From Wikipedia:

*Modernism* is a philosophical <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philosophy>,
religious <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Modernism_in_the_Catholic_Church>,
and art movement <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Art_movement> that arose
from broad transformations in Western society
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Western_world> during the late 19th and
early 20th centuries. The movement reflected a desire for the creation of
new forms of art, philosophy, and social organization which reflected the
newly emerging industrial world
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Industrial_society>, including features such
as urbanization <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Urbanization>, architecture,
new technologies, and war. Artists attempted to depart from traditional
forms of art, which they considered outdated or obsolete. The poet Ezra
Pound <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ezra_Pound>'s 1934 injunction to "Make
it New" was the touchstone of the movement's approach.

Modernist innovations included abstract art
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abstract_art>, the stream of consciousness
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stream_of_consciousness> novel, montage
cinema <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Montage_(filmmaking)>, atonal
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atonality> and twelve-tone
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Twelve-tone_technique> music, divisionist
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Divisionism> painting and modern architecture
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Modern_architecture>.


Which bit of this had any particular connection with Hitler and Stalin?

Peter

On Thu, 15 Feb 2024 at 19:26, Dan Bloom <[log in to unmask]> wrote:

> :)
>
> There is no turning away from the fact that modernism failed.  Hitler and
> Stalin, ironically, were high water marks.   Ideologies on steroids.
>
> Dan
>
> On Feb 15, 2024, at 2:21 PM, Peter Philippson <[log in to unmask]>
> wrote:
>
> Phil,
>
> Show me some left violence in Britain or the USA that comes anywhere near
> the killing of people in a synagogue, the threat to hang Pelosi, the
> insurrection on Jan 6th, etc.
>
> Modernism failed: it produced the United Nations, the Geneva Convention,
> the National Health Service, gay liberation.  The 'post-secular' produced
> Putin's, Modi's and Iran's religious bigotry, and the bigotry of the
> fundamentalist Christian and Jewish churches  Just saying it doesn't make
> it true.  Show me a modernist who wants to kill people who disagree with
> them, to fight a war against civilians etc.
>
> That's the trouble with religion: start with wonder at the universe, and
> end up killing people.
>
> Peter
>
> On Thu, 15 Feb 2024 at 19:12, Philip Brownell <[log in to unmask]>
> wrote:
>
>> Dear John,
>> Are you a crazy leftist? I doubt it.
>>
>> The real issue I suspect for you is in the assertions I’ve made before
>> about post-secularism and its implications for the ideas inherent to the
>> Enlightenment. Given that you value the Enlightenment, at any given moment,
>> depending on the crowd and event, you might even find yourself standing up
>> against left leaning violence (violence here to include intimidation of
>> people and aggressive interruption of their free speech).
>>
>> I could get into very tall grass and go on and on and on trying to
>> present the argument for post-secularism and it’s implications for
>> politics, international relations, economics, sociology, psychology (as in
>> research), and psychotherapy.  I would not be able to do the topic justice
>> in this limited media (email).  I am writing a book about it. But that’s
>> going to be completed later on.  If you want to read about the topic, try
>> the following:
>>
>>
>>    - Post-Secular Society (Mynas, Lassandder, & Utriainen (Eds).
>>    Routledge, 2012
>>    - Explorations in Post-Secular Metaphysics. (Bengtson). Palgrave
>>    McMillan, 2015
>>    - Post-Secularism and International Relations, (Mavelli & Wilson, in
>>    Routledge Handbook of Religion and Politics) Routledge, 2023 (available
>>    online through the university of Groningen—
>>    https://core.ac.uk/reader/148314810)
>>    - Enter the Post-Secular (Rethinking the Secular), by Michele Dillon (
>>    https://tif.ssrc.org/2012/08/16/enter-the-post-secular/)
>>
>>
>> As I said, the subject is huge and not simple.  That is post-secularism
>> could just as easily be seen to champion ideas inherent to the
>> Enlightenment. But it is no uncommon to see people questioning some of the
>> ideas of the Enlightenment that resulted in modernity, because modernity
>> failed. We see, for instance, Husserl writing against what some these days
>> would call “scientism” and others just plain old positivism (which he also
>> identified with a naturalistic attitude). That attitude is still alive in
>> experimental psychology.
>>
>> I am attaching three documents some may find interesting. All this
>> “stuff” relates to the updating of the Enlightenment.
>>
>> Phil
>>
>> ______________ Gstalt-L is an independent eCommunity of people interested
>> in gestalt therapy theory and its various applications. Its public archives
>> can be found at
>> http://listserv.icors.org/scripts/wa-ICORS.exe?A0=GSTALT-L, and
>> subscriptions can be managed by clicking on "Subscriber's Corner," which is
>> found at the archives.
>> ______________ Gstalt-L is an independent eCommunity of people interested
>> in gestalt therapy theory and its various applications. Its public archives
>> can be found at
>> http://listserv.icors.org/scripts/wa-ICORS.exe?A0=GSTALT-L, and
>> subscriptions can be managed by clicking on "Subscriber's Corner," which is
>> found at the archives.
>> ______________ Gstalt-L is an independent eCommunity of people interested
>> in gestalt therapy theory and its various applications. Its public archives
>> can be found at
>> http://listserv.icors.org/scripts/wa-ICORS.exe?A0=GSTALT-L, and
>> subscriptions can be managed by clicking on "Subscriber's Corner," which is
>> found at the archives.
>>
>>
>> On Feb 13, 2024, at 10:00 AM, john wymore <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>>
>> ATTN:  Phil
>>
>>
>>
>> Oh my goodness. Am I one?  Could be, I guess.  After all, I live in and
>> am a citizen of what is known as a liberal democracy.  It is that because
>> it was founded on principles of The Enlightenment which are said to be
>> secularism, reason, social juistice, tolerance . The Constitution , its
>> Preamble, and the Declaration of Independance codifiy them.  The
>> Revolution, the Civl War, the Civil Rights Movement, the Equal Rights
>> Amendment (which I think has still not been ratified) represent our moral
>> commitmenmt. And confrom our liberal values. So any American loyal and
>> committed to those values is just a middle of the road American, a
>> centrist.   What exactly then is a crazy leftist ?
>>
>> JW
>> ______________ Gstalt-L is an independent eCommunity of people interested
>> in gestalt therapy theory and its various applications. Its public archives
>> can be found at
>> http://listserv.icors.org/scripts/wa-ICORS.exe?A0=GSTALT-L, and
>> subscriptions can be managed by clicking on "Subscriber's Corner," which is
>> found at the archives.
>>
>>
>> ______________ Gstalt-L is an independent eCommunity of people interested
>> in gestalt therapy theory and its various applications. Its public archives
>> can be found at
>> http://listserv.icors.org/scripts/wa-ICORS.exe?A0=GSTALT-L, and
>> subscriptions can be managed by clicking on "Subscriber's Corner," which is
>> found at the archives.
>
>
>
> --
> Peter (Philippson)
> [log in to unmask]
> ______________ Gstalt-L is an independent eCommunity of people interested
> in gestalt therapy theory and its various applications. Its public archives
> can be found at
> http://listserv.icors.org/scripts/wa-ICORS.exe?A0=GSTALT-L, and
> subscriptions can be managed by clicking on "Subscriber's Corner," which is
> found at the archives.
>
>
> ______________ Gstalt-L is an independent eCommunity of people interested
> in gestalt therapy theory and its various applications. Its public archives
> can be found at
> http://listserv.icors.org/scripts/wa-ICORS.exe?A0=GSTALT-L, and
> subscriptions can be managed by clicking on "Subscriber's Corner," which is
> found at the archives.



-- 
Peter (Philippson)
[log in to unmask]

______________
Gstalt-L is an independent eCommunity of people interested in gestalt therapy theory and its various applications. Its public archives can be found at http://listserv.icors.org/scripts/wa-ICORS.exe?A0=GSTALT-L, and subscriptions can be managed by clicking on "Subscriber's Corner," which is found at the archives.