Hey! I got some serious work to do... so am moving on and not wasting my
time.. Thanks for the distraction but I will be reading and watching..now
you can go hang yourselves. Am out!

Demba


On Wed, Aug 7, 2013 at 10:56 AM, Modou Mboge <[log in to unmask]>wrote:

> Demba,
>
> *IF THERE IS ANY NEED FOR SOMEONE LOOKING PROPERLY IN THE MIRROR, DAMN IT
> IS YOU.  YOU CLAIM TO BE LOOKING, YET IT SEEMS YOU ARE SEEING SOMETHING
> DIFFERENT OR MAYBE YOU ARE ENJOYING YOUR SELF ADULATION.  NONSENSE.  WHAT A
> DRAG!*
>
> Mboge
>
>
>
> On Wed, Aug 7, 2013 at 7:12 PM, Demba Baldeh <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>
>> Joe, my problem is no bigger than yours. My sermon to Daffeh could
>> actually benefit you as well and many of us... You personally seems to be
>> the one always in the right going after every Tom Dick and Harry on matters
>> of morality and righteousness... All that glitter is not goal (mirror)...
>>
>> My point has always been what we need more of are ideas and
>> collaborations on how we get the heck out of the situation we are in...
>> blaming people and beating every issue to dead makes good forum
>> entertainment and perhaps relieves egos and being boxed in... but it
>> doesn't take us anywhere... It was Joe on Imam Baba Leigh, it was Joe on
>> the Opposition, it was Joe on the Lawyers, it was Joe on PhDs and just
>> everywhere...You make good entertainment but not helping advance
>> anything.... What is needed more from a highly pure person like you is
>> ideas on how we move forward... Mark you everything we have done before did
>> not get the job done... so no lectures on retirement...too soon..
>>
>> Bottom line, you have been pettier than anybody on this forum to the
>> extend of getting into nasty exchanges with young ones you can mentor...
>> Enough of the blame game, let's focus on the task at hand and also realize
>> we too are human thus the mirror... let's face the reality with ideas and
>> solutions... Thanks
>>
>> Demba
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Aug 7, 2013 at 6:59 AM, suntou touray <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>>
>>> Demba
>>> It seems you forgot about the mantra of the proverbial preacher. The key
>>> starting point is 'I myself is included in everything I say' Hence, us here
>>> are the Gambia's educated, we are a portion of the lot. This means, we are
>>> including ourselves in every single conversation. On the subject of Drs and
>>> PhDs, not to sound dismissive, I agree with the notions flying around. They
>>> are folks who have specialised, tailored their academic interested, albeit
>>> deeper in a niche area. So in that case, they are not Jack of all trade,
>>> they are jerk of a trade.
>>> I guess, because few of our folks focus on a line of education, we make
>>> them a big deal, but seriously, it doesn't change people...
>>>
>>> The greater burden is on the masses..Thanks
>>> Suntou
>>>
>>> On Wed, Aug 7, 2013 at 7:45 AM, Demba Baldeh <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Interesting... well, now that we dealt with everybody from the PhD's;
>>>> Imams to the street beggars; it is about time we look in the mirror and
>>>> deal with ourselves... Just saying...
>>>>
>>>> Eid Mubarak in advance...
>>>>
>>>> Demba
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Tue, Aug 6, 2013 at 6:02 PM, Joe Joe <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>  Khaleel, thanks for your response and clarification. That was my
>>>>> take and since you reiterated that, that is not where you were headed, that
>>>>> is sufficient for me. Now, you have been around and know that we have dealt
>>>>> with the Supreme Islamic Council, BAR Association, opposition leaders,
>>>>> Priests, Village Heads, and I can go on and on and the who is who in
>>>>> Gambian society. So, it baffles me that with all that background you will
>>>>> think that only a few PhDs are put on the chopping block or to bear our
>>>>> weight. We cannot talk about all of them in one sitting, but nonetheless,
>>>>> we shall discuss all those found wanting and in time. Unfortunately, ours
>>>>> is like trying to fill a basket with water - there are too many of such
>>>>> characters to last us a lifetime, but it is a fight we must continue as we
>>>>> fight to take back Gambia.
>>>>>
>>>>> Joe
>>>>>
>>>>> ------------------------------
>>>>> Date: Tue, 6 Aug 2013 19:45:58 -0400
>>>>>
>>>>> From: [log in to unmask]
>>>>> Subject: Re: [G_L] Khaleel and co under attack: Gambian Drs and PhD
>>>>> holders not the solution then: Who is David Bansama
>>>>> To: [log in to unmask]
>>>>>
>>>>>  Joe,
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> You are absolutely entitled to your opinion especially your
>>>>> interpretation of any literature. I read what David wrote and you read it
>>>>> as well. It is not uncommon for both of us to come to a different
>>>>> conclusion. I understand the issues you have with them and I share some of
>>>>> your sentiments.
>>>>>
>>>>> It is wrong by any measure for anyone to chase fame and fortune while
>>>>> sacrificing personal courage, integrity and basic human decency and then
>>>>> turn around to attempt to lead a crusade against someone you decided to get
>>>>> cozy with and serve.
>>>>>
>>>>> My conscience cannot let me condone to that but we can't make a
>>>>> mistake though, to narrow that conversation to a few PHD/DR holders “so
>>>>> called intellectuals” in our society.
>>>>>
>>>>> There are many things wrong in our society and a whole lot of people
>>>>> are contributing to what is wrong in the Gambia, a lot more than the few
>>>>> so-called intellectuals. That doesn’t make it ok by any means for
>>>>> them to add salt to the wound either.
>>>>>
>>>>> How many positions are in Yaya’s government? Compare that to the few
>>>>> held by these PHD/DRs and you will have a lot more positions left filled by
>>>>> our brothers and sisters.
>>>>>
>>>>> Joe I am not in the business of defending a grown man/woman who can do
>>>>> that better for themselves. I gain nothing from that brother. I write and
>>>>> speak with conviction just like you and I am not too big to render apology
>>>>> when I am wrong. Please read my posting earlier today in response to David.
>>>>> Below is an extract from his article we are talking about:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> “He did not think of the average man who sees him and his Ph. D as a
>>>>> savior. He let them down. He did not see the poor farmer in Njain Sanjal,
>>>>> Badibu, Niumi, Jarra and Kiang looking up to them (the intellectuals/
>>>>> *Borom Hamham yi*) to save our small Gambia from the disaster it has
>>>>> already slid into. *Our intellectuals indeed!!!”.*
>>>>>
>>>>> * *
>>>>>
>>>>> I am not in the business of endorsing people or provide them lukewarm
>>>>> excuses but I respect people for their views and opinions. I wrote
>>>>> about this particular article exactly how I understood it. I follow your
>>>>> postings here and I know you are a very opinionated person, a quality we
>>>>> share. I guess we will just have a difference in opinion on this one. Stay
>>>>> blessed.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Khaleel
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Date: Tue, 6 Aug 2013 17:25:36 -0500
>>>>> From: [log in to unmask]
>>>>> Subject: Re: [G_L] Khaleel and co under attack: Gambian Drs and PhD
>>>>> holders not the solution then: Who is David Bansama
>>>>> To: [log in to unmask]
>>>>>
>>>>> Khaleel, I think there is a slight difference between the gist of your
>>>>> write-up against what David said with respect to expectations we have
>>>>> regarding PhDs. None is giving them one more pond of any load to carry much
>>>>> more total responsibility of our burden. Myissue with these guys is they
>>>>> sold their soul, got kicked out, and then have the nerve to portray
>>>>> themselves as our libertors, to which some of us told them to get lost. How
>>>>> is that expecting them to shoulder our responsibility? We are dwelling on
>>>>> the behavior of these guys for their attempts on us and the lies they carry
>>>>> with them. The issue is not whether they are human and circumstance, but
>>>>> talking about their character and behavior just like we do daily with Yaya.
>>>>> There are no sacred cows here and if there are any left then a notice is
>>>>> being served, for we will expose them. Your main gist is what threw me a
>>>>> curve ball, because it can be viewed as a lukewarm defense or left hand
>>>>> endorsement of some of these characters. That may not have been your
>>>>> intent, but that is how it came across to me in the main.
>>>>>
>>>>> Joe
>>>>>
>>>>> ------------------------------
>>>>> Date: Tue, 6 Aug 2013 12:38:15 -0400
>>>>> From: [log in to unmask]
>>>>> Subject: Re: [G_L] Khaleel and co under attack: Gambian Drs and PhD
>>>>> holders not the solution then: Who is David Bansama
>>>>> To: [log in to unmask]
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Thanks Sountou for sharing yet another piece from David.  I know
>>>>> David is reading, below is my response:
>>>>>
>>>>> David,
>>>>>
>>>>> Thanks for taking the time out whether to elaborate more on your
>>>>> points or to repeat/clarify points previously made that I obviously missed.
>>>>> I still stand by what my interpretation of your article was and I am
>>>>> certain you will do the same as well. Words have meanings and meanings can
>>>>> be flexible at times depending on who is reading or writing. To me, your
>>>>> list associated those individuals to a high degree of responsibility or
>>>>> lack of to our national development. While you, the readers and I may have
>>>>> some minor differences on use of words, concept and interpretation which
>>>>> won’t go away, I will like to focus on what we agree on if that’s ok with
>>>>> you.
>>>>> I think we are saying the same thing here for the most part David. We
>>>>> both don’t expect the PHD/DRs to be the agent of change in our country; we
>>>>> both agree that given their intellectual capacity, they should play a role
>>>>> worthy of emulation in this time of despair. We also agree that the
>>>>> responsibility of our nation building rests in the hands of many not few.
>>>>>  These are pretty significant things we agree on and I pray that our
>>>>> deeds match our words for the most rather than the few who will shoulder
>>>>> this crusade to lead our nation in the near future. I also pray for all of
>>>>> us to be steadfast, humble, respect one another and reason well with each
>>>>> other. I look forward to reading more from you. Have a blessed day and
>>>>> happy eid in advance.
>>>>>
>>>>> Khaleel
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>  ------------------------------
>>>>> Date: Tue, 6 Aug 2013 12:15:29 +0100
>>>>> From: [log in to unmask]
>>>>> Subject: [G_L] Khaleel and co under attack: Gambian Drs and PhD
>>>>> holders not the solution then: Who is David Bansama
>>>>> To: [log in to unmask]
>>>>>
>>>>> Gambian intellectuals Are Not Agents of Change
>>>>> <http://kibaaro.com/gambian-intellectuals-are-not-agents-of-change/>
>>>>> Reads :274
>>>>> *OURS IS A CRUSADE TO CLEANSE* *OUR SOCIETY OF THESE PARASITES
>>>>> *
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> *By David Bansama*
>>>>> *“David is over stretching their role……. The expectation that less
>>>>> than one percent of our population should shoulder the responsibility to
>>>>> lead and effect change because they attained the highest level of education
>>>>> is not real” – Says Khaleel Jameel on Gambia L*
>>>>>
>>>>> When I wrote my piece last week, I knew (and expected) it would
>>>>> generate a lot of discourse because it is not the norm (to talk in less
>>>>> favourable terms about people held in reverence) in our milieu. What I did
>>>>> not expect, however, was an attempt (whether by design or default) to infer
>>>>> meanings into my piece which I have not inferred. Thank God, I am still
>>>>> alive, I will go back to re-iterate my position.
>>>>>
>>>>> Learning from history, I have never expected the Gambian Ph. Ds (or
>>>>> intellectuals) to be the agents of change in our country (even though they
>>>>> can) and I have never expected them to “shoulder the responsibility”. We
>>>>> learnt from history that in societies where change was effected, it was
>>>>> usually the common man who took the lead. For instance, the popular French
>>>>> Revolution was led by the common man; the American war of Independence was
>>>>> not led by the Ph.Ds; the Russian revolt against the Czars was led by the
>>>>> common man; coming home, one of the Fathers of Gambia’s Independence, Sir
>>>>> Dawda Jawara; was first identified and chosen by the common man to
>>>>> represent them. Even at that, he hesitated and contemplated possible
>>>>> financial losses especially as a family man (stated by Sir Dawda in his own
>>>>> book). Some of the members that attended the Marlborough Conference to
>>>>> discuss Gambia’s independence were barely literate. In recent times, the
>>>>> change that Brazil, one of the emerging markets (BRICS), is experiencing
>>>>> was initiated by Lula Da Silva who is not a Ph.D but a common Trade
>>>>> Unionist from the masses; Hugo Chavez (despite Western vilification)
>>>>> brought immense changes to his country for the common man and he did it
>>>>> without attaining a Ph.D. The man that everybody loves (Nelson Mandela)
>>>>> changed the course of history in South Africa without attaining a Ph. D.
>>>>> Likewise, all the Gambian Liberation Movements (as numerous as they are)
>>>>> were not initiated by Gambian Ph.Ds. Please correct me if I am wrong. These
>>>>> “intellectuals” are usually the comfortable lot who like lording it over
>>>>> the rest after the battle had been fought and won. Let me just give a
>>>>> casual example here: isn’t it interesting to see on Maafanta, the FB
>>>>> exchanges between our former Honourable Foreign Minister, Sidi Sanneh, who
>>>>> did not attend the events in Raleigh and Stockholm but wants quick results
>>>>> (in terms of reports) and is so brazen about it? He even trivializes the
>>>>> matter rather unwittingly (just like he did with Yahya Jammeh’s underpants)
>>>>> by zooming on the latest gadgets brought to the meetings, interestingly
>>>>> putting it in this rather de-meaning fashion “…*I did not attend
>>>>> either of the meetings but I was told about the fancy gadgets”.*Isn’t
>>>>> this cheap and petty for Sidi himself? Where were his brain and conscience
>>>>> at the time of penning this particular line? When I read it, I was tempted
>>>>> to ask: Was it gadgets that concerned you most about the meetings or the
>>>>> substance? How trivial and petty could one be?
>>>>>
>>>>> Having said the above, what I (and the majority of the
>>>>> poverty-stricken Gambians) do not, however, expect from our Ph.Ds and other
>>>>> “intellectuals” is *the aiding and abetting of the current Gambian
>>>>> dictatorship in brutalising our people because of their own selfish interest
>>>>> *. By the way, do you know there are some of these “intellectuals”
>>>>> who still clandestinely work with the Dictatorship in Banjul even after
>>>>> Jammeh had shown them the way out in the most cavalier manner?  We have
>>>>> full dossiers on most of them and, at the opportune time, will share it
>>>>> with the rest of our compatriots to buttress our point on how cheap but
>>>>> dangerous some of our “intellectuals” can be. It is not a threat. *Ours
>>>>> is a crusade in which we are determined to cleanse our society of these
>>>>> parasites*. All of the people I mentioned in my write-up joined the
>>>>> regime after Gambians have seen enough PHYSICAL EVIDENCE OF JAMMEH’s
>>>>> BRUTALITY. What more lessons did they need to understand that Jammeh is
>>>>> deranged and derailed, and therefore did not mean well for our people? With
>>>>> their supposed exposure and level of “education”, they ought to have known
>>>>> better. This was the thrust of my message and I thought it was crystal
>>>>> clear to even the most casual reader.
>>>>>
>>>>> Now flipping the debate in Khaleel’s way, even if we assumed “less
>>>>> than one percent of our population should shoulder the responsibility to
>>>>> lead and effect change because they attained the highest level of
>>>>> education”, this cannot still be considered an “over-stretching” of their
>>>>> role, especially if we take education as a means to better our societies.
>>>>> This is aptly conveyed to you at the point of getting your degrees for it
>>>>> is said you have been found “*worthy in learning and character*” to
>>>>> be conferred a Bachelors, Masters or a Ph.D. as the case may be. I believe,
>>>>> 50 Gambian PH.Ds (less than one percent of the Gambian population but with
>>>>> the right mindset and strength of character) selflessly working together,
>>>>> can bring immense benefit to our people. It is all about honesty,
>>>>> principles and patriotism (not the narrow and twisted definition as coined
>>>>> by our Professor in Banjul).
>>>>>
>>>>> With regards to the rest of what Khaleel said and emphasised “*Let’s
>>>>> not forget that these PHD/Doctorate holders are Gambians, they are packed
>>>>> with all flaws each and every Gambian of us has*”, I have already
>>>>> belaboured on this fact in both my opening and concluding paragraphs, so I
>>>>> need not repeat that. I would just refer you to these paragraphs to confirm
>>>>> for yourself what I have already said.
>>>>>
>>>>> I believe we should all be held accountable for our actions especially
>>>>> during these trying times.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> [image: Print Friendly]<http://www.printfriendly.com/print?url=http://kibaaro.com/gambian-intellectuals-are-not-agents-of-change/>
>>>>>   Share this:
>>>>>
>>>>>    -
>>>>>    <http://kibaaro.com/gambian-intellectuals-are-not-agents-of-change/#>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> www.suntoumana.blogspot.com¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤ To
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>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> *"Be the change you want to see in the World"*
>>>>  ¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤ To
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>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> www.suntoumana.blogspot.com¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤ To
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>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> *"Be the change you want to see in the World"*
>> ¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤ To
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>>
>
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-- 
*"Be the change you want to see in the World"*


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