Joe,

I did not know that Jolas could also be philosophers. You waxed quite
philosophical there, towards the end. I don't generally agree with Jolas,
especially of the AIDS-curing-claim types, but I do agree with you
especially on this one.

Baba

On Sun, Feb 24, 2013 at 1:19 PM, Joe Joe <[log in to unmask]> wrote:

>  Lamin, I think as a Lawyer it is acceptable to represent the likes of
> Mamburay Njie, just like a doctor would have treated him if he were
> tortured. That is the professional side of persons and the oath they took
> as members of a profession. As much as the world hated Idi Amin (worst case
> scenerio), however, when he was sick and later comatose, doctors who were
> aware of the carnage he levied on humanity treated him and even tried to
> prolong his life even though he terminated the living with no sweat. Yes,
> Mamburay was aware of violations of protected liberties of his fellow
> citizens, but he still deserves the cover or due process under the law.
> Problem is Yaya is the law in Gambia. I would even argue further that as
> individuals (friends, relatives, etc.) we can sympathize with Mamburay.
>
> It gets dicy when we enter the realm of a liberation struggle. That is
> where a concerted effort must be exercised in fighting against anyone who
> consciously sided with our oppressor. If the luck for the Mamburays of this
> world run out and they are now the caged, we would empathize with them as
> humans, Gambians, friends, etc., but I would not incur a massive headache
> over their affair. History taught us that had it not be for the change of
> fortunes, they'd be right there endorsing and co-signing all sorts. So,
> Lamin the activist stand on solid ground to not bat for friends or
> jettisoned friends of our oppressor. However, Lamin the Legal Practitioner
> should use his services to rescue the Mamburary's, despite. Good Lawyers
> are not measured by taking a bunch of slam dunk cases, but those that
> change lives and outcomes. If you rescue Mamburay from the jaws of the
> beast, you give him a second chance at life and self determination.
>
> I know there are those that think your enemy's enemy should be your
> friend. Not necessarily and it all depends. If your enemy's enemy has a
> hidden agenda contrary to your aspirations it is ill advised to view them
> as such. If that enemy also was on your side and later decided to mortgage
> their  soul for their wallet it is ill advised. If that enemy is still
> partial to your enemy it is foolish to consider them a friend. And if that
> enemy has plans to hijack an effort, they should not be allowed skew it to
> their favor when we know the selfish nature of that individual.
>
> Joe
>
>  ------------------------------
> Date: Sun, 24 Feb 2013 14:13:12 +0000
> From: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: Re: [G_L] BAIL IN GAMBIA AND SOUTH AFRICA
> To: [log in to unmask]
>
>  Joe
>
> My query is more generally based, i.e., whether you consider it acceptable
> for Gambian lawyers to represent the likes of Mamburay Njie whose
> antecedents as employees of Professor Jammeh suggest they have no respect
> for even the protected liberties of their fellow citizens.
>
>
>
> LJDarbo
>
>   ------------------------------
> *From:* Joe Joe <[log in to unmask]>
> *To:* [log in to unmask]
> *Sent:* Saturday, 23 February 2013, 23:49
> *Subject:* Re: [G_L] BAIL IN GAMBIA AND SOUTH AFRICA
>
>  Lamin, I have no doubt that Mamburay would be in good hands with your
> services and I will say go for it. Lawyer Camara is doing what he could
> given the situation he is put in. In a level playing field he is more than
> capable of holding his own and with you representing, the sweeter. The deck
> is stacked against him and it is him against what Yaya Jammeh wants. Look,
> D15,000,000 bail is too damn excessive even if there was a charge against
> Mamburay. We know he did not kill a fly? We also know he did not steal from
> Yaya? The only thing left that they could have in store for Mamburay is
> espionage, which is the "Poster Charge" in their arsenal these days. By the
> time they end up wasting his time, all they would do is line up some crooks
> in the shape of khelifa to organize a baalou session. This among many other
> examples is the reason why Gambians need to wake up from the nonsense they
> are engaged in. Where are all those that lined up daily to receive a
> trickle down from Mamburay? His fellow top of the food chian gang? They
> have all moved on to greener pastures or have new friends. And yes, "His
> Friends in the Legal profession" that he used to patronize, where are they?
>
> I am sure Mamburay knows what's up. He drank Ataya with Yaya and heard all
> the horror stories of what he did to people or what he can do to his
> perceived enemies. Mamburay has 18 years worth of evidence to know that no
> matter how long you hang around Yaya, your day will come, and it will be
> either at the hands of Yaya or the Gambian people. Each one of them had
> plenty of opportunity to deal with Yaya, but they had convinced themselves
> they knew Yaya and mistake those Afra sessions for friendship. No, the dude
> gives them plenty to eat and drink and be watching them when they are not
> looking. Remember, Yaya said he can read people's minds. His insane mind
> convinces him that he is really reading minds. In my neck of the woods, it
> is called paranoia. It does not help when people around Yaya are paralyzed
> with superstitious beliefs in Yaya's Super Natural powers. Remember the
> witchcraft assault, even some political party leaders spoke as if there are
> indeed witches in Gambia and couched it under the pretext that "The
> Population" believes in the existence of witchcraft. My question to them
> then and now is, what the hell do you believe?
>
> Back to the subject at hand, yes, you are more than capable of
> representing Mamburay or people in similar circumstances and you should
> consider that and you will have the support of everyone. Our brothers and
> sisters in the legal profession need to know that they got in the
> profession to be of service to the people and not only the government, or
> should I say Yaya Jammeh. You got my support 100% - Go for it. That is what
> it means to go and work for your people, not work for Yaya Jammeh as some
> schemers want us to believe.
>
> Joe
>
>  ------------------------------
> Date: Sat, 23 Feb 2013 16:45:58 +0000
> From: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: Re: [G_L] BAIL IN GAMBIA AND SOUTH AFRICA
> To: [log in to unmask]
>
>  Joe
>
> South Africa's rectification process continues, and yes, economic ability,
> i.e., mainly black-white divide, remains quite a significant factor in many
> issues South African. Of course I am in complete agreement with your
> assertion that "Gambians must no break their lunch for a heavy heart" for
> Mamburay.
>
> In the instant case, my query is limited to whether a D15 million bail in
> circumstances where no charge was preferred accords with the reasonableness
> standard of the 1997 Constitution. Mamburay's is part of a long line of
> cases and I think the issue of bail must go higher up the judicial chain of
> command for a clarification of the constitutional expectations.
>
> Who is representing Mamburay and his ilk when they got into trouble? The
> dynamic Lamin Camara of course, but I am in no doubt they kept him at a
> distance when all was going well for them. This means no government briefs
> for him because he would have been regarded as a troublemaker. Where are
> the lawyers they used to patronise with government briefs? Like some family
> and friends, they are seeking greener pastures elsewhere as, in their
> calculations, Mamburay's useful life in our public space is effectively
> over. They reckoned without considering the 'comeback' syndrome!
>
> Although I have no political sympathies for Mamburay and his ilk, I'd be
> more than happy to offer him  the best possible representation before a
> criminal court if my services are required by people similarly situated,
> including of course ......  What do you think?
>
>
>
> LJDarbo
>
>
>
>
>
>   ------------------------------
> *From:* Joe Joe <[log in to unmask]>
> *To:* [log in to unmask]
> *Sent:* Saturday, 23 February 2013, 0:53
> *Subject:* Re: [G_L] BAIL IN GAMBIA AND SOUTH AFRICA
>
>  Lamin, a good contrast indeed. In SA they have a functioning Judiaciary
> but that has not always been the case, other wise Apartheid would not have
> lasted that long. The Boers dictated who went in and who stayed out. Post
> Apartheid, I will say that their Judiaciary is functioning for the "West"
> insisted that, that be the case to support the survival of the whites. So,
> the bail of 73,000 pounds I presume is according to precedent and the rest
> of the world is watching. Now, I am certain that if he was black and poor
> without a high flying legal team that he would have ate breakfast at home.
> It is not yet a color and class blind society.
>
> In Gambia, a different beast in its own right, that is not the case. The
> Judiciary is not functional and one man and one man alone rules - Yaya. He
> says you stay and you not only stay but the enablers will intepret that you
> rot in there. So, if Yaya dictates D15,000,000 then that it will be.
> Remember Hassan Touray of Pristine? When the original bail amount was
> easily tendered, it got jerked up. For what its worth, that is why America
> and its claims of democracy, loves to deal with Dictators - they are One
> Stop Shop, all you cand carry.
>
> Now transitioning to Mamburay. As an associate of Yaya for a long while,
> he has seen many people in his current shoes and some rotted or died in
> jail. Did he feel their pain? Did he stand up to defend their rights? Did
> he protest the many murders, abductions, mutilations, ect.? Did he quit in
> protest? Injustice by Yaya on Gambians did not just start when Mamburay was
> in jail, oh no. Our people lived with it the last 18 years and he was aware
> of it, yet he continued to collect a pay check. Now that he is in, must
> Gambians break their lunch for a heavy heart? A people that take the daily
> bread so serious that not even the murder of their loved one will stop a
> family from seeking benovelence (crumbs) from their murderer - Yaya. I
> don't think so. I have noticed a pattern with our folks. Mambaray being a
> likeable guy as a youngster and may be ran the streets with some in Banjul
> and Sere Kunda, folks tend to paint a rosy picture of him and even go to
> the extent of absolving him of anything that is wrong with Yaya and his
> gang. Folks, Mamburay is not a worthier son than Chief Manneh, the
> students, and the countless that perished in the hands of his former
> friend. Yes, an injustice to one Gambian is an injustice to all Gambians.
> As they say, Mamburay warronaa soraleh neh besam di nah nyow. He also knew
> that if his friend took him in all will be about their business, Com Nagne
> Kor Dan Defeh Rek Bam Nekeh Chi Kerr You Baaxhi, as Ndoe Secka used to quib.
>
> Disclosure - Do I know Mamburay? Without a doubt. We played soccer
> together and against each other and I know the family very well and it
> pains me like many Gambians to see his rights abused. However, others
> rights were abused too when he was in a position to have the ear of their
> Abuser. Did he do anything about the countless things that happened while
> he was there? It is an irony that Imam Baba Leigh's brother hung with
> Mamburay and today the brother lost both a brother and a friend at the
> hands of a common abuser - Yaya. No one could have predicted that in the
> lives of these people. Life does not owe any of us zilch. Things are
> temporal. Will Mamburay's faith persuade others behind to wake up, not a
> fat chance. As we speak, Uncle Nana (to some) have stepped up his game on
> the brownies. Lamin, this is between friends - Yaya and Mamburay and am
> sure Kelifa Yhi are doing their rounds scheming a baalou ceremony. What
> else is going on that we need to talk about?
>
> Joe
>
>  ------------------------------
> Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2013 20:33:10 +0000
> From: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: [G_L] BAIL IN GAMBIA AND SOUTH AFRICA
> To: [log in to unmask]
>
>  OSCAR PISTORIOUS                    South African
>
>      South African sports icon
>      killed a human being
>      charged with premeditated murder
>      BAIL SET AT Sterling £73,000 (estimated)
>
>
>
> MAMBURAY NJIE                          Gambian
>        Cabinet Minister / senior civil servant   (until recently)
>       allegations unknown/unspecified/speculative
>       charged with no offence
>       BAIL SET AT Sterling £300,000 (estimated)
>
>
> Any suggestions/reactions on the bail regime in The Gambia?
>
>
>
>
> LJDarbo
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