Ginny,

Thanks for making an attempt to quote Moore where he equated Arabs and Islam, but it seems to me that you are ascribing to him things that he did not say at all.

What you showed in quotes and ascribed to Moore are the words of Anson Musselman and not Moore. Where Anson Musselman directly quoted Moore the words are in quotation marks. Go back and read the article. The following are comments by Anson Musselman as preamble to the article:

"...The Arab Model

Moore in his youth set out to find what historical
events led to the establishment of a racial hierarchy
in Latin America, where race mixing is the norm, yet
lightness and darkness of skin still matters. His
findings led him to believe that the paradigms of race
in Latin America are directly descended from the time
when Arabs controlled the Iberian Peninsula, the
homeland of Spanish and Portuguese colonialism in the
Americas.

Arabs successfully invaded the Iberian Peninsula
(today Spain and Portugal) in 711 CE. The Moorish
culture that was established was known as Andalusia.
By the late 1200s Christian armies had expelled the
majority of Muslims from Iberia...."

Then he goes on to quote Moore and note that this is in quotation marks in the original piece:
"I have had the privilege to have lived in Arab
countries," Moore said, "and to be shocked by the
extraordinary similarities to Latin America of
structures of race in countries like Egypt. It was
familiar ground. I was twenty-one, had just left Cuba.
I lived in Egypt for a year. I was surprised to see
how it was as though I had not left Cuba except for
the fact that they spoke Arabic and adhered to the
Muslim religion. From then on I began to study the
structures of race relations in the Arab countries in
a comparative way with relations in the Iberian
Peninsula and Latin America. That became my focus."

The rest of the piece consists of a series of comments by Anson Musselman himself and quotes from Moore.
Even though the word Islam is mentioned, nowhere is it directly quoted from Moore's.

Again, the gist of Moore's lecture was 'Arab and Latino racism'. Period! He was not even misquoted using Arab and Islam interchangeably, in fact he was never quoted using the word 'Islam'.

Since you keep harping about being compared to Yaya Jammeh I would be glad if you can let me know who compared you with him. I wrote:

"...For me one is not religious or God-fearing by merely wearing their
religion on their sleeve. If it should be so, Yaya Jammeh would be one of
the most religious people in the whole world, for he sports a rosary
longer than that of Ayatolah Khomeni and dresses like the Sultan of
Sokoto...."

If you see yourself in this remark it's fine by me.

Regards,

Kabir


Ginny Quick <[log in to unmask]> wrote:


Ginny Quick <[log in to unmask]> wrote:The following is the first quote where he mentions "Muslims".

>Arabs successfully invaded the Iberian Peninsula
>(today Spain and Portugal) in 711 CE. The Moorish
>culture that was established was known as Andalusia.
>By the late 1200s Christian armies had expelled the
>majority of Muslims from Iberia.
>


What is interesting to me, is that first, he mentions how "Arabs"
conquered the Iberian Peninsula, but in the last sentence, says how
"Muslims", were driven out by the Christian armies? Being that he
seems to be using the two words "Arab" and "Muslim" interchangeably,
who is the one confusing "Arab" with "Muslim". Or else, were there
Arabs left over after the "Muslims" were driven out?

Also he goes on to say:

>I lived in Egypt for a year. I was surprised to see
>how it was as though I had not left Cuba except for
>the fact that they spoke Arabic and adhered to the
>Muslim religion. From then on I began to study the
>structures of race relations in the Arab countries in
>a comparative way with relations in the Iberian
>Peninsula and Latin America. That became my focus."

While the vast majority of people in Egypt were Muslims, what is
the point of bringing up Islam here? If he's only talking about Arab
culture, why bring up religion? There seems to be an underlying
assumption here, by him, not me, that Muslim = Arab, because he
himself seems to be using the two words interchangeably, in at least
one part of the article.

>Moore sees the export of Arab-model slavery and race
>relations to the New World by the Spanish and
>Portuguese, who had absorbed it during the Muslim
>occupation of Iberia.

OK, again, he's using the two words "Arab" and "Muslim"
interchangeably. First, he talks about the "Arab Model" of slavery,
and then talks about the "Muslim occupation" of the Iberian Peninsula.
If there was a difference between "Arab" and "Muslim", he should have
pointed it out. Or, why not use the phrase "the Arab occupation"?
Whatever the case,he did mention "Muslims" and "Islam", so I think my
reading comprehension is quite good, thank you very much.

"The conquest of America begins
>when the Arabs are expelled from this part of the
>world by Europeans."

And here, he definitely confirms my point, that he's using the
words "Arab" and "Muslim" interchangeably, so I'd like to know who is
getting the two terms confused? I don't think it's me! It's also
interesting to know that he also uses the terms "Christian" and
"European" interchangeably as well.

Later on in the article, he goes on further to say that:

In Arab
>societies there are all sorts of ranks. There are
>infidels, those who are believers, and the mulatto
>category which is viewed as a ladder for ascension."
>

What is he talking about here? When he mentions "infidels", who
is he talking about? Or Believers? Believers in what? Given that
he's already used the term "Muslim" and Arab" interchangeably, I'd
have to conclude that he's referring to Muslim belief?

As far as the points he makes regarding race relations
themselves, I have no argument with what he has to say about that, in
and of itself. It's the seeming way that he uses "Arab" and "Muslim"
as if they mean the same thing, that I think I, and the other lady,
whose comments I posted, had a problem with. I don't think either one
of us were trying to insinuate that "Arab" and "Muslim" meant the same
thing, or that we are confusing the two. In fact, it seems to be Mr.
Moore who is doing so. Not us!

As far as the other "irrelevant" issues, I'd consider them "side
issues", rather than "Irrelevant ones". Given the direction the
discussion was going, or I should say, the direction that I chose to
take the discussion, I feel the issues were relevant, else I'd not
have brought them up.

I still think it's funny that I've been compared to Jammeh, not
only because of any outward religiosity or piety on my part, but also
because, since I didn't understand the article, in the same way that
you did, that my intelligence, comprehension, and even my honesty has
been called into question.






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