliation,
>> some ignoble little gangs before saying anything tangible. You have
>> shown to be above such petty mantra.
>> Suntou
>> Suntou
>>
>>
>> On Sun, Mar 21, 2010 at 9:28 PM, Lamin Darbo <[log in to unmask]>wrote:
>>
>>> Mboge
>>>
>>> You are absolutely right that "Four men accused of taking part in the
>>> 1994 Rwandan genocide win their High Court battle against extradition" was
>>> "strictly premised on the significance of the Legal precedence it sets for
>>> 'fugitives' claiming to be escaping persecution". Specifically, I was
>>> thinking about Justice Safiatou Njie (Justice Njie) and whether The Gambia
>>> Government is likely to succeed in having her extradited by the UK.
>>>
>>> Although her alleged crimes are not political, the whole mechanism of
>>> Gambian justice is heavily entangled in political calculations. She is not
>>> likely to get a fair trial, and as a requirement of Article 6 of the
>>> European Convention of Human Rights (ECHR), now statutorily incorporated
>>> into UK law by the Human Rights Act 1998 (HRA 1998), her chance of eluding
>>> extradition is looking good.
>>>
>>> Even as the Rwandan decision is a brilliant exemplification of the rule
>>> of law, I have to agree with you that the High Court decision was a
>>> difficult one on moral grounds. I am unsure why Rwanda did not seek their
>>> extradition for onward delivery to the International Criminal Tribunal
>>> Rwanda (ICTR), based in the Tanzanian city of Arusha.
>>>
>>> For Rwanda, it should not matter where these alleged criminals are
>>> prosecuted. The evidence is suggestive of some involvement by all four in
>>> the '94 genocide. In that case, common sense would dictate that they be
>>> prosecuted for their alleged crimes, and where found legally culpable,
>>> adequately punished.
>>>
>>> Undoubtedly, the political arm of government was keen to have them
>>> extradited, but the Judiciary blocked that wish on the explicit command of
>>> both European, and UK law.
>>> Stated differently, the High Court probably hated the outcome, but there
>>> was a clear obligation to implement the law as it is. You are right that
>>> under other circumstances, these laws can work quite well for "genuine
>>> asylum seekers". This particular decision was nevertheless quite agonising.
>>>
>>> As to Kagame, I defer to your expertise on the man, and his vision. What
>>> he must do, and this sooner than he may prefer, is to create an environment
>>> that allows his vision to incrementally mature even as he himself no longer
>>> leads Rwanda. No one person can fully develop a country, and in my view,
>>> this means that every African leader, and, or, ruler, must come to terms
>>> with his/her own mortality. Only then will a mighty continent actualise its
>>> great potential by making use of the major part of the talent at its
>>> disposal.
>>>
>>> Many thanks for a fine response, and advocacy.
>>>
>>> Do you think the Gambia's extradition request regarding Justice Njie
>>> should succeed?
>>>
>>> Regards
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> LJDarbo
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --- On *Sun, 21/3/10, Modou Mboge <[log in to unmask]>* wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> From: Modou Mboge <[log in to unmask]>
>>> Subject: Re: Fw: BBC E-mail: Rwanda accused win UK court case - PRECEDENT
>>> FOR FORMER HIGH COURT JUDGE SAFIATOU NJIE?
>>> To: [log in to unmask]
>>> Date: Sunday, 21 March, 2010, 17:38
>>>
>>>
>>> LJD,
>>>
>>> I guess your sharing the judgement on the Rwandans by the High Court of
>>> the UK was strictly premised on the significance of the Legal precedence it
>>> sets for 'fugitives' claiming to be escaping persecution. I hope it is not
>>> presumptuous of me that you had in mind the Gambian female judicial employee
>>> currently in the UK apparently running away from Gambian justice *a la
>>> Jammeh when you shared the ruling.* I assume that it is no rocket
>>> science that this ruling will provide protection for the corrupt criminals,
>>> *genocidaires and their apologists* from being brought to justice where
>>> it matters *ie* where their alleged crimes were committed.
>>>
>>> It seems the so-called High Court Judges are more concerned with the
>>> human rights of vile *genocidaires* than those genuine asylum seekers
>>> whose fear of being killed and tortured in their homeland is consistently
>>> ignored and questioned and in some instances ridiculed by Western media
>>> pandering to the right-wing politics of the *"other*" coming *to take
>>> our jobs and scrounging on our generous welfare systems. *Im no lawyer
>>> but i hope this ruling also can be useful to genuine asylum seekers.
>>>
>>>
>>> Reading a response to the article you shared by our *"descerner extraordinaire
>>> on this forum" *comparing our criminal outfit headed by a deranged
>>> buffoon in the person of SHEPAD Jammeh gave me zits as well as being
>>> squirmish for a while.
>>>
>>> The realities of Gambia and Rwanda are markedly different. Kagame and
>>> Jammeh are poles apart. Kagame is a smart and patriotic leader, a
>>> visionary engaged in healing a traumatized people, one fighting a good fight
>>> in ushering in a new nation based on functioning institutions. The howling
>>> on this *divisionism by the Economist *is in my view an
>>> irrelevant unworthy distraction. Kagame should take no advise or lecturing
>>> from a rabidly anti-African magazine that once ran a feature cover story by
>>> Richard Dowden on Africa*: The Hopeless Continent. *It may be true that
>>> many an African country is marred by hunger, conflict and strife yet i have
>>> no doubt that if anything the African peoples are mostly hopeful and
>>> optimistic about the future. This may be sometimes wrongly attributed to
>>> fatalism.
>>>
>>> Of course there still remains a lot to be done in terms of democracy and
>>> human rights in Rwanda but one must acknowledge the giant strides already
>>> achieved in relation to these ideals. It is work in progress that is being
>>> managed very well under extremely difficult circumstances.* Rwanda
>>> under Kagame boast one of the most enlightened gender equality legislatures
>>> in the world.* And this goes beyond just symbolic balancing of the
>>> sexes in terms of representation (given that 33% of the
>>> Rwandan Parliament is female) in politics. Women compete and participate in
>>> all sectors of Rwanda society. There is evidence of substantive and
>>> particapatory democracy in everyday life of the ordinary Rwandan. The
>>> economy in Rwanda is booming, civil society is being built and their
>>> advocacy left, right and centre permeates in and at all levels of
>>> society. Under Kagame's Rwanda a state by all standards that failed, has
>>> emerged way ahead of many African countries in terms of health care access
>>> to its denizens. There is national health insurance for virtually all
>>> Rwandans. With Rwanda now on the right path to development and substantive
>>> participatory democracy i join the hoard of admirers wishing the Kagame
>>> juggernaut to keep steaming ahead. I do also hope that the juggernaut also
>>> destroys and annihilate all the negative forces trying to block
>>> it especially those coated in ethnicity. Ethnicity is important but not to
>>> the detriment of building a prosperous Rwandan nation that concerns herself
>>> with providing peace, prosperity and progress to its people.
>>>
>>> There exists a genuine concern by those trying to deny the *horrid
>>> genocide that took place in 1994.* Politicians such as Victoire Ingabire
>>> Umuhoza trying to play on ethnic sentiments must be reigned in. This does
>>> not mean that people should be denied the right to associate with the ethnic
>>> skirt they want to wear as long as it is not to villify or create
>>> schisms between and among their brethren and sisters. Afterall the Tutsi
>>> and Hutu are from the same family of Bantu-speaking peoples. But if not
>>> for a sad historical constructionism perpetrated by colonialists based
>>> on banal concepts such as the *Hamitic Hypothesis , the Tutsi-Hutu *dichotomous
>>> relationship might have been avoided*. *I shall not suffer the esteem
>>> lot of this forum on the nitty-gritty of this racist hypothesis which helped
>>> in the pogroms of the Tutusis in 1959 and the genocide of 1994.
>>>
>>>
>>> We have seen the shenanigans of France and some other northern
>>> governments trying to stifle the progress and development of Rwanda since
>>> the RPF came into power. I will have Kagame any day as my leader compared
>>> to the rogues we have splattered across our wounded continent irresponsibly
>>> abusing the noble ideals of democracy and human rights.
>>>
>>> Best,
>>>
>>> Mboge
>>>
>>> **
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Sun, Mar 21, 2010 at 7:56 AM, suntou touray <[log in to unmask]<[log in to unmask]" target="_blank">http:[log in to unmask]>
>>> > wrote:
>>>
>>>> LJ, reading the economies Magazine edition of last week, i can see
>>>> similar tactics in the arena of suppression of opposition views in Rwanda to
>>>> that our own mad man. Kegame's government invented a dangerous term *
>>>> 'divisionist'.* This term is label against opponents of the government
>>>> with the country's sad past. The genocidal past was trigger by tribal
>>>> sentiment, hence the divisionist concept.
>>>> It is interesting how our guys invent this sinister strategies to
>>>> suppress alternative views. Key members of the opposition are regularly
>>>> accused of being guilty of genocide, a tack one is unable to free
>>>> himself from.
>>>> Suntou
>>>>
>>>> On Fri, Mar 19, 2010 at 12:18 AM, Lamin Darbo <
>>>> [log in to unmask]<[log in to unmask]" target="_blank">http:[log in to unmask]>
>>>> > wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> --- On *Fri, 19/3/10, LJD <[log in to unmask]<[log in to unmask]" target="_blank">http:[log in to unmask]>
>>>>> >* wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> From: LJD <[log in to unmask]<[log in to unmask]" target="_blank">http:[log in to unmask]>
>>>>> >
>>>>> Subject: BBC E-mail: Rwanda accused win UK court case
>>>>> To: [log in to unmask]<[log in to unmask]" target="_blank">http:[log in to unmask]>
>>>>> Date: Friday, 19 March, 2010, 0:08
>>>>>
>>>>> LJD saw this story on the BBC News website and thought you
>>>>> should see it.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> ** Rwanda accused win UK court case **
>>>>> Four men accused of taking part in the 1994 Rwandan genocide win their
>>>>> High Court battle against extradition
>>>>> < http://news.bbc.co.uk/go/em/fr/-/1/hi/uk/7989534.stm >
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> ** BBC Daily E-mail **
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>>>>
>>>> ¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤ To
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>>>>
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